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Old 09-13-2011, 09:49 AM   #931
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I will reiterate: you are wrong!
Psst, don't waste your time.
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Old 09-13-2011, 10:00 AM   #932
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Originally Posted by punkin View Post
I will reiterate: you are wrong!
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Originally Posted by jrmasm View Post
Psst, don't waste your time.
http://www.usnews.com/education/best...officials-2012

U.S. News will be offering category-specific badges for the 2012 Best Colleges rankings. These badges will be available to the highly ranked colleges for promotional purposes. Wright's Media is handling all badge distribution and licensing for use in electronic media, print media, and reprints; a fee will be charged for all such uses

So, you pay a fee for the data collection process AND a fee if you want to use any of the ranking information in your literature--how is this not paying for the rankings????
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Old 09-13-2011, 10:03 AM   #933
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Ok, I know it's a long shot but anyone have any good suggestions for an archaeology program? DD has a pretty narrow list since there aren't a ton of programs. Her dream school is Wash. U. in St. Louis. She has some state schools on her list but I'd love for her to add 1-2 more private schools to her list since I think they can offer better merit aid.
Bryn Mawr has a good archaeology program...at least it did when I went there.

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Old 09-13-2011, 10:05 AM   #934
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For bystanders who are interested, here is an article about the US News Survey (and other university ranking polls) in today's Chronicle of Higher Education: http://chronicle.com/article/How-to-...nkings/128928/ (The Chronicle is a subscription trade weekly for academe; if you do not subscribe personally you may be able to reach the full text if you log in through a university or public library system journals account that you have access to.) The article is by M.N. Bastedo, who is on the Education faculty at the Univ. of Michigan.

Obviously, I cannot quote the entire article, but here are some snips:

Quote:
...
This week college administrators will parse U.S. News & World Report'sannual college rankings with the careful attention of Talmudic scholars. Institutions at the top of the rankings will blithely declare the scores unimportant. Those even a few places below will say their placements do not recognize their institution's unique form of excellence. Faculty and administrators everywhere will decry U.S. News's influence.

Every spring, presidents, provosts, and admissions deans receive a survey fromthe magazine, asking them to rate all the institutions in their category from 1 (marginal) to 5 (distinguished). About half will respond—a percentage that has declined nearly every year. Then the scores are averaged and reported on the 1 to 5 scale. The reputation scores are one part of the rankings, along with other factors like graduation rates.A similar process is used for rating graduate schools. ...
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...
There is also a clear conflict of interest here: College leaders are being asked to evaluate their competitors, and suspicious cases have been revealed. A copy of the University of Florida president J. Bernard Machen's survey, obtained by The Gainesville Sun in 2009, showed that he had rated his university equivalent to Harvard, Princeton, and Yale Universities, and none of the other Florida public universities even made it into the second category ("strong"). ...
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...
To test that idea, I conducted two studies with Nicholas A. Bowman, an assistant professor of higher education at Bowling Green State University. In the first study, we gleaned all the U.S. News published data on colleges from 1989 to 2006, including the composite reputation scores. We wanted to see if people filling out the reputation survey were influenced by previous reputation scores and rankings. We found no evidence that reputation scores had any influence on future rankings—but previous rankings did. Thus, over time, the reputation score moved closer and closer to the overall ranking, making ranking and reputation scores less and less independent. Rankings became reputations. ...
THIS is why a lot of schools are no longer participating in the US News survey; the thing is slanted because of the personal bias of the respondents. No school has ever been asked to pay to be included in the survey, but for those schools that rank high in the results, there is a lot of pressure from the magazine to buy ad space in the survey issue, and to buy the rights to use the aforementioned "badge". Some do, and some don't, but those who do generally value the survey more for the exposure that the interest in the issue gives to them.

Last edited by NotUrsula; 09-13-2011 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 09-13-2011, 10:05 AM   #935
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Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
http://www.usnews.com/education/best...officials-2012

U.S. News will be offering category-specific badges for the 2012 Best Colleges rankings. These badges will be available to the highly ranked colleges for promotional purposes. Wright's Media is handling all badge distribution and licensing for use in electronic media, print media, and reprints; a fee will be charged for all such uses

So, you pay a fee for the data collection process AND a fee if you want to use any of the ranking information in your literature--how is this not paying for the rankings????
Read your own link. There is no charge for the ranking. If the particular college wants to use the "badge" it its own promotional literature, then they have to pay. The rankings themselves are independent.
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Old 09-13-2011, 10:06 AM   #936
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These "rankings" are helpful to a point but keep in mind that colleges pay big bucks to get listed in this "ranking".
No they don't.
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Old 09-13-2011, 10:08 AM   #937
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Yes, they do. One of the universities around here used to be ranked in that poll. There was an article in the paper about how they stopped PAYING to be included in the rankings because of budget cuts. It is simply paid advertising for the college--just like Under Armour or some other company buying an ad in the magazine.
The college may have eliminated a position which supplied all the data required, but schools are not paying for this. Trust me. I do not always agree with the methodology the surveys use, but the schools are not paying to be listed. You in one sentence libeled US News.
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Old 09-13-2011, 10:09 AM   #938
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Originally Posted by NotUrsula View Post
For bystanders who are interested, here is an article about the US News Survey (and other university ranking polls) in today's Chronicle of Higher Education: http://chronicle.com/article/How-to-...nkings/128928/ (The Chronicle is a subscription trade weekly for academe; if you do not subscribe personally you may be able to reach the full text if you log in through a university or public library system journals account that you have access to.) The article is by M.N. Bastedo, who is on the Education faculty at the Univ. of Michigan.

Obviously, I cannot quote the entire article, but here are some snips:







THIS is why a lot of schools are no longer participating in the US News survey; the thing is slanted because of the personal bias of the respondents. No school has ever been asked to pay to be included in the rankings, but for those schools that rank high in the results, there is a lot of pressure from the magazine to buy ad space in the survey issue. Some do, and some don't, but those who do generally value the survey more for the exposure that the interest in the issue gives to them.
This is 100% true. Furthermore, the ranking numbers can be manipulated by the schools to some extent by emphasizing certain heavily weighted aspects. I do not think the rankings are that valuable on an individual college level (I do think they are very helpful in the general sense of where a college is viewed) but golfgal's assertion is just wrong. No one pays to be ranked.
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Old 09-13-2011, 10:09 AM   #939
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I don't see how paying someone to compile the data and then paying a fee to use the results in literature is the same as paying for the rankings. If the school does not want to pay the data fee, then sure, they won't be ranked. However, that does not mean that the schools who do pay for the data are not worthy of their rankings. And why would you not want to budget monies to be able to use the ranking in your literature?

This is how they say they make sure the rankings are accurate.

http://www.usnews.com/education/blog...kings-and-data
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Old 09-13-2011, 10:10 AM   #940
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If this is the "evidence," golfgal is reading something that isn't there. They are selling a marketing package for AFTER the colleges have been chosen.

If colleges were actually paying for being on the US News list, people outside Minnesota would know and a high ranking wouldn't generate nearly the excitement that it does. The whole idea is ludricous. Do you think Harvard wants or needs to pay to be number 1?
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Old 09-13-2011, 10:28 AM   #941
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Originally Posted by StephMK View Post
Ok, I know it's a long shot but anyone have any good suggestions for an archaeology program? DD has a pretty narrow list since there aren't a ton of programs. Her dream school is Wash. U. in St. Louis. She has some state schools on her list but I'd love for her to add 1-2 more private schools to her list since I think they can offer better merit aid.
"American archaeology is anthropology or it is nothing at all" (Willey and Phillips)

I am an anthropologist with a concentration in bioarch.

If she wants to work in Archaeology, she will most likely need at least one advanced degree. BS jobs are out there, but they are few and far between. I would recommend going to any "good" college with an Anth program and getting a BS of Anthropology and a minor in Arch, if its offered. When she goes on to graduate school she will specialize in what sort of Arch she wants, but she will have an invaluable resource in her anthropological education.

I would also suggest that she be working now on building a background in a language. Any language, but a lot of preference in some universities (like Vanderbilt) is given to Spanish or Portuguese. Many graduate programs require a language proficiency.

And no, golf gal, palaeontology is not "close enough" archaeology. My goodness.
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Last edited by Sparx; 09-13-2011 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 09-13-2011, 10:31 AM   #942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
http://www.usnews.com/education/best...officials-2012

U.S. News will be offering category-specific badges for the 2012 Best Colleges rankings. These badges will be available to the highly ranked colleges for promotional purposes. Wright's Media is handling all badge distribution and licensing for use in electronic media, print media, and reprints; a fee will be charged for all such uses

So, you pay a fee for the data collection process AND a fee if you want to use any of the ranking information in your literature--how is this not paying for the rankings????
You are wrong.

Please cite where it says the schools pay a fee for the data collection process. Also I don't believe the schools pay anything to use the ranking information. Only if they want to use the "badge". That's quite different.

Read your own link.
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Old 09-13-2011, 10:37 AM   #943
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When my older kids were going through the college process, I don't think there was a single school that couldn't find something to be "ranked" about.

The lists are helpful for certain purposes, but like other posters have said, the flaws in their methodology have been well-publicized.
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Old 09-13-2011, 10:38 AM   #944
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When my older kids were going through the college process, I don't think there was a single school that couldn't find something to be "ranked" about.

The lists are helpful for certain purposes, but like other posters have said, the flaws in their methodology have been well-publicized.
and again...these lists are helpful...to a point...
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Old 09-13-2011, 10:42 AM   #945
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DSs college was once the #1 party school in Playboy magazine, I wonder if they had to pay something for that little honor....
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