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Old 02-27-2011, 12:16 AM   #211
allison443
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Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
You have been saying this for years so curiosity finally got the better of me. I looked up on the college boards website the "average" student that gets accepted at the NC State Universities and quite honestly, their numbers are awful. Most of the state U's there accept kids with under 20's on their ACT's, the ok schools accept kids with under 24 and your "best" school has a high end of 27. I don't think that is even close to good, sorry. Most private schools won't even look at you if you don't have AT LEAST a 24 on your ACT and many that number is over 30. From what you are saying and the number of kids that don't make it into your schools REALLY have me wondering... . Now, it very well may be that the private schools in NC are even worse (I only looked at a couple of those and their numbers weren't any better) but your state schools don't compare to the private schools in most of the rest of the country. SAT scores you see the same results.
I really don't understand you lumping "private schools" in one group and "public schools" in another group. That really makes no sense, as there are highly selective privates and highly selective publics, as well as publics where pretty much everyone can get in, and privates where pretty much everyone can get in.

If you look at the top 50 colleges in the US, the list contains both private and public schools.

Your categorization of academic quality between schools solely on the basis of whether they are "private" or "public" is extremely flawed. Why do you do that? Is your kid at a private school? Are the public universities in MN not considered good and that's what you're familiar with?

Your oldest child goes to school in Minnesota, right? It sounds like you are expanding your search beyond Minnesota for your next two kids. I'm sure you will learn a lot! Believe me there is a lot to learn! I have one more kid coming up to college, and it seems things change every few years! That's why I'm on this thread, trying to stay current....

Last edited by allison443; 02-27-2011 at 12:26 AM.
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Old 02-27-2011, 12:18 AM   #212
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It's a shame this thread is going to turn into something ugly but neither of you are very objective or willing to bend on your opinions and I see this in thread after thread.

For the record, none of these opinions are true.

UNC-Chapel Hill is a highly ranked public university and one of the best schools in the country. There is no way you would be accepted at Chapel Hill with a 27 ACT.

State is probably the next best public school.

UNC-G and NCA&T are both large public universities - both excellent in their own ways and both offering many unique and excellent programs.

Asheville, Charlotte, Wilmington, Appalachian, Eastern Carolina and Western Carolina are mid-level public universities and colleges in the public system. All reasonably good, all offering many excellent specialty programs - none considered "top" schools.

The rest of the schools in the public NC system are either specialty arts, historically black or niche. Again, all good options for the right student - none difficult to get into.

There are three excellent private schools in NC - Duke, Wake Forest and Davidson. All top-rated, all extremely competitive and very difficult to get into.

There are several mid-level private schools in NC - again, all with good programs but none terribly renowned. Although I would probably not put Elon into that category - it's becoming more well known and is increasingly improving its program and its student body profile.
Nice try, DVC Liz!! However, I fear it may be futile...
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Old 02-27-2011, 12:20 AM   #213
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golfgal -- You never cease to amaze me.
I really don't get it. All MrsPete has said in prior threads is that, in her experience working with students all these years, the cases where students get enough merit money at private schools comparable to the publics, to make the private school less expensive than the public, those cases are the exceptions, not the norm. Duke, for example, is not known for tremendous amounts of merit aid. And Chapel Hill is something like $6,000/year tuition.

In our state, I believe that tends to be true as well. I think we have 4 publics in the top 100 of all publics/privates. At $10,000/year tuition, it's hard for any private without a huge endowment (and, let's face it, most kids don't have a shot at those schools) to beat that in merit aid. Chances are, that private won't be comparably ranked.

That's all that's being said. I don't know why it's such a bone of contention for golfgal.
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Old 02-27-2011, 12:26 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by allison443 View Post
Nice try, DVC Liz!! However, I fear it may be futile...
I hope you think my assessment - which after all is just my personal opinion - is somewhat accurate.

I think really the basic idea is that NC, on average, has a pretty strong and comprehensive public university system. No, there aren't many that would be competitive against a really good good private school, but there are several good options that most average NC high school graduates could reasonably expect to be admitted to and find success at (I know I'm ending that with a preposition, sorry).

And the costs are fairly reasonable, too.

All things being equal, if I had a talented student and she could get into ANY school in NC, we would pick:

Davidson
Duke (this pains me to admit, as a Tar Heel grad)
Wake Forest/Chapel Hill (tie)
Elon
State

I did want to mention another nice small private school - Guilford College in Greensboro. It has an excellent reputation - a Quaker background so it has a certain vibe - but for the right student it's a great fit and has some wonderful things going for it.
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Old 02-27-2011, 12:34 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by allison443 View Post
I really don't understand you lumping "private schools" in one group and "public schools" in another group. That really makes no sense, as there are highly selective privates and highly selected publics, as well as publics where pretty much everyone can get in, and privates where pretty much everyone can get in.

If you look at the top 50 colleges in the US, the list contains both private and public schools.

Your categorization of academic quality between schools solely on the basis of whether they are "private" or "public" is extremely flawed. Why do you do that? Is your kid at a private school? Are the public universities in MN not considered good and that's what your familiar with?

Your oldest child goes to school in Minnesota, right? It sounds like you are expanding your search beyond Minnesota for your next two kids. I'm sure you will learn a lot! Believe me there is a lot to learn! I have one more kid coming up to college, and it seems things change every few years! That's why I'm on this thread, trying to stay current....
I think she just keeps trying to remind people that the cost of attendance at a private may actually end up being less than the cost of attendance at a state school. And this is true. I don't think anyone disputes that or has a problem with that.

She just seems to have a problem with the other side of the coin. Some states have very highly ranked public universities where the cost of attendance is generally going to be less than most privates, even with hefty merit aid offered by the privates. There aren't many privates ranked higher than UVA or William and Mary or Chapel Hill that would offer cost of attendance lower if you're in-state. I would certainly pay more for Harvard than for UVA.

Both of the above can be true at the same time. I don't understand why she tries so hard to prove it's not.
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Old 02-27-2011, 12:54 AM   #216
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I think she just keeps trying to remind people that the cost of attendance at a private may actually end up being less than the cost of attendance at a state school. And this is true. I don't think anyone disputes that or has a problem with that.

She just seems to have a problem with the other side of the coin. Some states have very highly ranked public universities where the cost of attendance is generally going to be less than most privates, even with hefty merit aid offered by the privates. There aren't many privates ranked higher than UVA or William and Mary or Chapel Hill that would offer cost of attendance lower if you're in-state. I would certainly pay more for Harvard than for UVA.

Both of the above can be true at the same time. I don't understand why she tries so hard to prove it's not.
I also want to point out that many of the top privates only give need-based financial aid. Around here, many families we know don't qualify for financial aid. So it comes down to paying out of pocket for a good private (that doesn't give you aid) at 50K, a state school at around 25K (in NJ), or an out of state state school, at around 35-38K, which is still cheaper than the full-cost private school. Yes, kids can get merit scholarships, but to get a big merit award you usually need to be at the top of the applicant pool, and that may not be the right fit, kwim?

I know Golfgal has said she knows people at the top schools, and they are all paying less than half, so I guess they're all getting need-based financial aid. Great! But some people don't qualify for financial aid. Plenty of posters here on the dis are in that situation.

Some posters just don't seem to understand that you may be better off going to a well known state school than a private.
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Old 02-27-2011, 01:42 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by allison443 View Post

I know Golfgal has said she knows people at the top schools, and they are all paying less than half, so I guess they're all getting need-based financial aid. Great! But some people don't qualify for financial aid. Plenty of posters here on the dis are in that situation.
And less than half is still more than I'd pay in-state. I did do research into the private schools that offered the programs my son was looking at. There really was no case where the private had a better program and/or offered substantial money to bring the costs down to what I'd pay in-state for a better-ranked program. Sometimes it works out that way and sometimes it doesn't.

But if you think that UNC Chapel Hill is not "even close to good" or that Davidson, Duke and Wake Forest "weren't any better", then, honestly, you are stunningly ill-informed.
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Old 02-27-2011, 06:26 AM   #218
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For some this may be a new term but Duke is referred to as the University of New Jersey at Durham because of the higher number of (elite?) Northerners who attend.

While I am not a Duke basketball fan (PUKE!), the school itself has a outstanding academic reputation.

UNC Chapel Hill also has outstanding academic reputation.

Now to be honest, NC State is a notch (or two) below and I would put it the same class as WVU. It certainly is not in the same State School class as a Penn State (a top university public or private).

I moved to NC from Boston and while no two schools are going to match MIT and Harvard, I think the overall quality of the Colleges and Universities in the extended Triangle area of NC are just as good as Boston.
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Old 02-27-2011, 06:42 AM   #219
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My friend's son is a freshman at Carnegie Mellon. He is an English major. He LOVES it and is doing very well there. He got a very good financial package, and they are paying less than they would at a state university. He plays bag pipes for them as well, so that might have something to do with his acceptance.
This is really interesting--DS13 also plays the bagpipes. He just got his Highland Pipes for Christmas. It's one of the few things he takes very seriously right now--smart kid, grades are currently in the toilet, what can I say? We're hoping he turns himself around--it's an "effort" thing, kid will probably ace his SAT's while simultaneously flunking chemistry.

Anyway, I'm curious if you know of schools that might be of particular interest to a bagpiper. It's an angle I'd never considered for him until I read your post. He's kind of a homebody kid, so would likely stay in New England. If you wouldn't mind asking yoru friend for a few potential school recommendations, I'd be eternally grateful.

P.S. My son's only in 8th grade, plenty of time for him to turn the grade thing around...or not.
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Old 02-27-2011, 07:08 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
You have been saying this for years so curiosity finally got the better of me. I looked up on the college boards website the "average" student that gets accepted at the NC State Universities and quite honestly, their numbers are awful. Most of the state U's there accept kids with under 20's on their ACT's, the ok schools accept kids with under 24 and your "best" school has a high end of 27. I don't think that is even close to good, sorry. Most private schools won't even look at you if you don't have AT LEAST a 24 on your ACT and many that number is over 30. From what you are saying and the number of kids that don't make it into your schools REALLY have me wondering... . Now, it very well may be that the private schools in NC are even worse (I only looked at a couple of those and their numbers weren't any better) but your state schools don't compare to the private schools in most of the rest of the country. SAT scores you see the same results.
Do you have Naviance?
For my daughter who is in a local prep school here in GA we can look up schools and see what GPA the students from our school had to get in to colleges.
So I can look up schools and see what the AVERAGE GPA and ACT or SAT was from just our students that got into schools and also how many applied and were turned down

For UNC Chapel Hill it was a 32 ACT and a 97 GPA
For UNC Asheville it was a 26 ACT and a 89 GPA
For Duke it was a 32 ACT and a 97.5 GPA
For Wake Forest it was a 29 and a 92 GPA

I think the numbers for the easier UNC schools are pulling down the numbers you are looking at for the average

We would be delighted if our daughter got into UNC Chapel Hill.
It may be a bit big for her though
She is also interested in William and Mary and maybe UVA -all of these state schools would be reaches.
She is also interested in going further North -but finances might prohibit that
We will not qualify for aid.
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Old 02-27-2011, 07:15 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by clarabelle View Post
Do you have Naviance?
For my daughter who is in a local prep school here in GA we can look up schools and see what GPA the students from our school had to get in to colleges.
So I can look up schools and see what the AVERAGE GPA and ACT or SAT was from just our students that got into schools and also how many applied and were turned down

For UNC Chapel Hill it was a 32 ACT and a 97 GPA
For UNC Asheville it was a 26 ACT and a 89 GPA
For Duke it was a 32 ACT and a 97.5 GPA
For Wake Forest it was a 29 and a 92 GPA

I think the numbers for the easier UNC schools are pulling down the numbers you are looking at for the average

We would be delighted if our daughter got into UNC Chapel Hill.
It may be a bit big for her though
She is also interested in William and Mary and maybe UVA -all of these state schools would be reaches.
She is also interested in going further North -but finances might prohibit that
We will not qualify for aid.
Hey, just for fun can you look up the stats for some of the FL State schools for me? In particular: FGCU, UF, USF, FSU, UCF. I realize this would just be from your high school but it would be interesting none the less.
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Old 02-27-2011, 07:17 AM   #222
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I will look -but if no one has applied or I think only one has it won't be listed -I am not quite sure how that works

Give me a second
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Old 02-27-2011, 07:22 AM   #223
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I have to disagree with the "excellent price" in most cases. I know that Mrs. Pete has had a different experience but in our area if you are an above average student or better, so a 3.5 or better (on a 4.0 scale) you are almost guaranteed to pay less at the private schools here then you are at any of the state schools simply because they just have more money to give--ESPECIALLY in this economy. Even a student with a "B" average is going to pay about the same for a private school as they are for a state school. Most of the private schools here will meet your need, so if your EFC is $20,000 and a state school costs $20,000, you pay $20,000. If your EFC is $20,000 and the private school is $40,000, you pay $20,000 and probably a bit less because you are able to work with the financial aid department a bit more. This is why my first piece of advice on college shopping is do NOT shop on price until the financial aid package comes through because until then you have no idea which school costs more then the other.
DD's experience so far is that the one out-of-state state school gave as much as it could in scholarship money (and this is also a school that isn't crazy expensive for out-of-state). The 2 out-of-state private schools offers differ wildly...one gave a WOW package, the other was not nearly so generous. The WOW package puts that school on the same financial plane as the out-of-state state and their yearly tuition costs would now be actually cheaper for us than our local community college.

That is true about shopping purely on the price alone. People shouldn't let the family's sticker-shock about high attendance costs ($38,000 in tuition?!? $50,000+ to attend... ) keep the student from even putting in an application. At the same time, though, the student should have a range or mix of different choices on their list - in-state state schools, safety schools, reach schools, private schools, schools known for generous merit-aid, schools known for generous need-based aid - because you never know what could happen, both with the school's aid package, with the family finances (the family bread-winner could lose their job, etc.) and with the student. A high school senior can change a lot between application-time (which for us was December 1st for scholarship-apps), kwim? Campus tours can change one's opinion of a school, senior grades can take a nose-dive, they can change their minds about what they want to major in (one of many to come I know), etc.



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I think she just keeps trying to remind people that the cost of attendance at a private may actually end up being less than the cost of attendance at a state school. And this is true. I don't think anyone disputes that or has a problem with that.

She just seems to have a problem with the other side of the coin. Some states have very highly ranked public universities where the cost of attendance is generally going to be less than most privates, even with hefty merit aid offered by the privates. There aren't many privates ranked higher than UVA or William and Mary or Chapel Hill that would offer cost of attendance lower if you're in-state. I would certainly pay more for Harvard than for UVA.

Both of the above can be true at the same time. I don't understand why she tries so hard to prove it's not.

Even though W&M does not have the exact program DD is interested in, the in-state tuition cost made it stupid *not* to apply there. We did a tour, she loved the campus, loved the vibe, loved how the tour was so well-run, she has family-members who are alumni and so now we're waiting for that school's decision (plus one other place) to arrive sometime before April 1st.

agnes!
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Old 02-27-2011, 07:26 AM   #224
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University of Florida- 92.77 GPA -ACT-30
Florida State -90.6 and 29 ACT

There weren't any listed for the rest -there is only about 50 kids per grade in her school so lots of schools that aren't going to be listed
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Old 02-27-2011, 07:50 AM   #225
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Public schools can offer great educations, but for some people they are not right. I am one of those people, I have looked at a few great publics and hated everyone because they were too big.
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