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Old 04-01-2013, 08:13 AM   #2221
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I too wonder about Rick and Michonne, can't say I'd be opposed to that.

I feel for those Woodbury people though, they thought they had it made, still somewhat free, flowers, sunshine, cookouts, only to find out they were being ruled by a psycho and now get to live in a dark prison. But at least it's pretty safe.

I think Carl needs a visit from Lori now, some of those things he said to Rick were really cold. Again, I think part of it, is he is just now starting to deal with having to shoot Lori, even though he probably doesn't realize it yet.
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:41 AM   #2222
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I felt like there was a connection between the Carl storyline and Andrea storyline. Carl pointed out 3 times when they didn't kill someone/something and so other people died. Andrea was the final example of that. She didn't kill the Governor and 27 people (including herself) died.

Kind of tired of the Governor storyline. Now we have a season of "where's the Governor" to look forward to. I would rather have a season where they travel to another part of the country to look for survivors. The provisions in that part of GA must be getting low.

The creators have said next season will focus on character development, like the Clear episode. Less mass ensemble stuff, more one on one. I expect to see at least 1 more love relationship develop.
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:44 AM   #2223
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When I heard that the death count would be 27 I figured that the bulk would be Woodbury people but I didn't expect them ALL (well - Andrea's kind of both) to be Woodbury people. And I sure didn't expect them ALL to die of the Governor's doing!! I thought at least 2 of Rick's group would go.

I also figured that Milton would die but ... wow. Kudos to him for at least finally trying to take out the governor. But Andrea.... SERIOUSLY?!?!!? She wants to stop. and. have. a. conversation. with Milton as he's dying!! Seriously??? Idiot. But I did find it.... interesting?.... appropriate?... enlightening?... can't find the right word - that Milton went from insisting that there was still a part of the human being left in the walkers to his dying request of "you're going to find something very sharp and stab me in the head with it." He finally understood in the end.
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:50 AM   #2224
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I couldn't believe the number of commercials last night. I should go back on my DVR and figure out how much was actually the episode (maybe 30 minutes?) and what was commercials. It was ridiculous!
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:23 AM   #2225
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I felt an edit in this ep - a big one. There was a hole somewhere. Maybe they filled it with commercials?

I totally agree! I felt the same way when I was watching it. In fact, I was actually wondering if more scenes had been shot to sort of fill in the gaps here and there...and then maybe the scenes were edited out later on for the sake of scheduling issues? It seemed like they (the writers) were skipping over some key stuff that they should have shown us like, for example, a scene where Daryl returns to the prison and tells everyone about Merle. Or a scene when the Governor corners Milton and brings him into the room to beat him up. And what had been going on with Andrea in the chair before Milton got to that room?

There were other things that seemed to be missing here and there too, but I'm blanking out on them at the moment.

In any case, to me it definitely felt like they left some stuff out and jumped ahead in the sequence of events to speed through the finale. I think that this finale should have been 2 hours - or at least 90 minutes.

There were way, way too many commercials - and it interrupts the tension and intensity of a show such as TWD when there are so many ads. I am guessing that the advertisers knew that TWD finale would be a huge ratings success and they paid big bucks to run their commercials. AMC, of course, had to agree and allow more of the ads in than usual.



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I don't think there is a lot of dating potential from the people that were left in Woodbury.

The dating potential is there now! In the comics, if I recall correctly from the general outline I read, Rick ended up hooking up with Andrea at some point down the line. Well, that could have been a reasonable option IF she had survived. That's obviously not going to happen now.

So, exit one potential hook-up for a male character. Enter another potential hook-up. It's no accident that there is one reasonably young, attractive brunette who was saved from the Woodbury camp (her name is Karen, I think??). And Tyreese's sister (her name is Sasha, isn't it?) is a young, pretty girl. There's the dating potential right there.

I guess my point is that - whether or not anyone actually hooks up romantically - in any TV show there has to be the 'potential,' and there has to be some male-female tension thrown in here and there. There have to be at least some viable options for the 'what if' scenarios.

Michonne is a definite option IF she is interested in any of the men (I didn't think she would be interested in them at first, which is why I wasn't counting her - but she could be a possibility for Rick!). But Carol is not enough of a possible 'romantic option' on her own, and she probably won't last much longer on the show. Plus, if we get a whole season of Rick, Daryl & Tyreese (the 3 male romantic leads, since Glenn is unavailable) only interacting with Carol, a bunch of old people and young kids, the ratings will drop! It was necessary to incorporate a couple more 'options' into the story and integrate them into the core group to create possibilities and tension every so often.
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:32 AM   #2226
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I have to say, I enjoyed the ending and was not disappointed in the episode. I was disturbed during the first half of the show at how dark it had gotten. David M. did a great job with the Governor's character -- he truly looked evil in this episode. Carl started turning into Shane.

I like how it ended. Gave a sense of humanity again -- complete opposite of the ending of Season Two. I felt that, for one of the few times in the series, there was a sense of hope again. Lori was no longer needed -- Rick turned back into the person he was prior to all of this happening. They aren't turning their back on people anymore. They didn't have to bring those folks from Woodbury to the prison.

I like that the Governor is still out there. I am sure that will bring some action to the beginning of Season Four.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:05 AM   #2227
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I totally agree! I felt the same way when I was watching it. In fact, I was actually wondering if more scenes had been shot to sort of fill in the gaps here and there...and then maybe the scenes were edited out later on for the sake of scheduling issues? It seemed like they (the writers) were skipping over some key stuff that they should have shown us like, for example, a scene where Daryl returns to the prison and tells everyone about Merle. Or a scene when the Governor corners Milton and brings him into the room to beat him up. And what had been going on with Andrea in the chair before Milton got to that room?

There were other things that seemed to be missing here and there too, but I'm blanking out on them at the moment.

In any case, to me it definitely felt like they left some stuff out and jumped ahead in the sequence of events to speed through the finale. I think that this finale should have been 2 hours - or at least 90 minutes.

There were way, way too many commercials - and it interrupts the tension and intensity of a show such as TWD when there are so many ads. I am guessing that the advertisers knew that TWD finale would be a huge ratings success and they paid big bucks to run their commercials. AMC, of course, had to agree and allow more of the ads in than usual.

I totally agree with you. I have no problem with how the episode ended but I had big issues with how disjointed it seemed. Way too much time was spent on Andrea and Milton. It was frustrating to the point that me and DH were both yelling at the TV (stop talking....pick up the darn pliers already, etc). It just drug on and on when she should have just picked them up and gotten lose first, then try to deal with Milton (alive or dead).
I even found the whole "using walkers to kill your enemy" storyline too redundant. You can do better then that Gov.

And my DH finally got up and left the room during the scene where the Gov. killed his army and no one even tried to shoot him. He said he was so frustrated with it that he can't watch anymore. Come on Allen, you just watched him gun down all his own people, you have a shot and you just stand there??????

Then they just seemed to gloss over what is going on at the prison, except for Carl. Nothing is said about what happened to Meryl (except Carol's one remark to Daryl). I expected Daryl to be changed in some way but he was acting the same as always, like nothing happened.

I also wondered where the Gov went and why it was so easy for them to just stroll into Woodbury, hang out in the torture room and then convince all those people to come back to the prison with them. Why wouldn't the Gov. have gone back to Woodbury. He thought his whole army was dead, he had no reason not to return and tell the people there that the rest of the group was killed at the prison. Why would he run???

I'm happy to see that for the most part, the two groups are together now. I'm looking forward to new storylines coming from that.
But the finale overall was a disappointment for me. Just too many questions...and not the cliff hanger type that you expect from a season finale. But the kind that make you feel like the episode was just thrown together without much thought

I wasn't frustrated enough to stop watching. I'll be right there with everyone else waiting for October. I think even though he said he was done with the show, DH will forget his frustration with it too and be back there watching with me in October
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:24 AM   #2228
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I miss Andrea. I'm sad and disappointed she was my favorite. I don't feel like watching next season.
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:02 PM   #2229
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Originally Posted by jetskigrl View Post
I totally agree with you. I have no problem with how the episode ended but I had big issues with how disjointed it seemed. Way too much time was spent on Andrea and Milton. It was frustrating to the point that me and DH were both yelling at the TV (stop talking....pick up the darn pliers already, etc). It just drug on and on when she should have just picked them up and gotten lose first, then try to deal with Milton (alive or dead).
I even found the whole "using walkers to kill your enemy" storyline too redundant. You can do better then that Gov.

And my DH finally got up and left the room during the scene where the Gov. killed his army and no one even tried to shoot him. He said he was so frustrated with it that he can't watch anymore. Come on Allen, you just watched him gun down all his own people, you have a shot and you just stand there??????

Then they just seemed to gloss over what is going on at the prison, except for Carl. Nothing is said about what happened to Meryl (except Carol's one remark to Daryl). I expected Daryl to be changed in some way but he was acting the same as always, like nothing happened.

I also wondered where the Gov went and why it was so easy for them to just stroll into Woodbury, hang out in the torture room and then convince all those people to come back to the prison with them. Why wouldn't the Gov. have gone back to Woodbury. He thought his whole army was dead, he had no reason not to return and tell the people there that the rest of the group was killed at the prison. Why would he run???

I'm happy to see that for the most part, the two groups are together now. I'm looking forward to new storylines coming from that.
But the finale overall was a disappointment for me. Just too many questions...and not the cliff hanger type that you expect from a season finale. But the kind that make you feel like the episode was just thrown together without much thought

I wasn't frustrated enough to stop watching. I'll be right there with everyone else waiting for October. I think even though he said he was done with the show, DH will forget his frustration with it too and be back there watching with me in October
Yes, yes, yes! You just brought up a lot of the points I had completely blanked out on in my earlier post. I knew there were other things I was wondering about while watching TWD last night - and even when watching it the second time - and yet, I forgot many of them! You just reminded me!

Andrea took way too long to pick up those pliers, and she kept pausing and chatting and all of that. I realize it's not an easy situation to be in, but it was as if she wasn't getting the urgency of it all!

You're right - now that you mention it, I think that the "using the walkers" tactic was kind of weak and, for a guy as diabolical as the Governor, there could have been a more creative plan to get rid of Milton and Andrea. That seemed like a cop out.

Yes, exactly! Why did no one try to shoot the Governor as he was mowing down all of his people?

I definitely think we should have had a scene showing Daryl arriving back at the prison and telling folks about what happened to his brother.

And you're right again - how did Rick manage to get the people of Woodbury to go with him so easily and quickly? THAT is the scene we should have had - Rick and crew explaining to the residents that they now have to go live in an uncomfortable prison when they've become accustomed to comfort because their leader is a maniac.

Why didn't the Governor go back to Woodbury (yet)? Did he assume that Rick and the gang would have set up shop there and would take him out as soon as he arrived (because he killed his army and only had 2 guys left to protect him)? Still, though, the Governor is crazy and maniacal enough to think he can win anyway, so I would have liked to hear him state why he wasn't going back to Woodbury (if, indeed, he wasn't) before driving off.

There just seemed to be a lot of loose ends left untied and gaps that needed to be filled in. I can totally understand the writers not wanting to kill off the Governor yet, and wanting to bring him back again another time. But the way in which he just sort of drove off and didn't say anything was weak.
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:15 PM   #2230
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For those who felt like something was missing ... there have been a few times on Talking Dead where the actors have referenced a scene, or scenes, that didn't make it to the final cut. Specifically, I remember when Laurie Holden (AKA "Andrea") was on and she referenced a scene between "Andrea" and "Daryl" that she felt added a lot to their story. She expressed that she hoped it made it to the DVD cut because it didn't make it to the television version.

That happens a lot and with most every TV show and movie. So much footage is shot but only so much can air due to time constraints. That's where you'll hear the term "Cutting Room Floor". It's footage that was cut. Once the media goes to DVD it can be added back in. That's how DVDs end up with Extras, Deleted Scenes, Bonus Content, and / or Director's Cut.
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:21 PM   #2231
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I am not surprised they didn't delve into Daryl coming back and talking about Merle. They did the same thing after he found Carol, he scooped her up, and that was pretty much the last we saw of it.
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:32 PM   #2232
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I liked parts and there were parts I did not like. I agree they tend to "gloss over" a lot. I like to see character interaction and responses to things, like how would they respond to Daryl coming back and telling them about Merle and them comforting him etc.

I liked how Milton died and the interaction between him and Andrea. It was frustrating though how she dragged out freeing herself. I chuckled when a pp mentioned her pedicure because the first thing I thought when they showed her feet was, "Is she wearing nail polish?" It looked like she had nude colored polish on.
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:49 PM   #2233
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Quote:
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For those who felt like something was missing ... there have been a few times on Talking Dead where the actors have referenced a scene, or scenes, that didn't make it to the final cut. Specifically, I remember when Laurie Holden (AKA "Andrea") was on and she referenced a scene between "Andrea" and "Daryl" that she felt added a lot to their story. She expressed that she hoped it made it to the DVD cut because it didn't make it to the television version.

That happens a lot and with most every TV show and movie. So much footage is shot but only so much can air due to time constraints. That's where you'll hear the term "Cutting Room Floor". It's footage that was cut. Once the media goes to DVD it can be added back in. That's how DVDs end up with Extras, Deleted Scenes, Bonus Content, and / or Director's Cut.
I just saw a gif going around (which I won't post here because it's pretty gory and probably not too DIS-friendly), of an alternate ending for Andrea that had her trapped in the chains that the Governor was setting up for Michonne (the ones she used for her pets), with a zombie Milton eating her alive, with blood spurting everywhere.

Milton is wearing his glasses in the clip, which he wasn't in the show. But the picture they showed of zombie Milton on Talking Dead did show him wearing his glasses, so I'm guessing the scene is something we'll see on the DVD.

One of my favorite deleted scenes on the DVDs is the scene from Season 2 where Dale curses out the preacher he finds on a working radio in one of the abandoned highway cars who was saying everyone deserved the apocalypse. That was great.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:02 PM   #2234
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Found a making-of clip from last night. There was definitely a longer Andrea-gets-eaten scene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aa4QrZu7hc

And Laurie Holden sounds incredibly bummed that this was her last show.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:08 PM   #2235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belle0101 View Post
For those who felt like something was missing ... there have been a few times on Talking Dead where the actors have referenced a scene, or scenes, that didn't make it to the final cut. Specifically, I remember when Laurie Holden (AKA "Andrea") was on and she referenced a scene between "Andrea" and "Daryl" that she felt added a lot to their story. She expressed that she hoped it made it to the DVD cut because it didn't make it to the television version.

That happens a lot and with most every TV show and movie. So much footage is shot but only so much can air due to time constraints. That's where you'll hear the term "Cutting Room Floor". It's footage that was cut. Once the media goes to DVD it can be added back in. That's how DVDs end up with Extras, Deleted Scenes, Bonus Content, and / or Director's Cut.
At my former job, one of our clients was the Motion Picture Editors Guild (we transcribed some of the interviews with editors for their newsletter/magazine) and another client was a company called Creative Planet, who brought us all sorts of interviews with editors and other people behind the scenes of TV & movies (including Gale Ann Hurd, who now works on TWD). I've never learned so much about the behind the scenes technical stuff and the different types of equipment used as I have when I worked at my former job! It wasn't the 'good' behind the scenes stuff - it was the boring stuff!

I still think that the omission of certain scenes from last night's finale was extra-liberal. It seemed to be overkill in leaving really important scenes out. The key is to not edit out scenes in such a way that will compromise the flow or logic of events, but I feel those elements were compromised. It would have at least been interesting to see how and when the Governor brought Milton to the room to beat him up. Leaving one scene out is one thing, but I felt that there were several highly relevant scenes cut out that could have warranted a 2-hour finale, or at least 90 minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elgerber View Post
I am not surprised they didn't delve into Daryl coming back and talking about Merle. They did the same thing after he found Carol, he scooped her up, and that was pretty much the last we saw of it.
It would have been nice to see Daryl telling the gang about his brother's demise, but, that said, I think a scene of Daryl telling the others about Merle was the least important omitted scene in terms of advancing the plot. I think that leaving out scenes where the Governor drags Milton to the room and where Rick talks to the people of Woodbury before bringing them back to the prison were crucial to the whole episode, and yet they were conspicuously missing.

I'm not sure why AMC couldn't just commit to a 90-minute or 2-hour finale. They must have made tons of dough in all of that endless advertising!



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I liked parts and there were parts I did not like. I agree they tend to "gloss over" a lot. I like to see character interaction and responses to things, like how would they respond to Daryl coming back and telling them about Merle and them comforting him etc.

I liked how Milton died and the interaction between him and Andrea. It was frustrating though how she dragged out freeing herself. I chuckled when a pp mentioned her pedicure because the first thing I thought when they showed her feet was, "Is she wearing nail polish?" It looked like she had nude colored polish on.
She prolonged freeing herself, that's for sure! She kept stopping, chatting, looking at Milton, etc. I was waiting for her to stop and take a nap mid-way through. It was like she was somehow not getting that she literally only had a few moments to escape. Then again, Andrea wanted to take her own life a while back, and Dale stopped her. And she was totally understanding and empathetic of Beth when she tried to do the same thing at the farm. So, I suppose that if anyone was willing to take their time with some pliers and risk certain death, it would be Andrea. I think she was always willing to 'go' if need be.
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