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Old 05-19-2013, 07:50 PM   #1
castleview
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Should alimony be abolished?

In light of the current anti-alimony bill being vetoed in Florida, it got me thinking. I didn't even know alimony still existed as few people I knew fought for it including my own mother who has been divorced well over 25 years. I guess I just assumed it was either a big lump sum or a temporary fix. I had no idea former spouses (man and women) were going broke over it and that second wives incomes are taken into account.

Curious what others thought.

My thoughts: there are certain circumstances where I can see alimony being in the picture for a while, but lifetime alimony sounds suspicious especially if the marriage was fairly short. I understand the difficulties women face getting back into the job market, but don't understand why alimony should be paid to anyone who has been divorced for decades.
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Old 05-19-2013, 07:55 PM   #2
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I think it depends. For example, if one spouse had a career so that the other one could stay home and raise a family, the stay at home spouse should get alimony. If one spouse worked so that the other spouse could go to school and get a lucrative job, yep, I believe in alimony. If someone was married soley to be "arm candy" and all that spouse's time and energy went into keeping up his/her looks and social graces, I believe that spouse should also get alimony.

For 25 years? Probably not unless there are other factors, but a spouse in those situations should get some sort of spousal support to get the spouse through school or other training and into a new career.
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Old 05-19-2013, 07:56 PM   #3
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My warehouse guy has a weird deal.

He sends his ex "maintenance" and then she sends him "child support". Why they couldn't just decide one owed the other "X" and the other mails no checks, I don't know.

But when she fails to send her checks for months on end, he isn't allowed to just deduct what she owes. Nope, he still has to send his in full. So, now thyre headed back to court
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Old 05-19-2013, 08:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumbo4x4 View Post
My warehouse guy has a weird deal.

He sends his ex "maintenance" and then she sends him "child support". Why they couldn't just decide one owed the other "X" and the other mails no checks, I don't know.

But when she fails to send her checks for months on end, he isn't allowed to just deduct what she owes. Nope, he still has to send his in full. So, now thyre headed back to court
My guess on this specific situation is that they are different for tax purposes. Child support is not included in the recipient's income, and is not tax deductible to the payer. Alimony is included in the recipient's income, and is tax deductible to the payer. Probably more than you wanted to know, don't know why I felt the need to chime in.
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Old 05-19-2013, 08:12 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by CupcakeKelly View Post
My guess on this specific situation is that they are different for tax purposes. Child support is not included in the recipient's income, and is not tax deductible to the payer. Alimony is included in the recipient's income, and is tax deductible to the payer. Probably more than you wanted to know, don't know why I felt the need to chime in.
No, it actually makes sense - in a twisted govt red tape sort of way
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:06 PM   #6
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No. I was married 12 years. In that time we moved to 6 different states to further my now ex-DHs career. Guess how well my career faired during all the moves & having 2 children?

My earning potential is 1/5 of his. Alimony has provided me (& in turn the children I have full custody of) with stability as I rebuild my career. My lifestyle is night & day from what it was.

So no, it is still necessary when they spouses have huge income differences. Until the lesser earning spouse can earn a living wage.

I do not believe in lifetime alimony.
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:11 PM   #7
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No. I was married 12 years. In that time we moved to 6 different states to further my now ex-DHs career. Guess how well my career faired during all the moves & having 2 children?

My earning potential is 1/5 of his. Alimony has provided me (& in turn the children I have full custody of) with stability as I rebuild my career. My lifestyle is night & day from what it was.

So no, it is still necessary when they spouses have huge income differences. Until the lesser earning spouse can earn a living wage.

I do not believe in lifetime alimony.
My mom was in a similar situation. Gave up a great job that would have given a pension to move and marry my ex-stepdad. When he cheated on her and they divorced, she was awarded alimony. She will receive it until/unless she moves in with someone or marries again.
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:35 PM   #8
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Each marriage and each divorce is so unique that I don't think it's possible to set one fair ironclad rule for or against alimony. The best I could come up with on my own is a rule of thumb that you probably ought not to be on the hook for more years of alimony than you were actually married, but I've already thought of a half dozen exceptions to that rule. Your best bet is to have a good prenup, and to put it in writing if you as a couple decide that one will sacrifice their career to stay with the kids while the other works and what you want to do about that if the relationship dissolves.
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Old 05-19-2013, 11:04 PM   #9
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Best solution...don't get divorced in the first place. I know that's not always realistic.

Bottom line, my rules would be simple:
You must go to marriage counseling for at least 1 year prior to getting a divorce (3 years if you have children), with no separation during this time, unless the marriage counselor recommends it, without either person asking.

If either person doesn't participate in the marriage counseling, they get nothing.

If someone cheats on the other person, the person who cheated is entitled to absolutely nothing, no child support (even if they somehow end up with custody, which would take a lot in my world for this situation), no alimony, no car payments, etc.

If someone entered the marriage under fraudulent pretenses, they also get nothing.



If one person was constantly drunk, again they get nothing.

If either person was convicted of a DUI ever in their life, you guessed it, they get nothing, not even custody or visitations. And absolutely no exceptions to this rule, it is hard and fast. If the other person is unfit, then the children should go to next of kin (again, no DUIs on their record). You are banned from public assistance (for life). If you are found living on the street, you automatically go to jail. Yes, that sounds extreme, but drunk driving is a MAJOR problem and needs to be stopped.

If you are here illegally (even if your kids are citizens), you get nothing and are automatically deported.

As for alimony, if both people were working, there would be no alimony for either party, no matter what the income of each is. There may be some extenuating circumstances, but not many.

There are other situations to, but these would be my basic rules. Aren't you glad I don't rule the world? LOL

I know that this sounds extreme, but seriously, I think it would reduce divorce rates, which are alarmingly high and lower divorce rates would result in a lot better world all around.
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Old 05-19-2013, 11:06 PM   #10
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My parents were married for 30+ years and my mom did everything for my dad. She deserves lifetime alimony; there are few jobs out there for women with no work experience that would actually sustain her to which she was accustomed. She doesn't even know how to turn on a computer; much less use one.
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Old 05-19-2013, 11:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmwade77 View Post
Best solution...don't get divorced in the first place. I know that's not always realistic.

Bottom line, my rules would be simple:
You must go to marriage counseling for at least 1 year prior to getting a divorce (3 years if you have children), with no separation during this time, unless the marriage counselor recommends it, without either person asking.

If either person doesn't participate in the marriage counseling, they get nothing.

If someone cheats on the other person, the person who cheated is entitled to absolutely nothing, no child support (even if they somehow end up with custody, which would take a lot in my world for this situation), no alimony, no car payments, etc.

If someone entered the marriage under fraudulent pretenses, they also get nothing.

If one person was constantly drunk, again they get nothing.

If either person was convicted of a DUI ever in their life, you guessed it, they get nothing, not even custody or visitations. And absolutely no exceptions to this rule, it is hard and fast. If the other person is unfit, then the children should go to next of kin (again, no DUIs on their record). You are banned from public assistance (for life). If you are found living on the street, you automatically go to jail. Yes, that sounds extreme, but drunk driving is a MAJOR problem and needs to be stopped.

If you are here illegally (even if your kids are citizens), you get nothing and are automatically deported.

As for alimony, if both people were working, there would be no alimony for either party, no matter what the income of each is. There may be some extenuating circumstances, but not many.

There are other situations to, but these would be my basic rules. Aren't you glad I don't rule the world? LOL

I know that this sounds extreme, but seriously, I think it would reduce divorce rates, which are alarmingly high and lower divorce rates would result in a lot better world all around.
Hypothetical of course - what if one person was drunk all the time because the other person was cheating...?
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Old 05-19-2013, 11:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmwade77 View Post
Best solution...don't get divorced in the first place. I know that's not always realistic.

Bottom line, my rules would be simple:
You must go to marriage counseling for at least 1 year prior to getting a divorce (3 years if you have children), with no separation during this time, unless the marriage counselor recommends it, without either person asking.

If either person doesn't participate in the marriage counseling, they get nothing.

If someone cheats on the other person, the person who cheated is entitled to absolutely nothing, no child support (even if they somehow end up with custody, which would take a lot in my world for this situation), no alimony, no car payments, etc.

If someone entered the marriage under fraudulent pretenses, they also get nothing.



If one person was constantly drunk, again they get nothing.

If either person was convicted of a DUI ever in their life, you guessed it, they get nothing, not even custody or visitations. And absolutely no exceptions to this rule, it is hard and fast. If the other person is unfit, then the children should go to next of kin (again, no DUIs on their record). You are banned from public assistance (for life). If you are found living on the street, you automatically go to jail. Yes, that sounds extreme, but drunk driving is a MAJOR problem and needs to be stopped.

If you are here illegally (even if your kids are citizens), you get nothing and are automatically deported.

As for alimony, if both people were working, there would be no alimony for either party, no matter what the income of each is. There may be some extenuating circumstances, but not many.

There are other situations to, but these would be my basic rules. Aren't you glad I don't rule the world? LOL

I know that this sounds extreme, but seriously, I think it would reduce divorce rates, which are alarmingly high and lower divorce rates would result in a lot better world all around.
Very glad you don't rule the world! In the real world this would not work.
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:29 AM   #13
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Every state has different laws. In my state the judges will only award alimony for three years, unless there are extenuating circumstances (which are spelled out). At the end of the three years the person receiving alimony has to petition the Court for an extension if they still think they need alimony. Alimony here is considered a "helping hand" to get a person back into the workforce and self-supporting. I've never seen a lifetime alimony award (I did divorce paralegal work for 25 years)
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:40 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmwade77 View Post

If you are here illegally (even if your kids are citizens), you get nothing and are automatically deported.

As for alimony, if both people were working, there would be no alimony for either party, no matter what the income of each is. There may be some extenuating circumstances, but not many.

.
I love these two! I am not a believer in alimony- I would never ever put myself in a position where I would depend on someone elses money and have none of my own. I see guys at work get divorced and have to give their wives half their pensions when they retire-many delay retiring hoping the ex will die first so they don't have to give up half their pensions! No way am I working 30 years to hand half my hard earned money over to someone that didn't work.
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Old 05-20-2013, 06:17 AM   #15
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I love these two! I am not a believer in alimony- I would never ever put myself in a position where I would depend on someone elses money and have none of my own. I see guys at work get divorced and have to give their wives half their pensions when they retire-many delay retiring hoping the ex will die first so they don't have to give up half their pensions! No way am I working 30 years to hand half my hard earned money over to someone that didn't work.
Wow. I work, I just don't get paid for it. I stayed home to raise our kids, I took care of things so DH didn't have to Including sick kids, Dr appts and such
I also saw men that he worked with, have wives that stayed home. They went out and cheated on their wives and you think that they shouldn't have to pay alimony?

I bet not all of the men you work with have 100% glowing reputations, I have seen these same situations, where they play the field and then just want their wives to walk away, after giving up their careers to raise kids.

I alos know that some women marry for money, and they have no intention of working and take all that they can get.

ETA. I guess I am lucky, my DH saw what I did as work and appreciates it. He also sees these same men that don't want to pay alimony, moan and complain when it is their turn to have the kids for the weekend, I guess what do yo expect form men who don't want a wife or kids around, just more hassle than they thought.

I pretty much lump them all into the same category.
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