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Old 08-27-2010, 10:48 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by ChrisFL View Post
There was problems because they didn't keep the attraction up to standards, the seacabs was closed years earlier and the rest of it was not kept up. Disney has done that many times, they'll neglect the older attractions (especially if they don't have a sponsor) until the attendance and rider satisfaction goes down then they have an excuse to tear it out and replace it.

That was a polar opposite approach to the brilliant designers who built EPCOT Center to try to at least partially fufull Walt's Legacy. Tearing out the educational and futuristic attractions to turn them into Fantasyland South is not the right direction.
This is the "chicken/egg" argument. Did they not perform maintenance because there was little guest interest? Or was there little guest interest becuase they didn't perform the maintenance.

All I know is that in the late 90's, when my wife and I would visit (long before we had kids..and, actually, before we even got married), Living Seas was usually dead. Everything seemed to be in working order, but the only line nearby was to eat in Coral Seas.

Once the Nemo overlay is complete, the place is always crowded. Not full, but there are actually PEOPLE in there, looking around. We usually have a short line (on a continuous loader, no less) to get on the intro portion, now. When the sea cabs were working...I never waited. Ever. And we travel similar times of year, just in case anyone is wondering, now and then.

And, again, I'm not suggesting the creation of "Fantasyland South". My initial (and I find it amusing that I've now become the de facto "Nemo" defender, when, really, that attraction had no part of my original point) point is that Phineas and Ferb actually fit the theme of JII pretty well. They're constantly using their imagination and science skills (psuedo-science, I'll gratn you) to solve problems. They actually DO fit, easily as well as Dreamfinder and Figment do (I know, sacrelidge!!). The only difference is that P&T were created for a Disney Channel cartoon, so they're raising the dander of the Epcot traditionalists.

I'm not suggesting a Mickey overlay to Ellen's Energy Adventure or that Goofy be added to Mission Space or that Donald be the new host of Spaceship Earth. I agree, in many cases, overlaying existing characters on the Epcot attractions wouldn't work.
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Old 08-27-2010, 10:53 AM   #62
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[QUOTE=Figment632;37987408]
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How does Soaring fit in FW? does Ellen's show anything futuristic? except for the last part of SE there's nothing futuristic, TT again not futuristic.
Basically 98% of attractions have really nothing to do with the future. And the ones that do, are mostly history lessons with a brief synopsis of what the future could be. So how does Nemo fit? Same as the rest of the attractions.
Your point is moot.[/QUOTE]

Nope read my next post FW is in the worse shape ever. Either change the name from FW to DIscovery World or start fixing these attractions.
ok I can agree on that.. But would take a major undertaking to make FW updated to anything that would remotely bring back a futuristic theme. Don't think they can do it seeing that we're in a middle of a tech renassaince. They couldn't keep up. "Tomorrow's promises" are just that these days. So best bet would change the name to modern world or something..
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Old 08-27-2010, 10:53 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by pilferk View Post
This is the "chicken/egg" argument. Did they not perform maintenance because there was little guest interest? Or was there little guest interest becuase they didn't perform the maintenance.

All I know is that in the late 90's, when my wife and I would visit (long before we had kids..and, actually, before we even got married), Living Seas was usually dead. Everything seemed to be in working order, but the only line nearby was to eat in Coral Seas.

Once the Nemo overlay is complete, the place is always crowded. Not full, but there are actually PEOPLE in there, looking around. We usually have a short line (on a continuous loader, no less) to get on the intro portion, now. When the sea cabs were working...I never waited. Ever. And we travel similar times of year, just in case anyone is wondering, now and then.

And, again, I'm not suggesting the creation of "Fantasyland South". My initial (and I find it amusing that I've now become the de facto "Nemo" defender, when, really, that attraction had no part of my original point) point is that Phineas and Ferb actually fit the theme of JII pretty well. They're constantly using their imagination and science skills (psuedo-science, I'll gratn you) to solve problems. They actually DO fit, easily as well as Dreamfinder and Figment do (I know, sacrelidge!!). The only difference is that P&T were created for a Disney Channel cartoon, so they're raising the dander of the Epcot traditionalists.

I'm not suggesting a Mickey overlay to Ellen's Energy Adventure or that Goofy be added to Mission Space or that Donald be the new host of Spaceship Earth. I agree, in many cases, overlaying existing characters on the Epcot attractions wouldn't work.
Yes Nemo brought people back but so would the E-ticket that was supposed to go there and then the settled for Cheap Nemo.
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Old 08-27-2010, 10:53 AM   #64
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No there should be no Sc-fi at all in EC that is what TL is for. Epcot should be a realistic look at the future.

You keep bringing up UOE but that no longer fits in FW either because it is about 20 years outdated on the material it teaches.

FW is a complete mess and in the worse shape it has ever been in.

Sea: I won't go there you already know my problem
JII: is a shell of its former self.
Test Track: In no way shape or form fits in FW way to modern. This is an easy fix because they only need to change the pre and post show to make it work.

MIssion Space is fine

UOE: Like I said 20 years behind the times
SSE: Is ok but needs to have the ending finished

The Land is in the best shape: But Soarin needs some tweaking.
The thing is: None of the attractions I mentioned was themed to "realistic look at the future", even when they were new.

The content is outdated in some, but your issue isn't with the content in Living Seas (since that hasn't changed). It's with the presentation/setting.

NONE of the places mentioned, even when new, had "realistic look at the future" theming or presentation. Even Sea Base Alpha was more sci fi than sci real.

It seems to me like the "ages of yore" hindsight is taking over.....
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Old 08-27-2010, 10:55 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by pilferk View Post
The thing is: None of the attractions I mentioned was themed to "realistic look at the future", even when they were new.

The content is outdated in some, but your issue isn't with the content in Living Seas (since that hasn't changed). It's with the presentation/setting.

NONE of the places mentioned, even when new, had "realistic look at the future" theming or presentation. Even Sea Base Alpha was more sci fi than sci real.

It seems to me like the "ages of yore" hindsight is taking over.....
Well we will have to agree to disagree because a fish from present day earth doesn't fit the theme of the future.
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Old 08-27-2010, 10:58 AM   #66
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maybe they should take the name from Innoventions and name it "land of Innovations" because thats basically what FW is
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Old 08-27-2010, 11:01 AM   #67
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Yes Nemo brought people back but so would the E-ticket that was supposed to go there and then the settled for Cheap Nemo.
I wouldn't know. I don't see plans, and I don't believe the typical "Jim Hill" style article without other proof.

So, while it's nice for you to say.....all I can tell you is that what they did seemed to work. If it ended up working for them at less cost...good for their shareholders. What can I tell you?

If you want to argue direction, use of capital, etc...have at it. But I won't chime in. I'll stick to what I can quantify, on this one.

Before: Dead
Now: Busy

Obviously, most people don't have the aversion to the attraction you do. And, honestly, that's what's going to matter to Disney. To me? I'm not bothered by it, my kids like it, I enjoy it (not as much as the previous incarnation, but still)...so it works. It's odd that I'm being pressed into championing it in this discussion because, honestly, I don't have super strong feelings for it. It's not my favorite FW attraction...but I think it rates pretty high up there for my kids. Probably 2nd only to Soarin'. Maybe I should have my 8 year old take over on this.
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Old 08-27-2010, 11:02 AM   #68
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maybe they should take the name from Innovations and name it "land of Innovations" because thats basically what FW is
I agreed EPCOT Center is dead and not coming back as of right now. Keep the name Epcot and Change FW to Discovery World and you could solve most of the problems.
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Old 08-27-2010, 11:03 AM   #69
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Well we will have to agree to disagree because a fish from present day earth doesn't fit the theme of the future.
Neither does Ellen from present day earth.

Neither does a car from present day earth.

Neither does a hang glider from present day earth.

Neither do hydroponic farms from present day earth.

Neither do Figment and Dreamfinder from present day earth.

You could say that about almost every attraction in FW, past and present incarnations.

But yes, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
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Old 08-27-2010, 11:04 AM   #70
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I wouldn't know. I don't see plans, and I don't believe the typical "Jim Hill" style article without other proof.

So, while it's nice for you to say.....all I can tell you is that what they did seemed to work. If it ended up working for them at less cost...good for their shareholders. What can I tell you?

If you want to argue direction, use of capital, etc...have at it. But I won't chime in. I'll stick to what I can quantify, on this one.

Before: Dead
Now: Busy

Obviously, most people don't have the aversion to the attraction you do. And, honestly, that's what's going to matter to Disney. To me? I'm not bothered by it, my kids like it, I enjoy it (not as much as the previous incarnation, but still)...so it works. It's odd that I'm being pressed into championing it in this discussion because, honestly, I don't have super strong feelings for it. It's not my favorite FW attraction...but I think it rates pretty high up there for my kids. Probably 2nd only to Soarin'. Maybe I should have my 8 year old take over on this.
I saw the actual plans not Jimhill. I you are not familar with it research Storm Rider that is at Tokyo Disney Seas. This would have come along with an omnimover just like Nemo with a different theme.
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Old 08-27-2010, 11:05 AM   #71
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Neither does Ellen from present day earth.

Neither does a car from present day earth.

Neither does a hang glider from present day earth.

Neither do hydroponic farms from present day earth.

Neither do Figment and Dreamfinder from present day earth.

You could say that about almost every attraction in FW, past and present incarnations.

But yes, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
Yes I already made that point
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Old 08-27-2010, 11:07 AM   #72
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Funny thing is IF Disney wanted to try to attempt to make FW futuristic again, by our standards of how we forsee the future is post appocalyptic. imagine them trying to pull that one out...
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Old 08-27-2010, 11:11 AM   #73
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Funny thing is IF Disney wanted to try to attempt to make FW futuristic again, by our standards of how we forsee the future is post appocalyptic. imagine them trying to pull that one out...
lol Epcot sponsored by the History Channels Life After People
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Old 08-27-2010, 11:27 AM   #74
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lol Epcot sponsored by the History Channels Life After People
With the "Mad Max's Beyond Thunderdome Adventure", "Mission:28 Days Later", "Journey into the Wasteland", "Living off the Land", and "Soarin' through the Fallout".
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Old 08-27-2010, 11:28 AM   #75
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With the "Mad Max's Beyond Thunderdome Adventure", "Mission:28 Days Later", "Journey into the Wasteland", "Living off the Land", and "Soarin' through the Fallout".
I will sign off on it today
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