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Old 08-26-2010, 05:28 PM   #31
ChrisFL
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Originally Posted by tiggspring View Post
I understand your frustration with the Characters in Epcot especilly when you cannot eat in Norway without the Pricess experience. Norway was my DH favorite spot when we went san kids. Epcot has always been DH and my favorite place to visit. Luckily my kids love it too and on our two visits they have always opted to go back to Epcot over the other parks and they dont need the charaters to enjoy their time there

I would have you consider this. Epcot will have children and lots of them most of the year. Many have not been to alot of museums, historical sites other than with the shcool and have not been taught how to enjoy these things by using their imaginataions and asking CM questions as much as they could. Add to this a chilss prepensity for meltdowns and the characters are a godsend. They offer parents a place to get the kids away from the other adults. My DD 5 really enjoyed her time in France with Marie and I feel it made her more relaxed when we then went to the movie in France. She got a little kids stuff in and was ready to be a big kid. Just like the kids spots do. Most kids under ten would be twice as grumpy without these things and wouldn't that be fun to listen to

Just a thought.
That's because Disney has made the decision to move away from attracting people without little kids to its parks. Now they've decided all they want to do is try to go after families with little kids and have to modify all of the WDW parks to suit that. It's sad for the rest of us.

I wouldn't mind if Norway had at least ONE meal that adults could eat at without princess dining and a dumbed down menu
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Old 08-26-2010, 05:35 PM   #32
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I can't see the global appeal of Phineas and Ferb..which I never hear about unless I'm on these boards.
You or I may not watch Phineas and Ferb or even know what they look like (although I do now) but the show is absolutely huge among kids. It does monster numbers on TV.

I don't think they should build a major attraction around them -- but I could certainly understand a presence for them.
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Old 08-26-2010, 08:02 PM   #33
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It would have been nice had they never had kodak in the first place...as we know it impacted the construction of EPCOT negatively
Maybe I missed something someplace but I've never read anything about a negative impact on the construction of EPCOT by Kodak. Could you please provide some insight into this.
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Old 08-26-2010, 08:58 PM   #34
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I was at JIIWF today. The Sign outside the attraction still says Sponsored by Kodak.

However, in the store I noted six new Figment T-Shirts and some other new Figment merchandise.

However, one particulat T-Shirt stood out. I wonder (hope) that it is a harbringer of things to come.

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Old 08-27-2010, 06:10 AM   #35
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I still don't see the appeal of putting a rarely known cartoon from the Disney Channel into Epcot as a main attraction, it's one thing for Kim Possible (which was cancelled?) into a small activity, but I can't see the global appeal of Phineas and Ferb..which I never hear about unless I'm on these boards.

Besides, there's only 2 characters which should ever be in Journey into Imagination...Dreamfinder and Figment.
And what, prey tell, did Dreamfinder and Figment start out as? What were they prior to inclusion in the attraction?

And what are they now? Other than on these boards, and amongst the Disneyphiles?

I'd garner that Phineas and Ferb (which, FYI, is not "rarely known"...if you've got kids between 6-14 in your house, you've likely heard of it. It's been one of the, if not the, top rated animated show for that demographic) could gain a similar status, if installed in the attraction. And they're a perfect fit, in terms of overall theme.

And I'm not saying Figment and Dreamfinder don't have a place in the attraction. They would.
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Old 08-27-2010, 06:15 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Figment632 View Post
No more characters in epcot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here's the thing: Journey into Imagination has ALWAYS had characters. Maybe not members of the traditional Disney pantheon, but Figment and Dreamfinder are definitely "characters". And the attraction, even when it was decent, has always been aimed squarely at the young, and young at heart.

I'm not proposing Disney add Goofy to Mission:Space or Mickey to Test Track. I'm proposing you add DIFFERENT characters (and probably in addition to) to an attraction that, really, already has them.

And the discussion is sort of a moot point anyway. Disney isn't going to do it.
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Old 08-27-2010, 06:53 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by pilferk View Post
Here's the thing: Journey into Imagination has ALWAYS had characters. Maybe not members of the traditional Disney pantheon, but Figment and Dreamfinder are definitely "characters". And the attraction, even when it was decent, has always been aimed squarely at the young, and young at heart.

I'm not proposing Disney add Goofy to Mission:Space or Mickey to Test Track. I'm proposing you add DIFFERENT characters (and probably in addition to) to an attraction that, really, already has them.

And the discussion is sort of a moot point anyway. Disney isn't going to do it.
Sorry that doesn't work Figment was designed for Epcot, what they did to the Seas by adding Nemo was kill the theme and destroy yhe pavilion.

There are three other parks to put the charactersin.

WHY THE HECK DOES EVERY ATTRACTION HAVBE TO INVOLVE A dISNEY CHARACTER?????????????
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Old 08-27-2010, 07:57 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Figment632 View Post
Sorry that doesn't work Figment was designed for Epcot, what they did to the Seas by adding Nemo was kill the theme and destroy yhe pavilion.

There are three other parks to put the charactersin.

WHY THE HECK DOES EVERY ATTRACTION HAVBE TO INVOLVE A dISNEY CHARACTER?????????????
It doesn't really matter WHO the characters were designed for. They're still characters. They're all Disney owned IP's.

You're splitting hairs, based on your bias for traditionalism. But the objection doesn't really ring true when there are ALREADY characters that are part of the attraction. It makes no logical sense to say "These Disney characters are OK to use, but these aren't" based off some artificial litmus test.

And again, I'm not suggesting EVERY attraction involve Disney characters (though, really, it IS Walt DISNEY World). I'm suggesting this ONE attraction, which already involves characters, incorporate different ones. Ones that actually closely fit the theme and tone of the current attraction.

On the Seas revamp, I agree and disagree. I liked the old pavillion, probably more than I like the current incarnation. That being said, my kids would disagree. They like the current version much better. I don't think I would say they RUINED it...but they changed it to appeal to a different audience.

If there's one thing every Disney theme park fan should learn, it's that things always change. Some of the changes you like, some you don't. But if you're going to fight for "no change" or for "traditionalism" at the theme parks...you're fighting a losing battle.

And, again, it's a moot point. I don't work for Disney. Disney isn't going to do this. And you're certainly not going to change MY mind that it's a good idea. I doubt I'll change yours, either. Guess we have to agree to disagree on this one.
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Old 08-27-2010, 08:13 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by pilferk View Post
It doesn't really matter WHO the characters were designed for. They're still characters. They're all Disney owned IP's.

You're splitting hairs, based on your bias for traditionalism. But the objection doesn't really ring true when there are ALREADY characters that are part of the attraction. It makes no logical sense to say "These Disney characters are OK to use, but these aren't" based off some artificial litmus test.

And again, I'm not suggesting EVERY attraction involve Disney characters (though, really, it IS Walt DISNEY World). I'm suggesting this ONE attraction, which already involves characters, incorporate different ones. Ones that actually closely fit the theme and tone of the current attraction.

On the Seas revamp, I agree and disagree. I liked the old pavillion, probably more than I like the current incarnation. That being said, my kids would disagree. They like the current version much better. I don't think I would say they RUINED it...but they changed it to appeal to a different audience.

If there's one thing every Disney theme park fan should learn, it's that things always change. Some of the changes you like, some you don't. But if you're going to fight for "no change" or for "traditionalism" at the theme parks...you're fighting a losing battle.

And, again, it's a moot point. I don't work for Disney. Disney isn't going to do this. And you're certainly not going to change MY mind that it's a good idea. I doubt I'll change yours, either. Guess we have to agree to disagree on this one.
What Nemo did was make the entire pavilion no longer fit in FW. There is no defending it and there is no way you can say that Nemo fits the theme of FW.

Also I have seen the plans for JII 4.0 there are several options and they all invovle Figment and most involve Dream Finder.

Slapping new characters like Nemo and the plans (thank gogd they were shot down) for Monters INc. in UOE is what I call the dumbing down of Epcot.

Explain to me how adding cartoon characters to the pavilions follows Epcots mission statement.

To all who come to this place of joy, hope and friendship, welcome.
Epcot Center is inspired by Walt Disney's creative genius. Here, human achievements are celebrated through imagination, the wonders of enterprise, and concepts of a future that promises new and exciting benefits for all.

May Epcot Center entertain, inform and inspire. And, above all, may it instill a new sense of belief and pride in man's ability to shape a world that offers hope to people everywhere.
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Old 08-27-2010, 08:16 AM   #40
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Also Nemo was the cheap way out that is why it happened.
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Old 08-27-2010, 08:47 AM   #41
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They are being removed as you typed this.
Obviously the sponsorship deal is still in effect to some capacity. Disney is not known to give ANYTHING free to anyone, including advertisers. Deals like this just don't end with no notice. In any type of contract like this written by even a semi competent lawyer would require notification. Unless an agreement is reached (and it is entirely possible that one has been), DIsney could not remove signs, logos, etc that are agreed upon in said contract until the deal had expired.

However, I do question the total validity of this rumor. Ignoring the signs still up at JII and logos on the maps, Kodak has had a relationship with Disney for 55 years. Given the plethora of articles about venerable companies and hard times, the 24 hour news cycle and transparency laws for public companies, if this were true, the business press would have picked up on it IF Kodak was severing all ties with Disney... Just like it was news when Disney and McDonald's seperated, when several companies stopped sponsoring NASCAR over the last year or two, etc. Not saying its Front page news, but a google search would turn up some articles on the subject if true.

I do think its entirely possible they will still end sponsorship of JII (and may already have although until the signs come down, they are still contractual sponsors of the attraction), I do not believe that there sponsorship of the maps has ended at this time. The evidence disputes the claim.

Now, I'm not saying it couldn't eventually happen. In fact given the $.50 per share loss reported a month ago in their earnings report, its entirely possible. And it is entirely possible they waited a day after Disney's earnings report to give notice. But you jump the gun reporting things as fact when no proof of it exists. Call it a rumor.
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Old 08-27-2010, 08:50 AM   #42
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1) Oops.
2) This is going to cost WDW a bundle.
3) Sure, Imagination support was a lot of bucks.
4) But, as the sponsor, Kodak paid for ALL of the parks maps/guides & printing.
5) That is a lot of money.

NOTE: I wrote a while ago that sponsorship at WDW was being withdrawn by many companies. Being a sponsor is no longer the automatic business-magnet it used to be. People are not automatically patronizing WDW sponsors like they are with NASCAR - who have the most loyal patrons of sponsiors of any sport. Welcome to the real world, WDW.
Actually, the evidence of NASCAR loyalty is diminishing greatly. Several large sponsors have left because the loyalty doesn't exist anymore and they want to focus the money elsewhere. TV ratings are down, Merchandise and ticket sales are down and total revenue is down, which is interesting. I could understand Merchandise and TIcket sales in a bad economy, but the TV ratings are the ones that hit home. Especially since Nascar made changes and brought back things fans liked, such as double file restarts.
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Old 08-27-2010, 08:54 AM   #43
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Obviously the sponsorship deal is still in effect to some capacity. Disney is not known to give ANYTHING free to anyone, including advertisers. Deals like this just don't end with no notice. In any type of contract like this written by even a semi competent lawyer would require notification. Unless an agreement is reached (and it is entirely possible that one has been), DIsney could not remove signs, logos, etc that are agreed upon in said contract until the deal had expired.

However, I do question the total validity of this rumor. Ignoring the signs still up at JII and logos on the maps, Kodak has had a relationship with Disney for 55 years. Given the plethora of articles about venerable companies and hard times, the 24 hour news cycle and transparency laws for public companies, if this were true, the business press would have picked up on it IF Kodak was severing all ties with Disney... Just like it was news when Disney and McDonald's seperated, when several companies stopped sponsoring NASCAR over the last year or two, etc. Not saying its Front page news, but a google search would turn up some articles on the subject if true.

I do think its entirely possible they will still end sponsorship of JII (and may already have although until the signs come down, they are still contractual sponsors of the attraction), I do not believe that there sponsorship of the maps has ended at this time. The evidence disputes the claim.

Now, I'm not saying it couldn't eventually happen. In fact given the $.50 per share loss reported a month ago in their earnings report, its entirely possible. And it is entirely possible they waited a day after Disney's earnings report to give notice. But you jump the gun reporting things as fact when no proof of it exists. Call it a rumor.
They end like this all the time for any proof of that see hoe Nestle left the Land and how Metlife left WOL.

The days of sponsorship of theme park rides are numbered imo.
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Old 08-27-2010, 09:05 AM   #44
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I still don't see the appeal of putting a rarely known cartoon from the Disney Channel into Epcot as a main attraction, it's one thing for Kim Possible (which was cancelled?) into a small activity, but I can't see the global appeal of Phineas and Ferb..which I never hear about unless I'm on these boards.

Besides, there's only 2 characters which should ever be in Journey into Imagination...Dreamfinder and Figment.
Kim possible ended... it wasn't cancelled. Disney actually brought it back for another season. They aren't really known for going past 60-80 shows of a series (it was 63 for years)... They make enough to play them ad nauseum on the Disney channel.

This has been changing over recently however... I think the HM cash cow showed them the true potential but thats speculation.
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Old 08-27-2010, 09:28 AM   #45
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They end like this all the time for any proof of that see hoe Nestle left the Land and how Metlife left WOL.

The days of sponsorship of theme park rides are numbered imo.
I read about both ending in the business section of the paper when the companies decided to end their relationship. In fact they talked about how long certain aspects would remain in place before they are changed.

No one said that the days of sponsorship of theme park rides aren't numbered. In fact, the part I questioned is them entirely severing their relationship as the map sponsor and official photo company of DIsney, etc.

I said its entirely possible that this happens. However, A complete sponsorship withdrawal would show up in the papers. And until those signs are removed and map logos removed, they are still sponsors. Otherwise Disney couldn't continue to use them without permission and I doubt they would even if they had permission. They could have those signs removed overnight if need be. Not this long drawn out procedure.

More likely if the relationship is at an end, its end date is sometime in the future... lets use Oct 1 for example. Disney will continue to use the Maps and have the signage until park close on Sept 30. Overnight the JII kodak signs will disappear as if Kodak never existed. THe maps will be replaced with new Kodak logoless maps for Oct 1 and onward. Its not a multiday event.

It seems the most likely thing is that Kodak's sponsorship of JII will end shortly, while they continue their park level sponsorship.
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