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Old 08-20-2010, 01:20 PM   #646
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Originally Posted by Tiger926 View Post
The difference is that I'm just chatting and discussing things that are of interest to me. I'm not dissecting posts and expecting others to prove each and every point that they made. I'm not grading my students' papers, nor defending my thesis either...but this thread sure makes me feel like I am...

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Old 08-20-2010, 01:22 PM   #647
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I'm going to jump in here about WDW being inexpensive. I own a business, earn a decent profit, blessed with a nice home, drive a nice car, spend a good deal of disposable income, and invest a good deal of money for my future retirement; in no way do I find WDW inexpensive, even comparing it to other trips.

I think the better word for me would be a perceived value for the money I spend at WDW. I have been on 7 day cruises in the Caribbean for less than my stays at WDW. I have spent a week in a cabin in the Smokey Mountains for less including attractions and food. I have enjoyed a week at an all inclusive resort in Punta Cana for less, a resort in Aruba for less, and I have been on an Alaskan cruise for less than Disney, so no, the word inexpensive does not come to mind for me.

I have been to Hawaii and spent more than WDW. I have been to Australia and have spent more, I have been to Europe and spent more than WDW. I have spent a week in Paradise Island at Atlantis in the Bahama's for more. With that I still wouldn't call WDW inexpensive.

For the pp (leaving them nameless) who feels it's inexpensive to go to WDW, I'm truly glad for you money is of no concern . You must be part of an very fortunate and small group of people who have an endless supply of disposable income. I do not say this to throw out insults at you; instead it's to commend you that you have reached the plateau may of us strive to obtain and fall short of.
I'm going to jump in here too, although this was pages ago and maybe not even valid any more. But it's interesting to me that in this post, you list all of the places you've been -- cruises, Hawaii, Australia, Europe, Paradise Island, Punta Cana, and on and on and then have the nerve to say, "You must be part of a very fortunate and small group of people who have an endless supply of disposable income." Because I'm sitting here reading your list of vacation destinations and thinking pretty much exactly the same thing aout you! I'm wishing that I had enough disposable income to make it to even a fraction of those places. I know that wasn't your intent, but boy -- if you're trying to prove that bicker is somehow flaunting his wealth by claiming WDW to be inexpensive, you're kind of biting yourself in the behind by listing all the very expensive vacations you've taken. You've been on more vacations than most people I know and yet you're criticizing someone else for having so much "disposable income"?

I don't get that at ALL.

As for Disney being an inexpensive vacation, it all depends on how you look at it. My family usually decides on how much they want to spend on a vacation. Say we set aside $2000. We take that budget and look at what we can do for that amount. Maybe it's a three-day cruise. Maybe it's two weeks at Disney in a campsite. Maybe it's four nights at Disney at the Grand with dinner at V&A. Maybe it's a month at home taking daytrips. But all of those things cost exactly the same amount. So there's no way to say that one is more expensive or inexpensive than the other. Because we START with the amount of money first. We say "$2000 is our budget."

Some people start with "we're taking a 2-week vacation" and they plan from there. And if you look at a 2-week vacation, then yeah -- two weeks at Disney will be more expensive than some options (say, two weeks in the mountains) and less expensive than other options (for example, two weeks in Hawaii). It just depends on your starting point.

As to the person who kept saying "apples to oranges" -- when I compare vacations, I compare "Vacation A" to "Vacation B" when I talk expensive / inexpensive. If "Vacation A" is Disney and "Vacation B" is the mountains, that's apple to apples for me, because they are both $2000 vacations. Same thing. I don't compare a vacation at Disney to a vacation at Six Flags because I would never TAKE a vacation at Six Flags, so it doesn't make it into the equation at all. You're saying that I can't compare Disney to any vacation other than a theme park vacation, and in that thought, you're wrong. I compare it to the other vacation options I am looking at this year. Which is a fair comparison for me.

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Old 08-20-2010, 01:24 PM   #648
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Ah, my old friend Bicker still arguing away from your mom’s basement.
I have a pretty thick skin, so I've let the dozen or so personal attacks against me slide. I know that there are more folks who prefer your view of the world than what I'm explaining, and so the taste of blood does tend to bring out the personal attacks. It typically doesn't bother me one bit. I understand the mechanics of discussion forums, especially when folks who think of themselves as consumers feel aggrieved. However, this strikes a nerve: My mother is actually deceased, and the anniversary of her birth was yesterday, so this bit of irresponsible posting on your part is especially egregious. (You couldn't have known that, I know, and I understand that. And she lived to a ripe age, so don't worry about that.)

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I’ve read through your posts and still cannot figure out what you are arguing.
I'm not sure how you can be confused after all this. You don't like what I'm saying. I get that. But not understanding it? I don't believe that for a minute. And what's more, I think anyone who's followed this thread this long not only knows exactly what I've been saying, but knows that what I've been saying is going to actually reflect the reality that they're going to encounter when planning and taking their vacations going forward. Nuf sed. I think we've beaten this horse enough don't you?
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:24 PM   #649
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wdwsearcher, Makes sense to me.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:27 PM   #650
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So what made them think of countless deals after all? Market segmentation ... ?
That's absolutely a major consideration. It surely isn't that they can't fill rooms. They wouldn't be building a new resort if that were the case.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:30 PM   #651
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No I'm not. That's what you said. I disagreed with you. See above.

Universal's commercials show two children actually flying through the air -- not in a roller coast, actually flying on brooms. Are you going to expect your children will actually fly on brooms, if you bring them to Universal?

Precisely my point.

It wasn't thought-up yet.
*
Now your above assertion is exactly why PEOPLE are GETTING FRUSTRATED! This is called a strawman's argument when you deflect the argument and don't refute what I'M ACTUALLY SAYING. Let me reiterate again, when people see Disney commericials it's looks clean and magical. Hense the user see a beautiful castle, they see families having a good time, they see fireworks. The user sees this a place they would like to take their family. Because, well, because, it's WALT DISNEY WORLD. Now when users see this commericial they aren't thinking gee will my kids fly with dumbo and have a sit down dinner with Mickey mouse, even though they visually see it. NO! They see the whole picture. You're analogy of Univerisal's commerical is pure sarcasm and lunacy. You are making things up in your own mind! This is why people are getting very frustrated with you. I really hope you don't have any dealing with customers or the public.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:30 PM   #652
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All over the place. Here's an example, for a standard-standard room at Animal Kingdom Lodge:Absolutely explicit promises, and if any of those things are missing, you surely have right to ask for them to be provided, and to be upset if they're not provided.

Of course it is practical. You just have to be willing to learn what you're buying, and not project your own perturbations onto what is actually promised.

"Implicit promises" tends to be nothing of the sort, but rather just another way of saying, "What I want." That's the problem.

But you're doing the tricking to yourself.
I agree with you that the listed part is an explicit promise, but as far as parks and restaurants go, I am hard pressed to find an equivalent.

I am willing to learn what I am actually buying and I am asking you how to do that. I truly would like to understand your perspective.

Implicit promises can be based solely in someone's schema, but for most of us they are based in reality, not 100% fantasy and wish fulfillment. Simply because some people's expectations are unrealistic, does not mean that implicit promises don't really exist. For example, in addition to the listed amenities, it IS realistic for guests to expect a clean room with no hairs in the bathtub. If that implicit promise is not kept, guests have a right to complain and have it fixed. I further think that things like park cleanliness are also an implicit promise.

How did I trick myself? Please explain this. How should one align his or her expectations for a meal in Disney World without utilizing prior background knowledge?
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:33 PM   #653
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That's absolutely a major consideration. It surely isn't that they can't fill rooms. They wouldn't be building a new resort if that were the case.
Your opinion, not a fact.
BTW, if you want quote me, please do not cut in the middle of the sentence, do not change what I said.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:36 PM   #654
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I'm going to jump in here too, although this was pages ago and maybe not even valid any more. But it's interesting to me that in this post, you list all of the places you've been -- cruises, Hawaii, Australia, Europe, Paradise Island, Punta Cana, and on and on and then have the nerve to say, "You must be part of a very fortunate and small group of people who have an endless supply of disposable income." Because I'm sitting here reading your list of vacation destinations and thinking pretty much exactly the same thing aout you! I'm wishing that I had enough disposable income to make it to even a fraction of those places. I know that wasn't your intent, but boy -- if you're trying to prove that bicker is somehow flaunting his wealth by claiming WDW to be inexpensive, you're kind of biting yourself in the behind by listing all the very expensive vacations you've taken. You've been on more vacations than most people I know and yet you're criticizing someone else for having so much "disposable income"?

I don't get that at ALL.

As for Disney being an inexpensive vacation, it all depends on how you look at it. My family usually decides on how much they want to spend on a vacation. Say we set aside $2000. We take that budget and look at what we can do for that amount. Maybe it's a three-day cruise. Maybe it's two weeks at Disney in a campsite. Maybe it's four nights at Disney at the Grand with dinner at V&A. Maybe it's a month at home taking daytrips. But all of those things cost exactly the same amount. So there's no way to say that one is more expensive or inexpensive than the other. Because we START with the amount of money first. We say "$2000 is our budget."

Some people start with "we're taking a 2-week vacation" and they plan from there. And if you look at a 2-week vacation, then yeah -- two weeks at Disney will be more expensive than some options (say, two weeks in the mountains) and less expensive than other options (for example, two weeks in Hawaii). It just depends on your starting point.

As to the person who kept saying "apples to oranges" -- when I compare vacations, I compare "Vacation A" to "Vacation B" when I talk expensive / inexpensive. If "Vacation A" is Disney and "Vacation B" is the mountains, that's apple to apples for me, because they are both $2000 vacations. Same thing. I don't compare a vacation at Disney to a vacation at Six Flags because I would never TAKE a vacation at Six Flags, so it doesn't make it into the equation at all. You're saying that I can't compare Disney to any vacation other than a theme park vacation, and in that thought, you're wrong. I compare it to the other vacation options I am looking at this year. Which is a fair comparison for me.


**
Hi! With all due respect , I think the poster in question has taken various vacations within his lifetime. Personally I don't think it's a lot of "down time" or "vacation time" for one to take. I have taken hundreds of vacations in my lifetime. Not bragging, I just save money to do this. I have a vacation fund! LOL! You can take cruises that are fairly inexpensive, and other camping vacations that are inexpensive. I just think everything is relative.

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Old 08-20-2010, 01:37 PM   #655
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This is called a strawman's argument when you deflect the argument and don't refute what I'M ACTUALLY SAYING. Let me reiterate again, when people see Disney commericials it's looks clean and magical.
You don't think flying on brooms as magical? I think you're making up a grievance here. What I presented was a great analogy, not a Strawman Argument. The point was very clear: That folks are seeing more in what Disney is saying than Disney is actually saying. I've never seen a commercial for Las Vegas, or Hilton, or American Airlines that isn't clean, yet we know that those offerings are not always perfectly absolutely and totally clean.

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You are making things up in your own mind!
Sorry, but I'm not, but I believe you are.

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I really hope you don't have any dealing with customers or the public.
I suppose I should hope that you aren't in a position to decide how a company is run, though I'm not sure what those kinds of statements add to the conversation.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:38 PM   #656
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That's absolutely a major consideration. It surely isn't that they can't fill rooms. They wouldn't be building a new resort if that were the case.
And what is category of resort they build? Enough said.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:39 PM   #657
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*
I disagree. I think the consumer wants:

a. a fair price for products
b. doesn't want to be gouged by surcharges for buffets
c. their beds made and rooms cleaned before 4 p.m.
d. to be treated fairly by all Cast members
e. to be greeted with politeness i.e. thank you and welcome via cms

Bottom line consumers pay a premium for these types of expectations at WDW. The above is something a consumer should expect not want when going to WDW, in my opinion.
Points b and c are matters of opinion. I generally don't eat at buffets, so I don't "want" anything in regards to them. As for my room -- once I leave the resort in the morning, I don't go back until it's time for bed. So it doesn't matter to me at all whether the beds are made and the room cleaned before 4pm, because I won't get back there until 10pm. Those two points are things that YOU may want, but I don't think that you can say they are things that all consumers expect.

Points a, d and e are subjective. I may think that my WDW trip comes at a fair price. You may not. I may think I'm being treated fairly by CMs. You may not. I may be perfectly satisfied with the politeness of the CMs I meet. You may not. And therein lies the problem. There is no absolute in any of the items you claim consumers want. So it's impossible to deliver on them. Disney could change every single policy and pricing strategy they have to a point where you are completely utterly totally satisfied. And there would still be some guy behind you saying that it was too expensive and not friendly enough. Disney will never satisfy all of its customers. But they seem to be satisfying the majority of its customers, or you would think that they would be closed or bankrupt.

Just read the trip reports thread. People come back saying that they had the best trip of their lives -- that everything was wonderful, CMs amazing, fabulous service, etc. Someone else can come back from a trip that very same week and say that it was horrible, CMs were rude, service was crap. Who's right?

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Old 08-20-2010, 01:40 PM   #658
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The difference is that I'm just chatting and discussing things that are of interest to me. I'm not dissecting posts and expecting others to prove each and every point that they made. I'm not grading my students' papers, nor defending my thesis either...but this thread sure makes me feel like I am...

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Tiger, I am offended by your post! I will be doing BOTH of those things in 3 weeks!
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:42 PM   #659
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*
They never, EVER had FREE DINING for one solid, year (365 days). You're assertion is incorrect. They might have had FREE DINING for a few months throughout the year but not for a straight 365 days.
Brunette: Seeing as how I have this individual on "ignore" I only see the words in your quote. My response (which is glaring at me!!) would be: "What? How many more days in a year could be 365?" I don't think you can have "longer offerings" in a year than to have a full year..... It is pretty much the limit! But oh well?!?!

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After this thread runs it's course, which I think will be very soon, (LOL) we'll have something else to discuss and then have to remember that golden rule.
Yes Goofy! I think this thread crossed over on page 44. Me thinks me sees the hammer dude a comin'!!!

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I love it.

I guess one would have had to been at the Dole Whip meeting to understand the humor in this statement.
I don't know if you caught my earlier post but next year, the Dole Whip's are on me! (How's that for flaunting my cash flow!! LOL!)

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Goofy4prez says: you are correct, typo error early in the morning. Don't need the yourdictionary.com to learn the synonym for shareholder or stockholder.


*
I knew EXACTLY what you were talking about. LOL! We all make spelling mistakes. No worries at all. Frankly I don't have alot of time to proof my spelling and I can't download the spell check on my work computer. LOL!
Me as well. I guess when someone is losing their argument, they need to start picking on things totally irrelevant!


***********

For Indiana:

You can also ask for a recipe for anything you buy from the Chef at the restaurant you are at! I've asked several times and got them for free. One caveat however..., they're not entirely user friendly. You have to have some culinary knowledge to put some things together. I.E.: The recipe for the Peanut Sauce at O'Hana gives you an ingredient list. You have to know how to make it a sauce. What they give you works however, and it's free!!
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:44 PM   #660
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I agree with you that the listed part is an explicit promise, but as far as parks and restaurants go, I am hard pressed to find an equivalent.
There is a good amount of such information available. It may not specify all the things you expect - but that's the point! They promise what they promise. If they exceed their promises, that should delight you.

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Implicit promises can be based solely in someone's schema, but for most of us they are based in reality, not 100% fantasy and wish fulfillment. Simply because some people's expectations are unrealistic, does not mean that implicit promises don't really exist.
Indeed, and what I said was that "implicit promises tends to be nothing of the sort," and are often a guise for "What I want". I didn't say that it was always the case.

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How did I trick myself?
By expecting things not promised.

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How should one align his or her expectations for a meal in Disney World without utilizing prior background knowledge?
Don't purchase something without having knowledge of what you're buying.

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Originally Posted by KellyNY View Post
And what is category of resort they build?
Economy, because they're listening to their customers and giving them what they are willing to pay for. You have a problem with that? Are you suggesting that listening to their customers, and giving customers what they are willing to pay for is a bad thing? Should they force customers to all pay top dollar for deluxe resorts?
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