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Old 08-20-2010, 01:17 PM   #616
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I want Disney to continue to deliver the Disney Magic that they have advertised in the past and continue to advertise. I don't think that that will happen though.

Disney has decided to be like other companies, instead of being great at one or two things, own a bunch of companies and do a average job. Putting profit before quality and service is now the standard at all large companies.

Bill
Agree ,good post
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:19 PM   #617
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Thanks, Lulu! I have some of the cookbooks downstairs. I must pull them back up one of these days.

Kelly, does the DP still save money over buying the same meals off plan? I think that would the comparison. If it does, then it still serves the original purpose, imo.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:25 PM   #618
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After reading the last 10 or so pages of this thread I can see how Bicker chose the name.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:28 PM   #619
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How much does it irritate you to receive what you were promised instead of what you expected, when you expected more than you were promised? What value does it add to your experience to base your expectations on something other than what your supplier is offering? How is it less irritating to be disappointed and disaffected, as opposed to cognizant of what you're promised and what you can reliably count-on receiving?
I'm not following at all...
Start by considering and answering the questions. Really, everyone who advocated holding expectations beyond what is promised should consider and answer these questions.

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You didn't get my reference - I was speaking about when other posters say this, as has been echoed in this thread - just stop complaining about Disney or stop going!
No I got your reference. It seems you didn't understand the point I made about there being many guests glad to pay for what is offered.

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Not sure what success you are speaking about?
WDW's success. Year over year.

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Again, not sure how this relates to anything that I said.
Sure it does. It couldn't be any more related if it was the same words as you used.

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I was referring to the example that I gave, and how it refers to Disney.
And I was referring to that comment.

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So, if he/she cuts off your arm instead of your leg, or gives you a tummy tuck instead of a face lift because he feels like saving money, what then?
Then he didn't do what he promised!

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Again, you missed my point.
Not at all.

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I wasn't talking about my service provider, but the other posters in the thread.
Then project what I said in the direction of those other posters and what they said.

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Expecting not to have someone else's hair in your room shower, or food in your villa fridge is a reasonable expectation.
Correct, but if that's all people were talking about then there wouldn't be anything to discuss in this thread. That's not all people are talking about. They're going beyond the bounds of what is reasonable for the industry. They even admit it, claiming that because it is Disney that reasonable goes out the window vis a vis expectations and instead a whole different set of expectations, expectations beyond what is promised, should be applicable.

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Well, of course there is.
No, of course there isn't.

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We've already determined that Disney does not discount as a reward, they discount as a way of securing business
Someone who agrees with your position (perhaps you) claimed that perhaps, but if you're going to assume that everything you or someone who agrees with you is true, then you're having a discussion with yourself. The reality is that discounting is used to segment the marketplace, deriving from each segment as much as forecasts indicate that segment is willing to pay. This is basic Marketing 101.

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therefore, I am saying that if they truly believe that their products are affordable for all families, and they are confident in the prices that they have set for those products, then they wouldn't have to offer discounts to fill rooms.
How ridiculously circular that reasoning is.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:33 PM   #620
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So you don't have any evidence of a correlation. That's what I said.
If you declare that I am wrong, then prove it. Can you? Do you have access to Disney business plan to actually tell me that I am wrong or you just talk.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:36 PM   #621
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I said that there is no evidence of a correlation. What do you want? "Look here --> <-- See? It's not there!" The proof of the absence of evidence is the absence of evidence itself. That's basic. If you claim what you said before is true, then show the evidence. But don't waste too much time: You won't find any because it isn't true.

Look: I get that you wish it was true. One of the several reasons I switched careers later in life is because it was so depressing being exposed to all this depressing reality of the consumer marketplace, hour after hour, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year. I'm much happier just discussing it as a hobby instead of it being my job and having to really worry about convincing people, like I used to. It now, literally, doesn't really matter to me anymore. But be sure, I do feel for folks frustrated by the reality; I went through it myself.

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Old 08-20-2010, 01:39 PM   #622
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Start by considering and answering the questions. Really, everyone who advocated holding expectations beyond what is promised should consider and answer these questions.

No I got your reference. It seems you didn't understand the point I made about there being many guests glad to pay for what is offered.

WDW's success. Year over year.

Sure it does. It couldn't be any more related if it was the same words as you used.

And I was referring to that comment.

Then he didn't do what he promised!

Not at all.

Then project what I said in the direction of those other posters and what they said.

Correct, but if that's all people were talking about then there wouldn't be anything to discuss in this thread. That's not all people are talking about. They're going beyond the bounds of what is reasonable for the industry. They even admit it, claiming that because it is Disney that reasonable goes out the window vis a vis expectations and instead a whole different set of expectations, expectations beyond what is promised, should be applicable.

No, of course there isn't.

Someone who agrees with your position (perhaps you) claimed that perhaps, but if you're going to assume that everything you or someone who agrees with you is true, then you're having a discussion with yourself. The reality is that discounting is used to segment the marketplace, deriving from each segment as much as forecasts indicate that segment is willing to pay. This is basic Marketing 101.

How ridiculously circular that reasoning is.

Thanks, but once again, my head hurts. I'm not sure why you find enjoyment out of picking apart each and every discussion. You seriously will refute pretty much most of what every other poster has to say. It seriously gives me a headache. I've read voluminous student psych reports that are less confusing than your posts.

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Old 08-20-2010, 01:39 PM   #623
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Originally Posted by Indiana Rose Lee View Post
Thanks, Lulu! I have some of the cookbooks downstairs. I must pull them back up one of these days.

Kelly, does the DP still save money over buying the same meals off plan? I think that would the comparison. If it does, then it still serves the original purpose, imo.
Original did, this one, not really, count everything and you will see.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:43 PM   #624
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is there a place to get the food price info?
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:46 PM   #625
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All over the place. Here's an example, for a standard-standard room at Animal Kingdom Lodge:Absolutely explicit promises, and if any of those things are missing, you surely have right to ask for them to be provided, and to be upset if they're not provided.
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Of course it is practical. You just have to be willing to learn what you're buying, and not project your own perturbations onto what is actually promised.

"Implicit promises" tends to be nothing of the sort, but rather just another way of saying, "What I want." That's the problem.

But you're doing the tricking to yourself.

So you don't have any evidence of a correlation. That's what I said.

**
LMAO!!! That "promise" is so generic it could be motel 8! That is ridiculous! So, you are saying Disney eh hem, promises the bear minimum to it's customers? That's it? LOL You're analogy is ludicrous at best.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:48 PM   #626
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You seriously will refute pretty much most of what every other poster has to say. It seriously gives me a headache.
Now I'm confused. Are you not contending your assertion as firmly as I'm contending mine? We actually do disagree so it shouldn't be surprising that if you try to assert something as defense for what you're saying, that as part of my disagreement I'll point out why your defense either is invalid or doesn't address the assertion I made. Let's stop talking about the discussion, please. I made some points, and asked some questions, in that message. If you want to discuss my message, let's discuss the on-topic aspects of it, okay?
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:52 PM   #627
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LMAO!!! That "promise" is so generic it could be motel 8!
No not quite, and that was just one portion of what Disney promises. I don't have the time or space to essentially repost their entire website, and all the advertising materials and promotional materials that they publish. What I posted as a very small sampling so you could gain some understanding of what type of information constitutes a promise.

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That is ridiculous! So, you are saying Disney eh hem, promises the bear minimum to it's customers? That's it? LOL You're analogy is ludicrous at best.
Not hardly. Rather what is "ludicrous" is refusing to grant service providers a place in telling customers what they're offering - putting one's own guesses over what the service provider actually says.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:54 PM   #628
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So have many other companies. You just happened to have chosen to elevate Disney over those others, perhaps because you're fan. However, Disney has contemporaries in many service sectors. But regardless of it all, there are only really one thing that matters - that has ever mattered in the common era: Are these premiums services worth the premium to enough customers?

That's unnecessary. It is necessary only to dig one level lower to get from a company to its owners.

With regard to #1: How much does it irritate you to receive what you were promised instead of what you expected, when you expected more than you were promised? What value does it add to your experience to base your expectations on something other than what your supplier is offering? How is it less irritating to be disappointed and disaffected, as opposed to cognizant of what you're promised and what you can reliably count-on receiving?

With regard to #2, the issue is that as long as enough people reward service providers for providing what they provide how they provide it for the price they provide it, they would be idiots to suddenly throw all that success away.

The assertion that it is ridiculous to expect what you're promised is a ridiculous assertion.

That's a red herring. Presumably your surgeon promised you their best efforts. If they didn't provide you that, then you have every right to be upset.

You can choose to perceive it as your service provide insulting you, but that's not at all what it is. They're simply not offering what you want.

What proof do you have for that? There is no correlation between confidence in products and the offering of discounts.
**
The proof is simple economics 101. When the economy is on a downward spiral and people are out of work, Disney has to fill hotel rooms. Afterall (FACT) Disney parks are down 8 percent from last year per CNN a few days ago. Hotels need to be filled. How? They offer FREE DINING or 40 percent of discounts. It's so bad now that Disney is offering FREE DINING for the whole year of 2011. They have never, EVER done this before. They're doing this to fill hotels and they want guests to spend money. At the same time they are raising prices on buffets and various food items, which makes no sense at all. Anyway, back on point, when the economy is good there was rarely any FREE DINING especially for the whole year.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:54 PM   #629
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I said that there is no evidence of a correlation. What do you want? "Look here --> <-- See? It's not there!" The proof of the absence of evidence is the absence of evidence itself. That's basic. If you claim what you said before is true, then show the evidence. But don't waste too much time: You won't find any because it isn't true.

Look: I get that you wish it was true. One of the several reasons I switched careers later in life is because it was so depressing being exposed to all this depressing reality of the consumer marketplace, hour after hour, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year. I'm much happier just discussing it as a hobby instead of it being my job and having to really worry about convincing people, like I used to. It now, literally, doesn't really matter to me anymore. But be sure, I do feel for folks frustrated by the reality; I went through it myself.
I see countless deals, can you explain why? I have my answer, my opinion. Do you feel that your opinion is superior then mine? You may disagree with me but please do not make your opinion sound like a FACT when you have absolutely no prooves, no evidence, and no access to Disney business plan.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:57 PM   #630
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The proof is simple economics 101. When the economy is on a downward spiral and people are out of work, Disney has to fill hotel rooms.
A discretionary income gap - which has nothing to do with what was asserted earlier, that it is because there was a value gap.

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Anyway, back on point, when the economy is good there was rarely any FREE DINING especially for the year.
That's not true. Free Dining was both more plentiful and lasted longer in 2005 and 2006.

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I see countless deals, can you explain why?
When weren't there deals? Regardless, I did explain why. Market segmentation. And Brunette graciously provided a secondary reason for some of this past year's deals: A discretionary income gap caused by the recession. (Now that we're in recovery, that reason won't apply next year, unless we have a double-dip.)
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