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Old 08-20-2010, 12:24 PM   #601
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4. no way to prove this unless one has access to Disney's employee database

Did you miss the announcement a while back that Disney was reducing staff levels by 1500 (not a typo) at the parks in Orlando? And that it would have 'no discernible impact on guest services'? The former is factual; the latter is what is being debated on this thread. I've been going to WDW for more than 15 years and to claim that the level of service has not declined is akin to claiming the world is flat
I did not know that. When it happened?
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Old 08-20-2010, 12:27 PM   #602
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So have many other companies. You just happened to have chosen to elevate Disney over those others, perhaps because you're fan. However, Disney has contemporaries in many service sectors. But regardless of it all, there are only really one thing that matters - that has ever mattered in the common era: Are these premiums services worth the premium to enough customers?
I did not choose to elevate Disney - Disney did right from the start in DL! That was behind the concept. Watch any of the Travel Channel/History Channel documentaries on Disney and you will see that Disney strives to be one step above the rest.

Yes, and the concept that the Disney empire built itself on IS declining and who best to notice than those that have visited for many, many years.
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Old 08-20-2010, 12:33 PM   #603
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Considering how many discounts and offers they have to run to fill room, changes aren't that successful.
That's not true. There is no such correlation.

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I did not choose to elevate Disney - Disney did right from the start in DL!
Not in the manner you're elevating them. See above.

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That was behind the concept. Watch any of the Travel Channel/History Channel documentaries on Disney and you will see that Disney strives to be one step above the rest.
No, they strive to be one step above their competition, not the rest of all companies in all sectors (which is what you're replying to).

And this is one way that we guests really mess things up for ourselves. Disney's intention was to try to provide more than they promise on occasion, so guests have the opportunity to be delighted. Instead, guests just changed what they expected to include everything anyone has ever received as a bonus over what is promised. We guests poisoned the pool of magic.
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Old 08-20-2010, 12:37 PM   #604
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wish I had thought of that analogy!!!
Thanks

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Oh Lulu, I heart you. And moreso because you cited Starbucks as an example.


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In other words, you want what you have received in the past, rather than what you're being promised now.
Where do we have explicit promises from Disney? You say we should base our expectations on these promises, but I don't see how this is practical.

I can only see implicit promises. The fact that they still use the name "WALT DISNEY World" carries the implicit promise that they are maintaining the business model developed by Walt Disney. I know part of that is moving forward and making changes, but when Walt Disney performs a study of how long people will hold on to trash and situates trash cans accordingly and then, years later, that amount is halved and trash cans are overflowing, it is not unreasonable for the guests to notice and to feel that promises are not being fulfilled.

When I visit in Nov. 2009 and purchase an Orbiting Oreos alcoholic shake from Sci Fi for $10.50 and receive it in a full size glass (approx. 16-20 oz) and then in August of 2010 (9 months later) I order the same item for the same price and receive it in a juice glass (approx. 10 oz.) is not the implicit promise broken? I've ordered the same item, same name, for the same money, only a few months later and I receive 30-40% less.

I can understand price increases, but I feel tricked when I put up the same amount of money and get less.
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Old 08-20-2010, 12:41 PM   #605
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That's not true. There is no such correlation.
Really? Any evidence?
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Old 08-20-2010, 12:47 PM   #606
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Lulu, I must try that drink!

That said, all companies use decreasing portions as a way to adjust for cost increases. The timing may be just because it was time to change and you hit on each side. I understand it stinks, but I just look at is as a sign of the times. Think Breyers ice cream and tuna! I am not discounting your feelings on the situation. It is implicit because of your experience, which is really what the op's point is to begin with, I suppose, lol.

It is disapointing that so many were laid off. I would like to hope they were administration, but I tend to think that way anyway! I hate seeing frontline people taking the fall.
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Old 08-20-2010, 12:50 PM   #607
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Foodwise absolutely YES!!!!!!!!!
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Old 08-20-2010, 12:54 PM   #608
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Lulu, I must try that drink!

That said, all companies use decreasing portions as a way to adjust for cost increases. The timing may be just because it was time to change and you hit on each side. I understand it stinks, but I just look at is as a sign of the times. Think Breyers ice cream and tuna! I am not discounting your feelings on the situation. It is implicit because of your experience, which is really what the op's point is to begin with, I suppose, lol.

It is disapointing that so many were laid off. I would like to hope they were administration, but I tend to think that way anyway! I hate seeing frontline people taking the fall.
haha, I'm making it at home, no more at Sci Fi! I actually make a lot of the recipes I miss (Le Cellier tomato stack, Ohana green beans, etc. ) at home now.

Is Breyer's ice cream smaller than it used to be? I hadn't noticed that yet.

It just seems like a lot of those changes happened at the same time and I would rather a price increase rather than a size decrease, it just seems sneaky to me.

It is so disappointing that people were laid off and it was not administration as much as frontline CMs. In fact my original wedding planner was laid off, too. I emailed her one day to find "no such email address". Disney didn't even call and let me know that she was being let go or anything!! I ended up with a different planner who I adored, but I do wish Disney didn't let so many people go! A LOT of great CMs were lost.
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Old 08-20-2010, 12:55 PM   #609
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not true. I base my expectations on what I have received in the past. I simply expect the same level of service.
I want Disney to continue to deliver the Disney Magic that they have advertised in the past and continue to advertise. I don't think that that will happen though.

Disney has decided to be like other companies, instead of being great at one or two things, own a bunch of companies and do a average job. Putting profit before quality and service is now the standard at all large companies.

Bill
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Old 08-20-2010, 12:57 PM   #610
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With regard to #1: How much does it irritate you to receive what you were promised instead of what you expected, when you expected more than you were promised? What value does it add to your experience to base your expectations on something other than what your supplier is offering? How is it less irritating to be disappointed and disaffected, as opposed to cognizant of what you're promised and what you can reliably count-on receiving?
I'm not following at all...I said it irritated me in regards to other people. I don't expect much, except what I mentioned, but I did forget to mention that I also expect a certain level of safety and security while at the resort as well.

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With regard to #2, the issue is that as long as enough people reward service providers for providing what they provide how they provide it for the price they provide it, they would be idiots to suddenly throw all that success away.
You didn't get my reference - I was speaking about when other posters say this, as has been echoed in this thread - just stop complaining about Disney or stop going! Not sure what success you are speaking about? I fail to see how that has anything to do with what I said.

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The assertion that it is ridiculous to expect what you're promised is a ridiculous assertion.
Again, not sure how this relates to anything that I said. I was referring to the example that I gave, and how it refers to Disney.

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That's a red herring. Presumably your surgeon promised you their best efforts. If they didn't provide you that, then you have every right to be upset.
So, if he/she cuts off your arm instead of your leg, or gives you a tummy tuck instead of a face lift because he feels like saving money, what then?

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You can choose to perceive it as your service provide insulting you, but that's not at all what it is. They're simply not offering what you want.
Again, you missed my point. I wasn't talking about my service provider, but the other posters in the thread. The connection was made between their feelings on the subject that those of us who make our concerns known must have drastically high expectations. Expecting not to have someone else's hair in your room shower, or food in your villa fridge is a reasonable expectation. What happened with the cleaning procedure? I know what happened...less staff in order to save salaries, means the potential for dirty rooms is higher.

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What proof do you have for that? There is no correlation between confidence in products and the offering of discounts.
Well, of course there is. We've already determined that Disney does not discount as a reward, they discount as a way of securing business; therefore, I am saying that if they truly believe that their products are affordable for all families, and they are confident in the prices that they have set for those products, then they wouldn't have to offer discounts to fill rooms. There is a disconnect between their expectations, IMHO. They set prices, and assume that guests will be agreeable to those prices, yet rooms are empty. If all guests were agreeable to those prices at all times, then rooms would not be empty. There were times years ago when Disney offered no discounts at all, yet now, they offer tons of discounts. Years ago, I would expect their confidence, and perhaps their confidence in the economy was much higher than it is now. Like I said, I know many businesses who refuse to offer discounts of any kind - they are very confident in their products and services, and have told me as a customer, that if I expect a discount, they are not going to provide one. Now, it remains to be seen how long they can stay in business during tough economic times like today, but they have told me they are highly confident in their products, and feel that customers should be too.

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Old 08-20-2010, 12:58 PM   #611
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haha, I'm making it at home, no more at Sci Fi! I actually make a lot of the recipes I miss (Le Cellier tomato stack, Ohana green beans, etc. ) at home now.

Is Breyer's ice cream smaller than it used to be? I hadn't noticed that yet.

It just seems like a lot of those changes happened at the same time and I would rather a price increase rather than a size decrease, it just seems sneaky to me.

It is so disappointing that people were laid off and it was not administration as much as frontline CMs. In fact my original wedding planner was laid off, too. I emailed her one day to find "no such email address". Disney didn't even call and let me know that she was being let go or anything!! I ended up with a different planner who I adored, but I do wish Disney didn't let so many people go! A LOT of great CMs were lost.
Where do you get the recipes? Please?!

Breyers container stayed the same, but the amt. was decreased, much to my distress!
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:07 PM   #612
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Where do you get the recipes? Please?!

Breyers container stayed the same, but the amt. was decreased, much to my distress!
There are some great recipes on All Ears but I have all the old cookbooks. I get some great ones from this thread:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread....75103&page=148

As far as the Orbiting Oreos- just get some cookies and cream and add Godiva liqueur until it is thinned out enough to drink. You could also add milk if you didn't want to add so much alcohol.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:10 PM   #613
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I can accept some price increase(reasonable one) OR same price but less product but not BOTH. Take DP, they took appetizer and tip and reduced price for a $1, was that a joke or what. Now they brought DP price up and it just doesn't work for me. I save more money eating OOP ordering what I want. There are plenty examples like that. While I do not have many complains, I see some things I do not like. Take all the offers and discounts away and I am not sure I want to spend so much at all.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:12 PM   #614
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[QUOTE=Tiger926;37898111 We are great guests, with pretty basic expectations - treat us like you have in the past, and if you can't, give us a good reason why not. Charging us a buffet surcharge on June 1st, but not on May 31st, is ridiculous. That is a profit grab, pure and simple. There isn't anymore staff on hand, there aren't anymore food products on the buffet either - pure profit. These little things drive us crazy!

We don't expect Disney to stay the same, nor do we expect to not make a profit. We expect Disney to grow and change...if not, there would only be Magic Kingdom. They must make a profit, or there isn't anymore Disney...but charging $8.00 for a turkey leg because turkey meat has gone up in price is one thing, charging it because you are taking advantage of guests is another, and charging it because you need to make up revenue from other lost divisions within your company, is quite another. I feel that it is more than likely number 2 and 3, since I just paid $1.00 for a bigger turkey leg at the butcher the other day. The Dining Plan has gone up by $10.00 in a few years, not to mention by adding in the absence of appetizer and removal of tips, it's gone up way more! So, how does Disney answer this - by giving it away for free! Brilliant...except for those of us who pay cash. There is a threshold somewhere, and chances are guests are at that level, or Disney wouldn't be giving dining away free for the next year. [/QUOTE]

You hit the nail on the head here.This is what drives me nuts.Contrary to what some posters say on here these types of things are a sleazy way of doing business.Its the old business ethics thing.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:15 PM   #615
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Where do we have explicit promises from Disney?
All over the place. Here's an example, for a standard-standard room at Animal Kingdom Lodge:
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* 2 queen-size beds or one king-size bed
* One day bed
* Ceiling fan
* Private balcony
* Table and chairs
* Vanity area with 2 sinks and bath
* Coffeemaker
* Hairdryer
* High-speed Internet access (for an additional fee)
* Iron, ironing board
* Pack 'n Play playard
* Refrigerator
* Safe
* Voice mail
* Wheelchair-accessible rooms available
Absolutely explicit promises, and if any of those things are missing, you surely have right to ask for them to be provided, and to be upset if they're not provided.

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You say we should base our expectations on these promises, but I don't see how this is practical.
Of course it is practical. You just have to be willing to learn what you're buying, and not project your own perturbations onto what is actually promised.

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I can only see implicit promises.
"Implicit promises" tends to be nothing of the sort, but rather just another way of saying, "What I want." That's the problem.

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I can understand price increases, but I feel tricked when I put up the same amount of money and get less.
But you're doing the tricking to yourself.

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Really? Any evidence?
So you don't have any evidence of a correlation. That's what I said.
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