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Old 11-10-2011, 02:28 PM   #3331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyNY View Post
Glad disney doesn't see universal as six flags but as a competition. Many examples to that, DHS, AK, FA, AVATAR LAND.
So, you may not feel those parks comparable but disney does and therefore hotels are comparable as well even without being universal hotels.
OK... they are competition in the sense that they all compete for tourism dollars in the state of FL. However, Disney offers a more robust, varied, and cross-marketed overall product (parks, hotels, merchandise, film, tv, etc.). Their cross-marketing, along with the Disney legacy and history create a unique product that people are buying: that magical experience... that thing that links them to their childhood filled with Disney memories of one type or another. Disney enjoys far more customer loyalty than these other entities as a result. Disney is the kind of thing that's passed down from generation to generation. In short, I'd be surprised if you find many Six Flag customers with a comparable experience. They do need to keep up with technology wrt rides (and the invest heavily here), and their hotels and other pieces of their offerings need to be roughly competitive with these other entities. BUT... when Disney puts all of these pieces together, the sum total is more than these others offer. Which is why they continue to be able to charge hefty premiums to these other offerings in many cases.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyNY View Post
sorry but we also not idiots and can draw conclusions from very simple numbers.
I'm certainly not suggesting that ANYONE on here is an idiot!! I'm just giving you my little bone fides so that you can get a sense that I'm not an idiot! Data analysis is a skill, though. There are little tool kit things like CAGR, trendlines, competitive analysis, regression, correlation to economic indicators, etc. that analysts have a certain command of (hopefully!!) that most people don't come across in their day-to-day lives. Then there's the experience in pulling it all together to form an overall conclusion. And most people haven't spent months analyzing this stuff on Disney and its competitors. My only desire is to share what I know - for what it's worth.

I said many times that none of this means that I'm right; just that I am approaching it from a different angle, and pretty comprehensively. And NOT merely stating a personal opinion 'cause I like (or don't like) Disney these days. I think that my last post analyzing the trends briefly gets to this point.
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Old 11-10-2011, 02:59 PM   #3332
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Originally Posted by MickeyMinnieMom View Post
I think I captured the answer to this in my last post above (wrote it before I saw this post of yours, flicx).

You are only capturing one side of the equation: price increase. The real question is whether consumers are willing to pay that increased price -- that's what determines whether there continues to be value for the money in a Disney vacation -- demand at current prices.

I mentioned before that historically, Disney customers tend to be extremely loyal -- there is tremendous price inelasticity of demand -- i.e. consumers are willing to bear fairly large increases in price because they view the product (a magical experience) to be extremely unique and thus valuable (as compared with widgets, for instance that have exact substitutes).

With respect to comparables / substitutes... my 2 cents... Universal is comparable in that they are a theme park. They are closer to a Disney product than, say, Six Flags, but they aren't Disney. Again - take it for what it's worth, but I say this after studying Disney Parks SBU and its competition for an entire semester and writing that big 240-page paper (that I got an A+ on ... and in a top business program and finance masters program that I got a 4.0 final average GPA in... and graduated 1st in the class... so I'm not exactly an idiot... is there a "tooting your own horn smiley??) ). I know... it absolutely doesn't mean that I'm right, but it does mean that I combed through A LOT of data, etc. in making these conclusions. And FYI, so have many other marketing and business experts over the years. Disney isn't a model for nothing!
Glad disney doesn't see universal as six flags but as a competition. Many examples to that, DHS, AK, FA, AVATAR LAND.
So, you may not feel those parks comparable but disney does and therefore hotels are comparable as well even without being universal hotels.
sorry but we also not idiots and can draw conclusions from very simple numbers.
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:05 PM   #3333
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My Two cents.

Good Afternoon,

I have been reading this tread and listening to the arguments and I have a few quandaries.

1. prices of hotels also change as what they have to offer changes. (does each WDW Hotel not have WDW to offer and does that not change more and more every year.)
2. Disney wouldnt up there rates if people werent willing to pay for them.
3. we all have to remember that WDW is about a vacation not a hotel. When you are paying for a vacation there is going to be higher costs.
4. What monies does the average person say by staying there? (Car, Parking, Time, Headaches?) even the none tangible is worth money.

I dont think anyone is wrong I think we all have our opinions of things.

Here is my example. Local restaurant in town that I love has been amazing the last few times I have been there It was what I thought was bad food and bad wait staff. Well the last time I went it was perfect. Before the last time if you asked I would say the restaurant went down hill but instead now I say I had a few bad experiences.

We make what we want to out of our vacations. If you focus on price that tells me maybe you cant or shouldn't afford the trip.

We all have bad experiances everywhere and then the next time could be magical So has WDW gone down hill that is your own opinion. In mine I go back so I guess it hasnt.

JMHO
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:15 PM   #3334
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Originally Posted by flicx View Post
Just thought I would throw a few more numbers into the mix.All the talk of hotel prices got me wondering,so I looked in my old birnbaum books and did some comparisons. I found the best available rack rates(regular view) in 1994, 2005 and 2012 just to demonstrate how fast these prices are escalating. So here goes, 1994 rates cont:190.00,poly:195.00,YC and BC:205.00,GF:245.00.Now 2005 rates cont:239.00,poly:299.00,YC and BC:289.00,GF:339.00.Finally 2012 rates cont:315.00,poly405.00,YC and BC:335.00,GF:460.00.I think they are kinda staggering.IMO
Just for reference, that isn't all that much more than plain 'ol inflation over the same period. (not that I'm a fan of resort prices going up)

From 1994 to 2012 (18 years), using your numbers, the average annual price increase for the resorts you list:

Contemporary: 2.8%
Polynesion: 4.1%
Beach Club: 2.8%
Grand Floridian: 3.6%

Inflation during that same period was 2.5%

Only the Poly and GF really outpaced inflation, not by leaps and bounds but still significant. The poly must be a VERY popular resort to command that type of annual price increase over the last 18 years though. That's impressive.

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Old 11-10-2011, 04:00 PM   #3335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyMinnieMom View Post
Disney Domestic Hotel Occupancy by Year:
2005: 83%
2006: 87% (86% for WDW)
2007: 89%
2008: 89% (90% for WDW)
2009: 87%
2010: 82% (no WDW breakout)
2011: 82%


A few things stand out...
- Occupancy down since onset on recession, but stabilizing 2010-2011
- Note that Disney has been adding new DVC resorts in recent years... those new rooms are now included in the total... so this will initially drag % occupancy down, by definition (they build these to meet current demand and to meet projected increases in demand... which haven't happened yet given the economy and limited time)
- Even with new room stock and a bad economy, occupancy only down 7% from 2007-2008 high
-- TAKEN TOGETHER: nothing approaching a sign of decline at this point -- decreases explainable, and figures stabilizing

I do not know how many rooms were added, the only hotel rooms I can think of is new wing for CR and it does not make 7%. New value resort opens in May 2012, so we cannot count it yet.
So sugnificant or not, with increase of 1%, 7% down for hotels means something.
Yes, the remaining visitors do show they would pay a bit more which is evident from Spending/room but we cannot ignore what happen to those 7% and it does make me wonder what will happen when Disney will try to slowly get out of such deep discounts.
I am not suggesting btw that Disney gone downhill because of that. If you read all my posts (which I really not expecting you to do ), you will see that I do not think Disney gone downhill, but I see some not so good changes that make me feel like Disney is not on the top either. Price however is something that worries me as first, I do pay rack price for most of my vacations since I book less then a week in advance and second, because I see some not very good changes in onsite resorts, which makes me personally feel that I can bring my money offsite. While it is my personal opinion, there are people who feel same way and I believe some of them right in those 7%, which we cannot rule out.

BTW, what is wrong with board today? All your responces to my posts somehow appear before my posts and I keep missing them.
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Old 11-10-2011, 04:21 PM   #3336
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Originally Posted by KellyNY View Post
I do not know how many rooms were added, the only hotel rooms I can think of is new wing for CR and it does not make 7%. New value resort opens in May 2012, so we cannot count it yet.
So sugnificant or not, with increase of 1%, 7% down for hotels means something.

Yes, the remaining visitors do show they would pay a bit more which is evident from Spending/room but we cannot ignore what happen to those 7% and it does make me wonder what will happen when Disney will try to slowly get out of such deep discounts.

I am not suggesting btw that Disney gone downhill because of that. If you read all my posts (which I really not expecting you to do ), you will see that I do not think Disney gone downhill, but I see some not so good changes that make me feel like Disney is not on the top either. Price however is something that worries me as first, I do pay rack price for most of my vacations since I book less then a week in advance and second, because I see some not very good changes in onsite resorts, which makes me personally feel that I can bring my money offsite. While it is my personal opinion, there are people who feel same way and I believe some of them right in those 7%, which we cannot rule out.

BTW, what is wrong with board today? All your responces to my posts somehow appear before my posts and I keep missing them.
I definitely get your points. I would posit that the 7% is a combination of weak economy (worst economy since the Great Depression... as the politicians like to remind us!! ), along with the increase in rooms - though granted BLT is a small block on the whole # of rooms. And it's hard to argue with occupancy being steady over the past couple of years despite a 9.8% increase in spending/hotel customer...

I was wondering if the display of posts being messed up was just on my end somehow... odd...

Thanks again for the dialogue here... and I do get what you're saying. We had more monorail issues than ever on our last trip (we go annually), and some other little things seemed to have slipped a bit. But on the whole, for us it's still more than worth it. And I have faith having followed Disney for AGES and studied them more recently that ultimately, leadership makes generally the right calls (expansion, investments in technology, more DVC resorts, etc.). And I do think that the data we have does not indicate decline... yet...

Nice chattin' with ya' today, btw!!
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Old 11-10-2011, 04:23 PM   #3337
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How does comparing rack rates over the decades at disney and other area resorts contain no real information? I believe it shows mathematically what percentage the cost has increased.These are real numbers not made up.Some try the lame arguement that few pay rack rate,that again is a bad arguement,when disney offers a discount it is a percentage off rack rate.Thus the increase in rack rate is very important! Also making a comparison with another major next door theme park(universal) is a very valid thing to do.Getting a grasp on price hikes and comparing them with the current state of disney is pertinent to the discussion of whether or not disney is going downhill.
I have no idea why I'm biting, but oh well. Here it goes.

As I said earlier in this thread, I think using numbers is a red herring tactic as they can be used to make any point you want. What truly matters is how customers feel as to whether they spend $1,000 or $10,000 or even zero at the parks and resorts.

There is no overall empirical evidence in my opinion that says that Disney is declining. Calling arguments names such as "lame" doesn't change that fact.

For the sake of argument, let's say we want to resort to numbers to try to prove a point. Taking one piece of data (i.e. rack rates) is but one small component of the overall picture. First, rack rates going up doesn't mean customers are paying more. I think customers are paying more based on the spending per night figures that Disney publishes so there is some validity in rate increases. However, we have no idea how much exactly for each category of room. We just know that overall they are going up.

Occupancy has remained strong for Disney. It has gone down, but Disney even said that they are happy with higher rates per night and small declines in occupancy than they are with increased occupancy and lower rates per night.

Now that we agree that rates have gone up, what does that tell us. It's a matter of interpretation. If I understand you correctly, you have concluded that Disney quality has suffered and prices have gone up, so thus, Disney World overall has gone downhill. I understand this argument, but I do disagree with it. I don't believe that Disney quality has suffered like you have said. Quality is a subjective term and there is absolutely no way to get agreement on this issue. And a long thread with a miniscule percentage of the participants of a message board with less than 3% of the total Disney visitors on it is not a representative sample IMO that can make this conclusion.

I guess this is just a long-winded (and rambling) way to say that it's all just a matter of opinion. Doesn't mean that you're wrong. But it also doesn't mean you're right. JMHO
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Old 11-10-2011, 04:30 PM   #3338
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Originally Posted by KellyNY View Post
I do not know how many rooms were added, the only hotel rooms I can think of is new wing for CR and it does not make 7%. New value resort opens in May 2012, so we cannot count it yet.
So sugnificant or not, with increase of 1%, 7% down for hotels means something.
Yes, the remaining visitors do show they would pay a bit more which is evident from Spending/room but we cannot ignore what happen to those 7% and it does make me wonder what will happen when Disney will try to slowly get out of such deep discounts.
I am not suggesting btw that Disney gone downhill because of that. If you read all my posts (which I really not expecting you to do ), you will see that I do not think Disney gone downhill, but I see some not so good changes that make me feel like Disney is not on the top either. Price however is something that worries me as first, I do pay rack price for most of my vacations since I book less then a week in advance and second, because I see some not very good changes in onsite resorts, which makes me personally feel that I can bring my money offsite. While it is my personal opinion, there are people who feel same way and I believe some of them right in those 7%, which we cannot rule out.

BTW, what is wrong with board today? All your responces to my posts somehow appear before my posts and I keep missing them.
Wow. Booking less than a week out. I have my vacations for 2012 and 2013 already booked. My 2012 vacation has been booked since October 2010. Since we are DVC, I booked the land portion on the 11 month window exactly. We are waiting until the 11 month window for our 2013 vacation. I think I'd go crazy waiting to book not knowing when we can go next.

Second - I've seen that phenomenon before. About three years ago, I participated on an extremely active meet thread for a cruise. We had about 10 to 15 pages per day, and often more. There were many times where we saw this exact thing happen. Posts hit out of order so the reply was posted before the question/original post. It became really annoying as we hit our different "000" thresholds as we had a little contest for those who were the "x,000" post in the thread. This thread is getting to the point where we could have the same contest.
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Old 11-10-2011, 04:30 PM   #3339
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Just for reference, that isn't all that much more than plain 'ol inflation over the same period. (not that I'm a fan of resort prices going up)

From 1994 to 2012 (18 years), using your numbers, the average annual price increase for the resorts you list:

Contemporary: 2.8%
Polynesion: 4.1%
Beach Club: 2.8%
Grand Floridian: 3.6%

Inflation during that same period was 2.5%

Only the Poly and GF really outpaced inflation, not by leaps and bounds but still significant. The poly must be a VERY popular resort to command that type of annual price increase over the last 18 years though. That's impressive.

Dan
Actually if you look at post 3320.I said I thought the most significant increases have occured since 05.
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Old 11-10-2011, 04:42 PM   #3340
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I think I captured the answer to this in my last post above (wrote it before I saw this post of yours, flicx).

You are only capturing one side of the equation: price increase. The real question is whether consumers are willing to pay that increased price -- that's what determines whether there continues to be value for the money in a Disney vacation -- demand at current prices.

I mentioned before that historically, Disney customers tend to be extremely loyal -- there is tremendous price inelasticity of demand -- i.e. consumers are willing to bear fairly large increases in price because they view the product (a magical experience) to be extremely unique and thus valuable (as compared with widgets, for instance that have exact substitutes).

With respect to comparables / substitutes... my 2 cents... Universal is comparable in that they are a theme park. They are closer to a Disney product than, say, Six Flags, but they aren't Disney. Again - take it for what it's worth, but I say this after studying Disney Parks SBU and its competition for an entire semester and writing that big 240-page paper (that I got an A+ on ... and in a top business program and finance masters program that I got a 4.0 final average GPA in... and graduated 1st in the class... so I'm not exactly an idiot... is there a "tooting your own horn smiley??) ). I know... it absolutely doesn't mean that I'm right, but it does mean that I combed through A LOT of data, etc. in making these conclusions. And FYI, so have many other marketing and business experts over the years. Disney isn't a model for nothing!
*
Actually, your data is flawed. I'm sorry, Master's Degree or not; how can you have "absolute" concrete "DATA" when Disney doesn't even really give us correct numbers/data? Your analysis in MY OPINION is flawed, or null and void.

With that said, if Disney was projecting great occupancy rates they would not have the FREE DINING offer 9 months out of the year. They also would not have FREE DINING during various holiday periods. They have never done this before in years past, EVER. They are doing this to BRING in more people to occupy their resorts. With that said, there is still much available vacancy rates where as years ago there would be close to zero vacancy.

Another thing, Disney as a "WHOLE" is a great vacation. We all agree to that. Some things, though are in a decline, maybe this is not noticed by your newcomer or newbie, but plenty of people that go to Disney once a year or once every 2 years have noticed a decline ON SOME THINGS. These "THINGS" are food, some restaurants, monorail issues, some of the resorts, mousekeeping, holiday decorations etc. We have noticed on this DIS board about some of the complaints. A few years back complaints were very low and were not as prevalent as they are now. People are starting to notice. BUT, as I said at the same time Disney as a whole is a great place. We keep going back, as do most people on this very thread. We just don't go to certain restaurants, we don't do the "parties" in the MK, so we do show our concern in various ways with our wallet.

Brunette
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Old 11-10-2011, 04:42 PM   #3341
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Quote:
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*
Actually, you're data is flawed. I'm sorry, Master's Degree or not. How can you have "absolute" concrete "DATA" when Disney doesn't even really give us correct numbers/data? Your analysis in MY OPINION is flawed, or null and void.
I really am not sure what to say to this... I'm positive that I never said that I have "absolute concrete data"... not even sure what that would mean... the data is Disney's, not "mine"... and I'm not sure what you mean about Disney not giving us correct numbers/data. Am I right to assume you mean they don't give detailed or complete enough data for a full analysis to be perfect? If that's what you mean, I agree with you... and NO COMPANY does... 10-K's are deliberately opaque as to not divulge things like marketing practices that confer a competitive advantage. Analysts have to work with the data they do have... like what was posted earlier. They use that, and not individual observations for a reason. While not perfect, it allows for more solid conclusions to be drawn... the types of conclusions that people pay for, for instance.


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Originally Posted by brunette8706 View Post
With that said, if Disney was projecting great occupancy rates they would not have the FREE DINING offer 9 months out of the year. They also would not have FREE DINING during various holiday periods. They have never done this before in years past, EVER. They are doing this to BRING in more people to occupy their resorts. With that said, there is still much available vacancy rates where as years ago there would be close to zero vacancy.
You can't pull these pieces apart... you can't view the marketing strategy of offering free dining without looking at the pricing strategy of resorts, without looking at the pricing of merchandise, without looking at film releases, without looking at economic projections, and on, and on. You cannot view one piece of data in isolation and expect to come to any real conclusion. It's just more complicated than that, especially with a big cross-marketer like Disney. The best proxy for getting ALL of this information reflected is to look at the aggregate numbers in the 10-K... the figures I analyzed in another post today. Not perfect, but better than citing free dining at a given point in the year -- IF the goal is to view this as objectively and completely as is realistically possible.


Quote:
Originally Posted by brunette8706 View Post
Another thing, Disney as a "WHOLE" is a great vacation. We all agree to that. Some things, though are in a decline, maybe this is not noticed by your newcomer or newbie, but plenty of people that go to Disney once a year or once every 2 years have noticed a decline ON SOME THINGS. These "THINGS" are food, some restaurants, monorail issues, some of the resorts, mousekeeping, holiday decorations etc. We have noticed on this DIS board about some of the complaints. A few years back complaints were very low and were not as prevalent as they are now. People are starting to notice. BUT, as I said at the same time Disney as a whole is a great place. We keep going back, as do most people on this very thread. We just don't go to certain restaurants, we don't do the "parties" in the MK, so we do show our concern in various ways with our wallet.

Brunette
I agree with you 110% here!! It is about the WHOLE package!! And you know, Disney has people everywhere monitoring customer feedback in a gazillion (technical term ) ways, right?! So this talk on here is something they might just take notice of... might just inform some of their thinking... like bringing in some new chefs, or making some other tweaks back to past standards when the economy picks up more and cash is really flowing (*fingers crossed*!).

Nice chatting with you, too (like with KellyNY today), though I fear I have &*#$%ed you off...

Talk to all you "downhillers" another day!! Time for dinner!
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Old 11-10-2011, 05:37 PM   #3342
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Yes,Disney has gone downhill recently.No more daily concerts at the Flower and Garden festival,ESPN the weekend is now a thing of the past,Grad Nite is now a thing of the past,even though they haven't had it for several years they also removed the Super Soap Weekend.The Lights of Winter at Epcot were removed with no replacement,they also had a tree lighting show there that's also gone.Removing all the clubs at Pleasure Island and having them just sit empty for about a decade,finally they decide to do something and it stalls again.And then you have really customer friendly decisions like that new TS cancellation policy.I'm a huge Disney and theme park fan and Disney obviously is the big fat cash cow in the theme park world,people keep coming and they keep removing events,not expanding the parks the way a company that makes as much money as they do should be and I know people will still be coming,but if a day comes when attendance and profits begin to drop they can only blame themselves,the problem is that they know this and why the new Fantasyland area is being built,to make up for all the downgrades they know they've been putting out there.
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Old 11-10-2011, 05:52 PM   #3343
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I think that we agree... mostly...

I actually think that people here are answering two different questions...
1) is Disney worth it anymore TO YOU?, and
2) is an opinion that Disney is in decline one that is WIDESPREAD enough to actually be a sign of a firm in decline?

In other words, has Disney declined IN YOUR EYES and/or in the eyes of ENOUGH CUSTOMERS to be a sign of "a company in decline", if you will.

There is NO SUCH THING as proof for or against 1)... it's all a matter of us each sharing our opinions about how our family has appraised the value of a Disney vacation these days, as compared to the past.

With question 2), there are data to cite that can either strengthen or weaken a case that enough customers find the COST of a Disney vacation to have EXCEEDED IT'S VALUE over time. Here, this becomes a task for a business / financial analyst -- whom of course we can step in and take the place of IF we actually analyze the FACTS and not our OPINIONS.

For my piece...
1) For our family, the value continues to be there in a Disney vacation at current costs -- and even higher, quite frankly. The price we place - and are willing and able to pay - for a magical experience like no other is quite high. Still worth it in my PERSONAL OPINION

2) As someone who has conducted a thorough business and financial analysis of Disney about one-and-a-half years ago, and having reviewed the data posted in this thread, I see no objective evidence that Disney or Disney Parks SBU is in decline. The data simply don't support that thesis in my PROFESSIONAL opinion.


To be sure, business/financial analysis is not a perfect "science"... if it was, we could find the "best analyst" and routinely beat the stock market!! And as I said before, my professional analyst's opinion could prove to be COMPLETELY wrong in the long run. But it IS NOT "just a personal opinion" born out of personal experience or a hope or preconceived notion that Disney isn't going downhill.Sooo... two separate things... 1) personal experience and opinion, and 2) analytical opinion based upon the data and analytical experience.Whew!! Got it all out... here's hoping it makes some sense...


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MIckeyMinnieMom-

With all due respect your analyse above you state that your analytical opinion based upon the "DATA" and analytical experience. It just doesn't make sense. Disney doesn't really give us concrete solid numbers/data. There are so many ways to slice and dice data and many have dependencies that I feel is way too complex to even comprehend it, let alone input it here on this forum. What I'm saying and what the premise of this thread is about, is PERSONAL experience. Yes, in my opinion things have declined a bit at Disney. Now mind you, not everything, "SOME" things. Like I said overall the Disney vacation is a very magical experience. But there are some things like I mention above that have been on the decline. I'm not making this up. We've read about it here on the DIS board. I will reiterate once again, what they are:

Food
Restaurants
Monorail issues
Bus issues
Lack of decorations
Ticket pricing

These are just a few. There have been more and more complaints on this very board about most of the above issues. I think with the economy the way it is, Disney is cutting back, at the same time they are raising their prices across the board. Further this is not a Disney BASH THREAD, it's merely an observation from thousands of people that have noticed this type of thing. The latest negative I read about was last week in the Baltimore Sun TRAVEL SECTION. Someone wrote to the paper complaining about the way the CM and the DVC treated a customer who paid THOUSANDS OF $$$$$$ for their Timeshare. I will try to find a link.

Brunette
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Old 11-10-2011, 06:34 PM   #3344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunette8706 View Post
[/B]

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MIckeyMinnieMom-

With all due respect your analyse above you state that your analytical opinion based upon the "DATA" and analytical experience. It just doesn't make sense. Disney doesn't really give us concrete solid numbers/data. There are so many ways to slice and dice data and many have dependencies that I feel is way too complex to even comprehend it, let alone input it here on this forum. What I'm saying and what the premise of this thread is about, is PERSONAL experience. Yes, in my opinion things have declined a bit at Disney. Now mind you, not everything, "SOME" things. Like I said overall the Disney vacation is a very magical experience. But there are some things like I mention above that have been on the decline. I'm not making this up. We've read about it here on the DIS board. I will reiterate once again, what they are:

Food
Restaurants
Monorail issues
Bus issues
Lack of decorations
Ticket pricing

These are just a few. There have been more and more complaints on this very board about most of the above issues. I think with the economy the way it is, Disney is cutting back, at the same time they are raising their prices across the board. Further this is not a Disney BASH THREAD, it's merely an observation from thousands of people that have noticed this type of thing. The latest negative I read about was last week in the Baltimore Sun TRAVEL SECTION. Someone wrote to the paper complaining about the way the CM and the DVC treated a customer who paid THOUSANDS OF $$$$$$ for their Timeshare. I will try to find a link.

Brunette
Thousands of people? This thread has approximately 500 separate posters. The top 25 constitute over 71% of the posts. And some of the Top 25 are posting opposite opinions.

Someone posted on the DIS a few months back that the DIS only constitutes less than 3% of the total Disney visitors.

A few complaints from a couple of hundred posters is not evidence of decline. It's statistically insignificant.

And to quote an Op ed piece as evidence of decline is okay to post on this thread, but it's not okay to quote audited financial results?

I normally think most of your posts are reasonable and thoughtful, but this one seems a bit extreme. JMHO and sorry if I offended.
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Old 11-10-2011, 06:48 PM   #3345
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Originally Posted by KSDisneyDad View Post
Thousands of people? This thread has approximately 500 separate posters. The top 25 constitute over 71% of the posts. And some of the Top 25 are posting opposite opinions.

Someone posted on the DIS a few months back that the DIS only constitutes less than 3% of the total Disney visitors.

A few complaints from a couple of hundred posters is not evidence of decline. It's statistically insignificant.

And to quote an Op ed piece as evidence of decline is okay to post on this thread, but it's not okay to quote audited financial results?

I normally think most of your posts are reasonable and thoughtful, but this one seems a bit extreme. JMHO and sorry if I offended.
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I don't think it's extreme at all, to the contrare. What I am trying to relay ad nausem is that there are plenty of people and yes I would say in the thousands that have complained. For one there have been numerous complaints about the parties and decorations, numerous complaints about the monorail issues. There have been complaints in news papers and we hear more and more complaints on the DIS board. I'm sure Disney gets a lot of complaints that we don't even hear about. So, yes, my guess would be that the number would be in the thousands.

I'm sorry if I offended you, but I didn't think my post was that "extreme". I also really didn't like that fact that I was called a "downhiller". Gee, if you were offended by my post I'm sorry.

Brunette
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