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Old 10-17-2011, 08:47 AM   #3001
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T E N miles?! Wah ha ha ha! Sorry but I find that funny. I drive 19 miles to WORK every day. If you lived in a sparsely populated place like Kansas, sometimes, you have long distances to drive for the most mundane stuff on a regular basis.
I know, right. I live in Brooklyn, NY, everything is pretty close but I drive to work on everyday basis 10 miles each way. Takes me 30 min with morning traffic, 15 min without. 10 miles is nothing to me, esp. when I know how long bus, boat, monorail takes, due to all waiting and multiple stops, walking to DHS from Epcot area or crossing Epcot to get to monorail is not my idea of saving time but everyone is different.
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:09 AM   #3002
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Are you both serious? Just because we are still discussing, does not mean we are being negative and can't move on. On the contrary, if there are still things to discuss, why not continue to discuss them in a friendly and informative manner? I am very far from a negative person, but I love to discuss, especially when it's about Disney.

And sorry, people move on because they get easily bored and move on to other things. Many people on the DIS seem to have short attention spans, as so many of them don't even read through the thread before posting in it.
I'm sorry, but I don't think I ever said that anyone was being negative. I said that it was the same bunch of people discussing and restating the points they'd made on page one (which I think is basically true) and that perhaps the uphill people had made their points and moved on. I didn't say anything was negative, nor did I say that you guys "couldn't" move on, only that perhaps the others did.

I also don't agree that "people move on because they get easily bored". Some people, sure. But a lot of people move on because they've made their point and choose to not continue the discussion once they've done so. It doesn't mean they're "easily bored" -- it just means that they've made their point and they're satisfied with that.

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Old 10-17-2011, 09:12 AM   #3003
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That is a good rate for the Waldorf too, and it is very deluxe, as you pointed out. But again, Disney is competing with no one, whereas the offsite hotels have to compete with Disney. There are people who will only stay onsite, and they pay whatever price is listed - we've met many of these guests. But nowadays, there are a zillion rooms in Orlando, so more rooms to fill, means more aggressive promos for offsite hotels as they compete with onsite and private homes too. It is amazing to me just how many rooms are available in Orlando, so really, there seems to be a price point for everyone, which is great! It is good for the consumer to be able to get good deals!

I disagree, I think Disney is competing just as off sites and the bright example is all those discounts they run. When there are so many hotels just outside the property, there is competition and they should be very careful about what they do.
I do not believe there are many people who will pay anything just to be onsite. Lets not forget that onsite hotels are not that amazing and onsite perks can be easily skipped by many. I do believe there are some hard core fans of onsite but not to the point of Disney relying on them when raising prices. Everything got a price and I know many people with high income who will not pay extra unless they absolutely have to even so they can easily afford it
Bottom line, situation with Orlando hotels is very different from what it used to be 40 years ago and closing eyes on it is a huge mistake.
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:23 AM   #3004
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It appears that this thread also gets longer as we debate why it still is going.HoweverI think the complaint threads have really been on the increase lately,and this one discusses that.So it will keep going.Yes there are some side discussions like this one,but its primary purpose has stayed true,IMO thanks to alot of not so smart decisions on disneys part! In staying with that spirit I disagee that the monorail thing will go away unless they go back to the way things were.They are cheapening the deluxe/monrail resort stay.Yet another reason IMO disney has gone a little more downhill. Please feel free to debate it,but beware you may be accused of cultivating a negative venue!
I don't need to debate it. I agree that taking the monorail to a different schedule makes the resorts on the monorail line less worthy of their pricing. I don't ever stay on property, so it doesn't hit me personally, but when people ask me for recommendations, I now find myself providing disclaimers about the monorail system. And that bugs me.

However ... the history of this board has shown that things that people were incredibly passionate about when they first happened, die down as more and more people get used to them. Things become "old news" and other topics move to the top. And, as I said, those specific complaints begin to be resurrected in more general threads, like this one. No one is complaining about PI on dedicated PI threads any more, but it pops up fairly regularly when people ask about ways Disney has slipped or "What do you Miss?" or similar topics. Same with all sorts of other stuff. Even this thread doesn't have a marquee complaint to build on -- it's a discussion of general ways that people think Disney has slipped. Someone could come here and complain about the napkins being smaller at the French restaurant in Epcot and it would have the same weight as someone complaining about housekeeping at the Grand Floridian or the price of tickets. All complaints work in this forum, which is why it sticks around.

The conversation -- give or take a few posters who keep trying to stir things up but never really succeed -- has been pleasant and interesting and civil. Occasionally someone says something that someone else takes issue with, but that all goes away in a page or two. And, as I said earlier, even if Disney management stopped making bad decisions in your eyes, they'd still be making bad decisions in someone else's opinion. So there's really never going to be a point in the future when complaint threads will go away.

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Old 10-17-2011, 09:23 AM   #3005
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I have been disappointed in the change in Christmas decorations. I miss the lighted arch in EPCOT and the Country Bears Christmas Show. When I asked why they disappeared I was told they felt they needed to change. The arch was replaced with a singing group, altho they were good I really miss the lights. How can you ever tire of Christmas lights? I don't.
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:23 AM   #3006
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Pirate Jeff does it again. He puts into words so eloquently what others are feeling.

I love Disney, I love the whole experience. I would love to be able to go far more often than I do. However, I am not blind to problems and will tell it like it is. I will relate my experiences with Le Cellier as an example.

We had heard how great this restaurant was and that you really should try it. We'd also heard that reservations were needed far in advance to eat there. The sad part is that we heard this while at WDW and not from the TA who booked our trip.

We happened to be in Epcot on a very rainy afternoon. The park had emptied out. As we walked past LC, my dh thought he'd ask if there was any availability. The host called back to the restaurant and they told us to come on in. We were seated in less than 5 minutes.

We had a great waitress and ordered our meals. The party next to us was served their meal. One "gentlemen" had ordered the filet. It is served on a bed of risotto in a "bowl". The guy went completely nuts and refused to eat it because of the bowl. The poor server tried joking with him to get him to settle down. He went more nuts. She then offered to take it to the kitchen and plate it for him. He stood up and left. His wife and other companions ate quickly and left. They did not pay for jerks meal. The server had to pay for it out of her own pocket.

Our meal came out. The food was wonderful. Despite the actions of the jerk, we had a great meal and enjoyed ourselves immensely. We vowed that we'd come back.

The next year when we knew we were going, we made a ressie for my dad's bday. The food again was marvelous. The service was a bit slow, but we were a party of ten and the place was pretty busy. However, my dad was not all that impressed with his meal - yeah, he's fussy. My mom kept griping to me about the server.....whatever mom, I paid for dinner so keep quiet!

We went back this year and at my dd's request made a ressie at LC. We were seated promptly and had a good server. However, the steaks just weren't as good as they were in the past. Not terrible, just not up to the level we'd been served previously. It was just a little disappointing after the two previously outstanding meals. I guess any place could have an off night. My dh and I said that we probably would try something else next time.

We likely won't get back until 2013 and I don't know if I will try to eat there. That is a pretty good chunk of change for something that we didn't feel was really good.

Does that mean LC has gone downhill? I don't know. Maybe it was an off night and maybe they cut some corners and the experience just was not up to par. Our experience was prior to the change to the "signature" status. My last meal there was not "signature".

I understand that everyone has different likes, dislikes, tastes and opinions about the things at WDW. I have enjoyed this thread because for the most part the discussion has been interesting and civil.

If today someone asked me about LC, I would be truthful. I would state that I've had a couple of terrific meals and one okay meal. I would hope to get truthful information from anyone that I asked about something at WDW.
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:32 AM   #3007
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I have been disappointed in the change in Christmas decorations. I miss the lighted arch in EPCOT and the Country Bears Christmas Show. When I asked why they disappeared I was told they felt they needed to change. The arch was replaced with a singing group, altho they were good I really miss the lights. How can you ever tire of Christmas lights? I don't.
I miss the Epcot lights too. They were so gorgeous and in a perfect world we'd get both the lights and the singing group.
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Old 10-17-2011, 10:07 AM   #3008
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I don't need to debate it. I agree that taking the monorail to a different schedule makes the resorts on the monorail line less worthy of their pricing. I don't ever stay on property, so it doesn't hit me personally, but when people ask me for recommendations, I now find myself providing disclaimers about the monorail system. And that bugs me.

However ... the history of this board has shown that things that people were incredibly passionate about when they first happened, die down as more and more people get used to them. Things become "old news" and other topics move to the top. And, as I said, those specific complaints begin to be resurrected in more general threads, like this one. No one is complaining about PI on dedicated PI threads any more, but it pops up fairly regularly when people ask about ways Disney has slipped or "What do you Miss?" or similar topics. Same with all sorts of other stuff. Even this thread doesn't have a marquee complaint to build on -- it's a discussion of general ways that people think Disney has slipped. Someone could come here and complain about the napkins being smaller at the French restaurant in Epcot and it would have the same weight as someone complaining about housekeeping at the Grand Floridian or the price of tickets. All complaints work in this forum, which is why it sticks around.

The conversation -- give or take a few posters who keep trying to stir things up but never really succeed -- has been pleasant and interesting and civil. Occasionally someone says something that someone else takes issue with, but that all goes away in a page or two. And, as I said earlier, even if Disney management stopped making bad decisions in your eyes, they'd still be making bad decisions in someone else's opinion. So there's really never going to be a point in the future when complaint threads will go away.

It is not about old or new news but pretty much about overall direction Disney takes right now.
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Old 10-17-2011, 11:17 AM   #3009
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It is not about old or new news but pretty much about overall direction Disney takes right now.
Yup -- that was my point. That this discussion is general and not specific ... which is why it is still going on. The specific discussions have faded as "old news", but the general discussion of the overall direction Disney is taking is still active.

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Old 10-17-2011, 12:43 PM   #3010
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Yup -- that was my point. That this discussion is general and not specific ... which is why it is still going on. The specific discussions have faded as "old news", but the general discussion of the overall direction Disney is taking is still active.

General?While partially true, I believe there are quite a few specifics that we talk about on a regular basis(see page one list).The list has just been updated thats all.We have added a few more problems /downhill things to the discussion.Monorails recent price increases etc.I sure hope that there isn't much more recent news for us to talk about,as I really don't think that any of us want disney to continue the trend.So what you call old news I call continuing news until it is fixed.
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Old 10-17-2011, 01:06 PM   #3011
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General?While partially true, I believe there are quite a few specifics that we talk about on a regular basis(see page one list).The list has just been updated thats all.We have added a few more problems /downhill things to the discussion.Monorails recent price increases etc.I sure hope that there isn't much more recent news for us to talk about,as I really don't think that any of us want disney to continue the trend.So what you call old news I call continuing news until it is fixed.
I do not see recent update on OP, would be a good idea if Brunette added Monorail Problem as well. Most people read just first page and have no idea what we are even talking about here, probably why this thread is often referred to as negative, who got strength to read all of it.
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Old 10-17-2011, 01:23 PM   #3012
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General?While partially true, I believe there are quite a few specifics that we talk about on a regular basis(see page one list).The list has just been updated thats all.We have added a few more problems /downhill things to the discussion.Monorails recent price increases etc.I sure hope that there isn't much more recent news for us to talk about,as I really don't think that any of us want disney to continue the trend.So what you call old news I call continuing news until it is fixed.
Tomato, tomahto.

I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was simply offering a perspective on why this thread has remained when threads built around a single specific complaint (crowds at MVMCP, PI closing, changes to FD, etc) have faded away after a short burst of activity.

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Old 10-17-2011, 04:37 PM   #3013
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I do not see recent update on OP, would be a good idea if Brunette added Monorail Problem as well. Most people read just first page and have no idea what we are even talking about here, probably why this thread is often referred to as negative, who got strength to read all of it.
Yes I am sure brunette will oblige this request.An update may be in order after as many posts as this thread has recieved.
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Old 10-17-2011, 06:11 PM   #3014
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I'm sorry, but I don't think I ever said that anyone was being negative. I said that it was the same bunch of people discussing and restating the points they'd made on page one (which I think is basically true) and that perhaps the uphill people had made their points and moved on. I didn't say anything was negative, nor did I say that you guys "couldn't" move on, only that perhaps the others did.

I also don't agree that "people move on because they get easily bored". Some people, sure. But a lot of people move on because they've made their point and choose to not continue the discussion once they've done so. It doesn't mean they're "easily bored" -- it just means that they've made their point and they're satisfied with that.

Sorry if I misunderstood, but the way you worded that post seemed to imply that we were just discussing the same points, and so it has made for an old and tired discussion that is no longer valid or relevant.

On the contrary...we are still discussing as we have ideas to share, trip reports or new policy changes (monorail closure, addition of wifi in deluxe resorts), for example. For those of us who have read each and every post in this thread, it is still a relevant discussion, so why not continue to discuss with each other?

Sure there is some overlap or duplication, but that is bound to happen when people are very passionate about something.

We will have to disagree about people becoming bored - so many DIS members don't read the threads they are posting on, and many of them don't continue on if the discussion gets too long. Sure some people move on once they've made their point, but so many get bored of topics very easily and move to another discussion. This thread is huge, so that will scare so many people away from it, which is sad, because there is lots of good info and opinions in here!

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I disagree, I think Disney is competing just as off sites and the bright example is all those discounts they run. When there are so many hotels just outside the property, there is competition and they should be very careful about what they do. I do not believe there are many people who will pay anything just to be onsite. Lets not forget that onsite hotels are not that amazing and onsite perks can be easily skipped by many. I do believe there are some hard core fans of onsite but not to the point of Disney relying on them when raising prices. Everything got a price and I know many people with high income who will not pay extra unless they absolutely have to even so they can easily afford it
Bottom line, situation with Orlando hotels is very different from what it used to be 40 years ago and closing eyes on it is a huge mistake.
I am not saying that Disney should be complacent and arrogant and not offer discounts, but what I am saying is that Disney is the competition that the other hotels are competing with. All of the off-site hotels are trying to secure business from Disney, and they must secure business from Disney as there are far fewer hotels within each brand. The off-site hotels will suffer more with empty rooms than Disney, as Disney has far more rooms, and many different price points for guests to choose. Plus Disney has a pretty much 100% occupancy Vacation Club, which is great for their business.

Your opinion is that on-site hotels are not that amazing, but for millions of guests, on-site is very amazing. Like I said, we know people who only stay on-site, and pay whatever price Disney is asking. Brand loyalty and brand integrity is still pretty high for many guests. This is why we, and many others we know purchased DVC.

You are correct that the Orlando market is vastly different than it used to be, but Disney is still the leader in Orlando. Sure there are lots of other hotels and houses to choose from, but Disney is the competition that all of the other hotels are trying to topple. Honestly, despite what people on this thread believe, it would take a lot to topple Disney in terms of hotel occupancy. So many people will stay at Disney, and only Disney, although there are more empty rooms than before, but that is also because there are more Orlando off-site rooms than ever before too. I wonder when Orlando, including Disney, will reach its hotel saturation point?

Despite all of the competition in Orlando, Disney's hotel rates continue to climb, and I firmly believe that is because they are still getting a huge number of guests staying on-site. We go for 2 weeks each July during peak season, and being DVC, we have stayed everywhere, especially Deluxe resorts that are both cash/DVC, and they are always sold out both cash and DVC. Guests are staying on-site especially during peak seasons. The past few years they have been securing these guests with lots of promos, especially Free Dining, but it works! Just visit the Resort forum when FD comes out, and you'll see the hysteria, and read about sold out resorts within a few days of the FD promotion starting.

Competition makes for a better consumer experience, so it's great that there are lots of Orlando hotels, including Disney, at varying price points. It would be great if Disney room rates were lower across the board, all year round as a direct result of off-site rooms, but there doesn't seem to be a direct correlation during certain times of the year, eg. peak seasons, as Disney still gets guests to pay astronomical rates for Christmas or NYE.

It's all so interesting, and I would love to see the actual numbers! Tiger

Last edited by Tiger926; 10-17-2011 at 06:32 PM.
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Old 10-17-2011, 06:53 PM   #3015
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I do not see recent update on OP, would be a good idea if Brunette added Monorail Problem as well. Most people read just first page and have no idea what we are even talking about here, probably why this thread is often referred to as negative, who got strength to read all of it.
*
HI Kellyny! I think I will make some edits, good idea. Let me get my thoughts together. thanks!

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