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Old 08-11-2010, 10:04 AM   #256
brunette8706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker View Post
I'm sorry but that assertion doesn't make sense. Disney invested a large amount of money to create a Disney-quality facility. I can understand being frustrated that it costs more than you'd like to pay - it's natural for consumers to wish they could pay less for things - but there is no notion by which the construction of this facility could be conceived as matter of reducing costs. If that was their concern, they'd stick with the old kennel or closed the kennel down entirely and tell guests with pets to leave them at a kennel in LBV or at home.

I think this really hits on a major aspect of this discussion: I think guests are just sad that Disney knows how much what they're offering is worth to guests, and that Disney is charging what their services are worth, instead of Disney operating as a charity to its guests.

You shouldn't. You should only concern yourself with what they offer and whether it is worth purchasing or not. If it is worth it, then vacation at WDW. If it isn't worth it, then don't vacation there. ZeroMyHero hit on something last night: A rational person's appraisal of something should match their actions. If Disney wasn't worth what they were offering, then we wouldn't have all the threads clamoring about how hard it is to get this-or-that ADR; we wouldn't have any threads about "What happens when they close the Magic Kingdom due to capacity?" ... and so on.
**
Hi Bicker-


I think at the end of the day, you're missing the point. I've read through your many thoughtful posts laced with multi-syllable words and your own subjective conclusions. I take issue with some of your conclusions which you present as factual and "objective". They are not I assure you. They are as subjective as mine or many of the other folks who've responded to this point.

The OP was presented as an opinion and the question directed at asking members what they "think". With all due respect, you are in no position to tell any of these guests that they are wrong in their "opinions". Bottom line, each one of us has a God given right of "free will".

I don't need to be a Rhodes Scholar to know when service I receive is sub-par or when a corporation is taking advantage of it's customers. My basis is my years of experience visiting Disney. All of my own statements, such as the price increases and some less than good experiences with CM's, are real. Other members whom have posted offer similar experiences. You can paint it any way you like but at the end of the day, customers are becoming unhappy with the changes taking place at Disney World.

My DH works in the publishing industry and one facet of his industry, is advertising through 3rd Class Mail. A few years ago, the USPS decided to raise their rates on 3rd Class Mail with the obvious intention, of increasing their revenue by the 12% they raised costs. What they didn't take into consideration however, was the 50% loss in volume they would realize because of their gouging. Most 3rd class customers found other venues or simply went out of business because of it. The USPS later made a statement that "the economy" was responsible for the decrease in volume which at the time, was false as the economy was still growing. We all know now where the USPS stands in terms of profitability.

Point is, you can only increase prices so long and so much. Disney is following that same business model. They will continue to increase prices until they find the breaking point. A turkey leg in 2005 cost: $4.99. Today, it's: $7.69. The price of admission was approximately: $62.00. Today, it's: $82.00. Those increases are considerably above the rate of inflation and there are many more examples of how the prices are going up, inexplicably.

We love Disney and both my DH and I are doing well financially but at this rate, we will not be willing to patronize Disney the same as we have for years. It simply is getting too expensive.
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Old 08-11-2010, 10:28 AM   #257
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I wouldn't mind the cost increases so much if Disney used the money to clean up the facilities, improve the food in the restaurants, and did a better job staffing. They made over a billion dollars profit last quarter and they are still cutting programs and increasing prices.

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Old 08-11-2010, 11:12 AM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunette8706 View Post
A turkey leg in 2005 cost: $4.99. Today, it's: $7.69.
That boggles my mind.

That stood out to me. I agree with the rest of your post. I do want to add that with "free" dining and other incentives that I don't necessarily agree that WDW costs more to many guests. How many I don't know but we have gone offsite to save money. (We get free hotel nights on points.) People have ways of coping....so far.
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Old 08-11-2010, 11:17 AM   #259
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I have thought for several years now that Disney has very little use for repeat customers. They are after the first time tourist that will buy all the crappy merchandise, eat all the overpriced food and never know the difference! The touist will leave relatively happy, since Disney parks are still the best. And they will leave lots of money in Disney hands. All of us Disney freaks know how things have gone down and how to get the most bang for the buck out of our vacations. Disney would rather not have us around!!
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Old 08-11-2010, 11:30 AM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunette8706 View Post
**
Hi Bicker-


I think at the end of the day, you're missing the point. I've read through your many thoughtful posts laced with multi-syllable words and your own subjective conclusions. I take issue with some of your conclusions which you present as factual and "objective". They are not I assure you. They are as subjective as mine or many of the other folks who've responded to this point.

The OP was presented as an opinion and the question directed at asking members what they "think". With all due respect, you are in no position to tell any of these guests that they are wrong in their "opinions". Bottom line, each one of us has a God given right of "free will".

I don't need to be a Rhodes Scholar to know when service I receive is sub-par or when a corporation is taking advantage of it's customers. My basis is my years of experience visiting Disney. All of my own statements, such as the price increases and some less than good experiences with CM's, are real. Other members whom have posted offer similar experiences. You can paint it any way you like but at the end of the day, customers are becoming unhappy with the changes taking place at Disney World.

My DH works in the publishing industry and one facet of his industry, is advertising through 3rd Class Mail. A few years ago, the USPS decided to raise their rates on 3rd Class Mail with the obvious intention, of increasing their revenue by the 12% they raised costs. What they didn't take into consideration however, was the 50% loss in volume they would realize because of their gouging. Most 3rd class customers found other venues or simply went out of business because of it. The USPS later made a statement that "the economy" was responsible for the decrease in volume which at the time, was false as the economy was still growing. We all know now where the USPS stands in terms of profitability.

Point is, you can only increase prices so long and so much. Disney is following that same business model. They will continue to increase prices until they find the breaking point. A turkey leg in 2005 cost: $4.99. Today, it's: $7.69. The price of admission was approximately: $62.00. Today, it's: $82.00. Those increases are considerably above the rate of inflation and there are many more examples of how the prices are going up, inexplicably.

We love Disney and both my DH and I are doing well financially but at this rate, we will not be willing to patronize Disney the same as we have for years. It simply is getting too expensive.
Great post!! Well said
Oh, and the ignore function is awesome! just saying
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Old 08-11-2010, 11:53 AM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgsgirl View Post
I have thought for several years now that Disney has very little use for repeat customers. They are after the first time tourist that will buy all the crappy merchandise, eat all the overpriced food and never know the difference! The touist will leave relatively happy, since Disney parks are still the best. And they will leave lots of money in Disney hands. All of us Disney freaks know how things have gone down and how to get the most bang for the buck out of our vacations. Disney would rather not have us around!!
I agree with this - first time or one time visitors will spend more than us regulars, I'm pretty sure of that. They'll add the DP to their MYW package without blinking and spend tons on crappy quality souveniers because they are having a once in a lifetime trip, whereas us regulars, especially DVC members, are showing loyalty to returning to the parks, but not in the extraneous spending that first timers and once in a lifetimers contribute to the bottom line.

As DVC members with a full kitchen in our villa, who are cooking more in our villa than ever before, hardly spending any money on souveniers, and using APs for at least 2x per year (51 weeks apart), our vacations are pretty reasonable.

Disney, like most other businesses, is after first timers and once in a lifetimers, as they will spend, spend and spend. They also don't have any prior experiences in which to compare their vacation to - they don't know how much a turkey leg was a few years ago, nor, how much the Dining Plans are going up each year. And, this is where Disney is king. The whole pixie dust and magic feeling is directed to these guests, of this I will totally agree.

Us regulars, have figured out how to make our vacations cheaper and cheaper each year, despite Disney raising prices, as we know how to do Disney. Disney doesn't make much from us, yet they'll still take our dough. They also probably hope that we keep our mouths shut - threads like this, instead of being looked at as helpful, would probably be frowned upon by Disney execs, as we are all, as regulars, brining up issues that Disney absolutely knows about, but refuses to improve upon.

More profits each quarter, can be directly linked to guest issues in the parks and resorts, and for this, Disney should be taking notice, as eventually, the first timers and once in a lifetimers, might stop coming as much, and who is left? The rest of us, who aren't buying $8.00 turkey legs and $40.00 crappy t-shirts. What will happen then?

Tiger
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Old 08-11-2010, 12:20 PM   #262
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A couple of thoughts-
I think that you have to keep in mind that the basic infrastructure of a good portion of WDW is coming up on 40 years old and is in use on a nearly constant basis. At a certain point the age of the parks can't be hidden behind a coat of paint, and if you were in management's position you would find it impossible to justify CLOSING the parks/hotels to make them look new again.

It's also easy to compare the way things are now to the way you percieved things to be on your very first trip as a child but most people's first Disney trip came with a set of rose colored glasses.

On my first trip to WDW (1976) there was one theme park and two hotels (three counting the Golf Resort). Compare that to the current scope of everything on Disney Property, and then think about how much they do very well in terms of managing the sheer numbers of people that pass thru the gates every day (both CMs and guests).

I miss things about my earlier visits. There was a mystical quality to the place that doesn't seem quite the same. I attribute a good portion of this to the sheer magnitude of the operation and the fact that the entire world has lost some of its competitive edge since the time that Walt laid out his grand plan for Florida.
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Old 08-11-2010, 12:41 PM   #263
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Down Hill

I think one of the biggest problem with Disney and Disney related vacations is the DIS board. I have never heard so many people complain about so much in my life. I have been a member of this board since September 2006 and I have only made roughly 200 posts. This board is so negative I just get turned off and then every so often i get back on to see if things have changed and of course they have only gotten worse. Don't like the parks, the restaurants or parades, then don't go. If you do go, try to look at the positive things instead of the negative. Just saying.
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Old 08-11-2010, 12:47 PM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger926 View Post
I agree with this - first time or one time visitors will spend more than us regulars, I'm pretty sure of that. They'll add the DP to their MYW package without blinking and spend tons on crappy quality souveniers because they are having a once in a lifetime trip, whereas us regulars, especially DVC members, are showing loyalty to returning to the parks, but not in the extraneous spending that first timers and once in a lifetimers contribute to the bottom line.

As DVC members with a full kitchen in our villa, who are cooking more in our villa than ever before, hardly spending any money on souveniers, and using APs for at least 2x per year (51 weeks apart), our vacations are pretty reasonable.

Disney, like most other businesses, is after first timers and once in a lifetimers, as they will spend, spend and spend. They also don't have any prior experiences in which to compare their vacation to - they don't know how much a turkey leg was a few years ago, nor, how much the Dining Plans are going up each year. And, this is where Disney is king. The whole pixie dust and magic feeling is directed to these guests, of this I will totally agree.

Us regulars, have figured out how to make our vacations cheaper and cheaper each year, despite Disney raising prices, as we know how to do Disney. Disney doesn't make much from us, yet they'll still take our dough. They also probably hope that we keep our mouths shut - threads like this, instead of being looked at as helpful, would probably be frowned upon by Disney execs, as we are all, as regulars, brining up issues that Disney absolutely knows about, but refuses to improve upon.

More profits each quarter, can be directly linked to guest issues in the parks and resorts, and for this, Disney should be taking notice, as eventually, the first timers and once in a lifetimers, might stop coming as much, and who is left? The rest of us, who aren't buying $8.00 turkey legs and $40.00 crappy t-shirts. What will happen then?

Tiger
I'm not sure if I buy this. I'm no where near a Disney defender or apologist but your post is acting like DVC members and constant Disney goers found a loophole in Disney's system by bypassing the expensive parts and creating an affordable vacation. Disney PROVIDED these alternative options for frequent visitors to make your vacations affordable while staying on-site. They even have t.v. shows and DVD's on how to make your trip more affordable. It's not the loyal guests vs. the one time visitors. I know many loyal guests (myself included) who spend alot of money each time they go and I know people who went one time on a budget because they wanted to experience the magic without spending tons of money. Like I said before, an inexpensive vacation to Disney 10-15 years ago was unheard of in many parts of America. Now Disney has provided more options for alot of other families to go, many of which are DVC members because it's more attractive and affordable. Even the discounts Disney hands out would be unheard of years ago. Prices go up everywhere and it's great you cook and save your money on vacation, but it's certainly not the norm with every loyal disney goer.
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Old 08-11-2010, 12:56 PM   #265
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my personal notices are the same with a few others:

1. Party quality. MNSSHP and Food and wine in particular.
Disney used to have nice setups at entrances for both of these.
Now at the Food and Wine there are plywood cutouts that look horrendous

2. MNSSHP has year after year in the last few years cut back performances and most of all cut back on fireworks they used to be so good now they are blah. Timed them on video camera from 2002 at 26minutes
2009 Hallowwishes was a mere 12 minutes and they basically sucked.
However the prices went from 2002 @ 35.00 to 2010 @ 64.99
How do they justify that?

3. instead of repairing a beatiful boat at the yacht club dock they just gave it a burial and is never to be seen again. That would be breathless.

4. Yes the food quality....One in particular. we used to LOVE going to Cali Grill. after 2009 its become our least favorite restaurant. WIll prob never go again.

5. Merchandise quality. This is a good bad though, cause we have seriously learned to basically spend NOTHING at a park.

6. Concerning Merchandise. Even the merchandise at the Art of Disney
is blah in this day and age...Nothing eye catching anymore...
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Old 08-11-2010, 12:59 PM   #266
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I skimmed the 250+ posts on this thread and only really have this to add.

If you are that unhappy with Disney, stop going. If you are a DVC owner, then sell your DVC. If you have seen Disney go through these "horrible" changes, then you must have bought into DVC at a pretty decent rate anyway.

If you really think Disney has gone down hill that much why keep going?

We just enjoyed our fifth Disney trip in May and the fifth one was better then the first four. I don't know how they do it, but every trip seems to get better for us.
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Old 08-11-2010, 01:01 PM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacpl View Post
i skimmed the 250+ posts on this thread and only really have this to add.

If you are that unhappy with disney, stop going. If you are a dvc owner, then sell your dvc. If you have seen disney go through these "horrible" changes, then you must have bought into dvc at a pretty decent rate anyway.

If you really think disney has gone down hill that much why keep going?
.
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Old 08-11-2010, 01:18 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by dawgsgirl View Post
I have thought for several years now that Disney has very little use for repeat customers. They are after the first time tourist that will buy all the crappy merchandise, eat all the overpriced food and never know the difference! The touist will leave relatively happy, since Disney parks are still the best. And they will leave lots of money in Disney hands. All of us Disney freaks know how things have gone down and how to get the most bang for the buck out of our vacations. Disney would rather not have us around!!


Sad to say, I think you are right.

We could be Disney's best ambassadors.
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Old 08-11-2010, 01:20 PM   #269
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Still got my Disney glasses on.. I love it!!!
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Old 08-11-2010, 01:33 PM   #270
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That boggles my mind.

That stood out to me. I agree with the rest of your post. I do want to add that with "free" dining and other incentives that I don't necessarily agree that WDW costs more to many guests. How many I don't know but we have gone offsite to save money. (We get free hotel nights on points.) People have ways of coping....so far.
my groceries have gone up a great deal, also.
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