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Old 08-08-2010, 11:10 AM   #166
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I don't agree that Universal did as little as some claim. They built a very complex new ride and added a restaurant and quite a few shops. They did retheme a few rides but I understand that the retheming is quite amazing. I'll find out for myself soon though.

That aside (because what Universal does or doesn't do probably shouldn't really affect Disney), I can't see how being nostalgic about WDW really can be negative. I can't come up with anything because I see everything in the past as positive. I don't actually see the changes as particularly negative either except that the food just isn't quite as good and it all costs too much. Those are subjective feelings though.
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Old 08-08-2010, 11:18 AM   #167
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What new things has Disney done?
I mentioned it in my earlier message. If you claim that was too long ago, then defend why it took Universal so long to do WWoHP after their previous "big thing". No theme park opens new multi-million dollar attraction areas every year.

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I don't agree that Universal did as little as some claim. They built a very complex new ride and added a restaurant and quite a few shops.
Precisely as Disney did.

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They working on a new Fantasyland area but we'll see exactly how that goes.
Disney does something big, then Universal, then Disney, etc. See how this works?
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Old 08-08-2010, 11:21 AM   #168
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Remember, IoA added one attraction, along with appropriate stores, and rethemed two older attractions to fit the new HP look. They did not add three new ones. Was changing Alien Encounter to Stitch major?
That all said though, I must say I do enjoy USF/IoA very much, have had an AP there for years. Their technical wizardry is outstanding.....Spiderman, Men in Black, ET, Jurassic Park River Adventure, etc.
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Old 08-08-2010, 11:22 AM   #169
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That all said though, I must say I do enjoy USF/IoA very much, have had an AP there for years. Their technical wizardry is outstanding.....Spiderman, Men in Black, ET, Jurassic Park River Adventure, etc.
They do seem to do more of the whiz-bang attractions, while Disney focuses more on building a less ride-centric vacation experience. Good thing - different strokes...
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Old 08-08-2010, 11:29 AM   #170
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Universal has gotten the shaft over the years so I'm glad they've been in the press so much with Harry Potter. I honestly don't care what people say, there is nothing like what they have in Wizarding World in Disney right now. The area in Universal Harry Potter is completely submersive (one truly feels like they are there).

Disney doesn't have that anymore. Everywhere you go in every park there is some DVC salesperson standing there or Coca Cola ads or some other advertisement being waved in your face.
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Old 08-08-2010, 11:32 AM   #171
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Disney does something big, then Universal, then Disney, etc. See how this works?
I understand how it works but I think that Disney slacked off a bit for a while at least where WDW is concerned. They seemed to concentrate more on other locations but hopefully with the new Fantasyland area and the new Star Tours ( ) that is changing.
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Old 08-08-2010, 01:50 PM   #172
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This. If you think back to the period immediately after 9/11, all of the Orlando-area parks had to implement sudden and drastic changes to try to avoid layoffs--cutting park hours, placing a large number of rides, shops and restaurants into "seasonal closures," letting go of some of the maintenance and cleanliness standards. It was a desperate time for everyone, and acceptance of massive changes in all areas of life was the new reality, and even considered our patriotic duty. Incidentally, that's also when bag checks were implemented--something that Disney had said they would never do because it sets an adversarial tone for the day, but it had to be done for safety, so we accepted it.

IMO, the problem developed when tourism rebounded, but standards didn't. We had all been trained to accept a new normal, one that didn't include pristine bathrooms and gourmet food and jugglers and an utter lack of burned-out light bulbs. Why should Disney have returned to pre-9/11 standards if we the visiting public had come to accept lesser quality? This gave them a golden opportunity to increase profit margins. Not that it's solely Disney, it's a general attitude throughout the tourist sector...and don't even get me started on the security theater at airports...full body scans? Really? But that's a different topic.

Of course quality has gone downhill. We've learned to accept this messed up "new normal" throughout our lives, and Disney would be stupid not to take advantage of it. Until we collectively wake up, that's how things are going to be everywhere.
There have always been seasonal closings of both rides and restaurants.

IMO, the decline started when Disney started outsourcing their housekeeping and when they implemented the Disney Dining Plan and Free Dining. I wish there would be levels of food. Those who pay full price would get the food quality that existed before these plans were put into place. Either that or limit the food choices so that if you want a steak or a lobster you don't get them with discounted dining. Something needs to be done.
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Old 08-08-2010, 03:44 PM   #173
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There have always been seasonal closings of both rides and restaurants.
Of course there have, but never the sheer volume of closures that took place in the weeks after 9/11. I don't blame Disney for that in the slightest, and they were hardly the only ones. Things HAD to change immediately, because tourism screeched to an instantaneous halt. I get that. But things have not been quite right since, and they continue to spiral off in a weird direction nearly nine years later.

bicker brought up the point that there were discussions/complaints about light bulbs and whatnot back in the late 1990s. We also lost Mr. Toad and 20K Leagues during that era, well before 9/11. The issues existed, but 9/11 magnified them, compounded them, and led us as visitors into believing that we SHOULD accept those issues. I don't remember seeing nearly as many Disney apologists, who believe that the company can do no wrong (not calling anyone out specifically), before 2001. Instead, I saw a great number of people calling for change...remember the Save the Toad protests? Back then, when there were issues we fought against them. Now it's just passive acceptance or, even worse, blind defense of the company. THAT is what I believe changed after 9/11.
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Old 08-08-2010, 04:52 PM   #174
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I don't really get people who say WDW hasn't be adding attractions, nor do I understand people who want to take credit away from Universal for what they built.

Clearly, Harry Potter has helped to take IoA to the next level. And clearly, WDW has been constantly adding rides and attractions and still is -- there have been a steady stream of new attractions over the past 10-12 years, including some of the best attractions in the parks.
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Old 08-08-2010, 04:59 PM   #175
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We also lost Mr. Toad and 20K Leagues during that era, well before 9/11.
Yup, I remember how out-of-touch with the reality of the industry many of the people involved in the Save the Toad protest were. It was like they felt that the World revolved around them and their personal preferences.

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I don't remember seeing nearly as many Disney apologists, who believe that the company can do no wrong (not calling anyone out specifically), before 2001.
There aren't many apologists now, at least not in these forums. That's just a scurrilous personal attack that some folks stoop to when they don't have any legitimate objections to people pointing out the vacuous nature of some of the complaints against Disney. How better to try to deflect attention away from how myopic, out-of-touch, or self-centered certain criticisms are, than to try to cast aspersions on the folks pointing out those weaknesses?

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Back then, when there were issues we fought against them. Now it's just passive acceptance or, even worse, blind defense of the company.
Sorry, but I believe your memory is faulty. There are just as many folks tilting at windmills online now as there were then, as compared to in the general population. I think what has changed is that time has afforded us all the history to fall back on, something that we didn't have early-on. There was a belief then that online presence could change the world. Instead, what was learned is that it is just another medium, and that it won't change the results; it'll just have the same results - the appropriate results - arrived at via another means, with the only major impact is just how quickly we may get there.
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Old 08-08-2010, 06:19 PM   #176
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What new things has Disney done? The only huge projects completed recently I'm aware of are new DVC's (which is ridiculous). They working on a new Fantasyland area but we'll see exactly how that goes. I'd be willing to bet the original plans are scaled down to save money.
Why do you feel building DVC is ridiculous? I was lucky to get the room I did for this week...they are totally booked. I am spending money on park tickets, food and souveneirs. DVC brings in a huge amount of revenue. 20% of all villa rooms are held back for cash clients. We traveled with another family during spring break that paid cash for a 1-bed villa at Wilderness Lodge....they spent $600/night. Doesn't seem ridiculous to me.
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Old 08-08-2010, 07:19 PM   #177
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It seems like they are more interested in what the shareholders want, then the quality of service.
Ahem, make that the MAJORITY shareholders.
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Old 08-08-2010, 07:24 PM   #178
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Havent read all the posts, probably wont. And people probably wont ready this one too often

Anywho, IMO it will depend. Disney has always been a leader with new stuff. The problem is the new stuff is getting harder and harder to make, so that means others will be able to use the new stuff at a cheaper price, easier, less research and development. Basically with computers and hydraulics being made the way they are now, you can pretty much 'buy' what you need and make it work. So I dont think it's so much Disney is slacking off it's that other places dont have to 'make' the dreams a reality so much anymore.
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Old 08-08-2010, 09:04 PM   #179
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We have been visiting the parks on a regular basis for 8 years. Prior to that it was a trip here or there. I honestly have not noticed a decline. As a previous poster mentioned, we now have the Magical Express...which at the time of its inception was only supposed to run for a year and they continued it indefinitly. I'm not a savvy business person, but I feel like the reason it was continued was to prevent the masses from renting a car and having the ability to easily exit the DW area and enjoy food, entertainment and shopping elsewhere. Fine by me...I have never left Disney property. It is an escape from reality.....my family loves the immersion. Don't have to worry about driving anywhere. I am taking my 6 yr old daughter down for a quick 4-nighter on Thur. I have no hesitation or worries because I know that Disney will take care of me. We are DVC members and truly love all things Disney.

Also on a side note. My mom and dad were with us on a trip several years ago. My dad has since passed away, but at the time he was battling cancer and developed pneumonia while stay at OKW. My mom called the front desk to ask about transportation to a hospital and within minutes the paramedics and resort manager were at the door. She did not ask for this, they just sent them over. It was determined that my dad would be ok, no need for the hospital and that his Dr. from home called in a perscription which was delivered. The resort took care of everything...and my parents never received a bill. They also received twice daily check-up phone calls from management, allowed my parents to stay longer in the villa and helped my mom schedule a later flight home. That is service!

That is what makes Disney so special. Most of the time, they go above and beyond the call of duty. Is everything always perfect? No, but I have enjoyed every trip to Disney and am not going to let an occasional problem ruin my trip.
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Old 08-08-2010, 10:01 PM   #180
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Now it's just passive acceptance or, even worse, blind defense of the company. THAT is what I believe changed after 9/11.
I have to agree with this!
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