Disney Information Station Logo

Go Back   The DIS Discussion Forums - DISboards.com > Just for Fun > Community Board
Find Hotel Specials & DIScounts
 
facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS UpdatesDIS email updates
Register Chat FAQ Tickers Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read





Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 12-17-2012, 11:13 PM   #2941
Kennywife
Sometimes miracles take a little time
 
Kennywife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: online
Posts: 1,451

My nurse is calling me tomorrow to schedule our patient ed class at the clinic. We will go over Clomid and all its effects, as well as IUI and everything else. Then we go from there.

Excited!!!!!

Any news here?
Kennywife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 07:04 AM   #2942
mrsklamc
I apologize in advance, but what is a click clack?
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Husker living in Hoosierland.
Posts: 9,524

Met with the reprod.endo for the first time yesterday. They've found nothing wrong with me or DH, but he wants to go straight to invitro. I'm totally thrown by this; I thought we had a long road before that. Not sure if I am ready for that. He thinks shots and IUI aren't very effective/worth it. At the same time, DH and I both felt it was too much of a sales pitch. Wondering about getting a 2nd opinion.
mrsklamc is offline   Reply With Quote
|
The DIS
Register to remove

Join Date: 1997
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,000,000
Old 12-18-2012, 08:37 AM   #2943
lovemygoofy
Man I shot myself in the foot
I got new moves and everything ready for some serious tips
No, in case you ever wondered, golf carts can't float
Loved by many!
 
lovemygoofy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: nothing, nothing, nothing....oooh tumbleweed!
Posts: 9,223

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsklamc View Post
Met with the reprod.endo for the first time yesterday. They've found nothing wrong with me or DH, but he wants to go straight to invitro. I'm totally thrown by this; I thought we had a long road before that. Not sure if I am ready for that. He thinks shots and IUI aren't very effective/worth it. At the same time, DH and I both felt it was too much of a sales pitch. Wondering about getting a 2nd opinion.
I don't want to interupt this thread but I have been following your journey. I wanted to give you my story as I felt the same way. I met with three different reproductive endos before finding one I was comfortable with. I had the same issue with the first one being a money maker. I felt very uncomfortable having a financial counseling in addition to the actual medical meeting. It kept being stressed and asked over and over how we would be paying for any in vitro procedures and how many would we want etc.
I knew this place wasn't for me as I was quite emotional and scared at the time anyways.

I ended up finding another doctor in a medical/hospital setting instead of a private practice. I just felt it was better for me because it just wasn't about making some money for trying for a baby.

Good luck to you and I hope you find your own way through this difficult journey.
__________________
Tina
Proud Army Wife


Love doesn't make the world go around, it makes the ride worthwhile...
lovemygoofy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 10:35 AM   #2944
apirateslifeforme
The Next Mrs. Simon LeBon
On a serious note, I have to agree with the pantyhose and buttfloss
Rare. Bloody rare. Still mooing
 
apirateslifeforme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sinking deeper and deeper into Medazzaland
Posts: 8,260

So grateful to have been pointed to this thread. I don't want to hijack it, but I need support/need to vent, etc.

It all began when I started bleeding heavily in August 2011. Saw my GYN 6 weeks later and she was shocked at the amount of bleeding; my iron level had dropped to 6.8. So began the rounds of medications and tests and specialists. The bleeding finally stopped on February 1, 2012, and I found the right RE in March. However, she passed me to another RE because she didn't feel confident in doing a laparoscopy to remove my endometriosis/fibroids/irregular lining/whatever else was in there.

Had my surgery on May 1. My endometriosis was at a level of 116 (apparently stage 4 is a level of 40). The RE removed it all, plus my fibroids. Was then diagnosed with complex endometrial hyperplasia with atypia. Went on progesterone for 3 months to try to shed the lining, then had a D&C in September.

Now, all this time, we were told we HAVE to have a baby as soon as it was all done, and that all my bloodwork and ultrasounds and MRIs showed that everything was open and we should have no problems, except for the fact that we were both 38 as of late July and early August (that seems to be the ONLY block we're up against). So the RE finished up all the surgeries and sent me back to the previous RE, but now he said, "You have to begin IVF immediately" and would only say "you're 38." So we went back to the other RE and she finally explained everything that the surgeon had found, but said that she didn't see any reason why it couldn't happen naturally. I chart temp and mucus, and everything is normal...I use the "smiley face" ovulation test preferred by the RE's office...my bloodwork shows that all hormone levels are completely normal...ultrasound around ovulation shows follicles. Not to mention that we went to the IVF seminar and we're floored by the fees. Even if insurance pays for some of it, we can't afford the "above and beyond"...and our insurance will not pay for prenatal care if a pregnancy results from ART.

So here we are...we were going to try in October, but the RE insisted DH have a semen analysis that required "no sexual activity for 4-5 days;" my positive ovulation came during that time. So we missed that window. We tried in November...our timing was PERFECT, my period was late, and I had all the early symptoms. Then one evening, I started feeling achy in my abdomen - not painful, just heavy and achy. 2 hours later, I passed a lot of tissue (sorry if TMI) and the ache went away (I continued to bleed, but it was like a normal period). This was a Friday night; I spoke to my nurse on Monday morning, and she felt that we conceived but I wasn't able to implant. The RE agreed with her and they ordered Crinone for me, since maybe I'm just low on progesterone. So here comes December...got my positive ovulation (and the other symptoms), did the as required, started using the Crinone...and on the 12th day of using it (out of 15), here comes my period

I'm sorry this is so long, but I feel so hopeless. I know it's only technically been 2 months and it takes longer when you're over 35, but the doctors won't let us take time. We absolutely cannot afford IVF and they don't seem to get that. Something just isn't connecting in there and I don't know if there's something else we should be doing to try to help it along. DH is so supportive...all I can say to him is "I'm sorry I'm broken."

Sorry so long...
__________________

Last edited by apirateslifeforme; 12-18-2012 at 10:47 AM.
apirateslifeforme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 01:04 PM   #2945
mrsklamc
I apologize in advance, but what is a click clack?
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Husker living in Hoosierland.
Posts: 9,524

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovemygoofy View Post
I don't want to interupt this thread but I have been following your journey. I wanted to give you my story as I felt the same way. I met with three different reproductive endos before finding one I was comfortable with. I had the same issue with the first one being a money maker. I felt very uncomfortable having a financial counseling in addition to the actual medical meeting. It kept being stressed and asked over and over how we would be paying for any in vitro procedures and how many would we want etc.
I knew this place wasn't for me as I was quite emotional and scared at the time anyways.

I ended up finding another doctor in a medical/hospital setting instead of a private practice. I just felt it was better for me because it just wasn't about making some money for trying for a baby.

Good luck to you and I hope you find your own way through this difficult journey.
Thanks...IVF just seems like a huge step to me after just 4 months of clomid.They didn't even seem that interested in doing the dye test of the fallopian tubes 'since we're just going to bypass them anyway."
mrsklamc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 03:00 PM   #2946
NEVERENOUGHWDW
Still Missing 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. Dance like nobody is watching!
If there was an Olympic event I'm sure I would leave with the "gold" poop medal
 
NEVERENOUGHWDW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Doesn't matter, my mind & body are usually in 2 different places...
Posts: 26,986

Quote:
Originally Posted by apirateslifeforme View Post


I'm sorry this is so long, but I feel so hopeless. I know it's only technically been 2 months and it takes longer when you're over 35, but the doctors won't let us take time. We absolutely cannot afford IVF and they don't seem to get that. Something just isn't connecting in there and I don't know if there's something else we should be doing to try to help it along. DH is so supportive...all I can say to him is "I'm sorry I'm broken."

Sorry so long...
Your not "broken" your just at a stand still which is the hardest part.
It took us 10 years many surgeries, miscarriages and lots of crying and prayers.
We lost friends over not getting pregnant because they thought we should just give up and get on with it. Heck I lost a group of women right here on the Dis that were supposed to be "family" and threw me under the bus because I was such a downer or a drama queen, meanwhile they all had their families.
They still travel on a group of brooms so duck.

Keep your eye on the prize and your husband...many hugs.
__________________
Miracles happen every day.


What people think of you is none of your business.
NEVERENOUGHWDW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 03:11 PM   #2947
mrsklamc
I apologize in advance, but what is a click clack?
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Husker living in Hoosierland.
Posts: 9,524

Quote:
Originally Posted by apirateslifeforme View Post
So grateful to have been pointed to this thread. I don't want to hijack it, but I need support/need to vent, etc.

It all began when I started bleeding heavily in August 2011. Saw my GYN 6 weeks later and she was shocked at the amount of bleeding; my iron level had dropped to 6.8. So began the rounds of medications and tests and specialists. The bleeding finally stopped on February 1, 2012, and I found the right RE in March. However, she passed me to another RE because she didn't feel confident in doing a laparoscopy to remove my endometriosis/fibroids/irregular lining/whatever else was in there.

Had my surgery on May 1. My endometriosis was at a level of 116 (apparently stage 4 is a level of 40). The RE removed it all, plus my fibroids. Was then diagnosed with complex endometrial hyperplasia with atypia. Went on progesterone for 3 months to try to shed the lining, then had a D&C in September.

Now, all this time, we were told we HAVE to have a baby as soon as it was all done, and that all my bloodwork and ultrasounds and MRIs showed that everything was open and we should have no problems, except for the fact that we were both 38 as of late July and early August (that seems to be the ONLY block we're up against). So the RE finished up all the surgeries and sent me back to the previous RE, but now he said, "You have to begin IVF immediately" and would only say "you're 38." So we went back to the other RE and she finally explained everything that the surgeon had found, but said that she didn't see any reason why it couldn't happen naturally. I chart temp and mucus, and everything is normal...I use the "smiley face" ovulation test preferred by the RE's office...my bloodwork shows that all hormone levels are completely normal...ultrasound around ovulation shows follicles. Not to mention that we went to the IVF seminar and we're floored by the fees. Even if insurance pays for some of it, we can't afford the "above and beyond"...and our insurance will not pay for prenatal care if a pregnancy results from ART.

So here we are...we were going to try in October, but the RE insisted DH have a semen analysis that required "no sexual activity for 4-5 days;" my positive ovulation came during that time. So we missed that window. We tried in November...our timing was PERFECT, my period was late, and I had all the early symptoms. Then one evening, I started feeling achy in my abdomen - not painful, just heavy and achy. 2 hours later, I passed a lot of tissue (sorry if TMI) and the ache went away (I continued to bleed, but it was like a normal period). This was a Friday night; I spoke to my nurse on Monday morning, and she felt that we conceived but I wasn't able to implant. The RE agreed with her and they ordered Crinone for me, since maybe I'm just low on progesterone. So here comes December...got my positive ovulation (and the other symptoms), did the as required, started using the Crinone...and on the 12th day of using it (out of 15), here comes my period

I'm sorry this is so long, but I feel so hopeless. I know it's only technically been 2 months and it takes longer when you're over 35, but the doctors won't let us take time. We absolutely cannot afford IVF and they don't seem to get that. Something just isn't connecting in there and I don't know if there's something else we should be doing to try to help it along. DH is so supportive...all I can say to him is "I'm sorry I'm broken."

Sorry so long...
I'm so sorry...this entire process just sucks.

It never even occurred to me to wonder if my insurance would cover a pregnancy resulting from ART!
mrsklamc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 03:12 PM   #2948
Kennywife
Sometimes miracles take a little time
 
Kennywife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: online
Posts: 1,451

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEVERENOUGHWDW View Post
Your not "broken" your just at a stand still which is the hardest part.
It took us 10 years many surgeries, miscarriages and lots of crying and prayers.
We lost friends over not getting pregnant because they thought we should just give up and get on with it. Heck I lost a group of women right here on the Dis that were supposed to be "family" and threw me under the bus because I was such a downer or a drama queen, meanwhile they all had their families.
They still travel on a group of brooms so duck.

Keep your eye on the prize and your husband...many hugs.
Hugs to you pirate!!!!!! You are welcome here!

Last edited by Kennywife; 12-18-2012 at 03:17 PM.
Kennywife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 09:54 PM   #2949
MegSmethurst
Mouseketeer
 
MegSmethurst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 122

We've been trying for 3 years with no luck. We're on the waiting list for a fertility doctor.

I'm just frustrated with the waiting. 9 months to see the doctor. I just found out that I have a cyst in my ovaries so I have to wait 4 months to have a 3rd ultrasound. Also, my doctor wants to have me see a gynecologist who specializes in woman problems but that takes 4 months too. I know it seems like drops in the bucket but I want to have some answers now!!

My husband had testicular cancer so his sperm count is low....we went in there hoping that was our only problem. Sigh, I guess it isn't.

Thank goodness for WDW vacations to look forward to!!
__________________
Hubby + Me =

MegSmethurst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 10:34 PM   #2950
IheartMickey
I have not been blessed by the tag fairy!
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1,067

I'm broken too. I have PCOS and haven't had a period since November 2011. Before my diagnosis After I got my period in November I decided to TTC via sperm donor. I don't have a significant other, so that was my only option. I used to ovulation strips and inseminated when it looked positive and two days after. Then I was late and thought.. Wow.. It worked. I kept taking pregnancy test after test and all were negative. I went to the gyn for the blood work and it was definitely negative. She told me to see a RE because at that point I was missing periods every few months.

I went to the RE and found out I have PCOS, and we were going to try progesterone, and clomid because I'm not ovulating at all but some emergencies happened requiring money and I didn't have the money to pay for the only sperm bank they would use for IUI. The one I used was $200/ straw and the one they wanted me to use was $695/washed straw. Soo, I decided to wait.

Now I'm not in the right financial place to try again, and I no longer have medical so it's a no go for now. It just sucks because the one thing I want most in the world is to be a mother. And of course my best friend TTC for the first time in April and it worked the first try. She's due with a little girl in 3 weeks. All my friends are married, starting families (some with multiple children already) and I'm just over here single and barren feeling like I'm less than.
IheartMickey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 07:23 AM   #2951
mrsklamc
I apologize in advance, but what is a click clack?
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Husker living in Hoosierland.
Posts: 9,524

Quote:
Originally Posted by IheartMickey View Post
I'm broken too. I have PCOS and haven't had a period since November 2011. Before my diagnosis After I got my period in November I decided to TTC via sperm donor. I don't have a significant other, so that was my only option. I used to ovulation strips and inseminated when it looked positive and two days after. Then I was late and thought.. Wow.. It worked. I kept taking pregnancy test after test and all were negative. I went to the gyn for the blood work and it was definitely negative. She told me to see a RE because at that point I was missing periods every few months.

I went to the RE and found out I have PCOS, and we were going to try progesterone, and clomid because I'm not ovulating at all but some emergencies happened requiring money and I didn't have the money to pay for the only sperm bank they would use for IUI. The one I used was $200/ straw and the one they wanted me to use was $695/washed straw. Soo, I decided to wait.

Now I'm not in the right financial place to try again, and I no longer have medical so it's a no go for now. It just sucks because the one thing I want most in the world is to be a mother. And of course my best friend TTC for the first time in April and it worked the first try. She's due with a little girl in 3 weeks. All my friends are married, starting families (some with multiple children already) and I'm just over here single and barren feeling like I'm less than.
Would they give you metformin for your PCOS? Some places offer the generic for just $4 a month. I wasn't getting my cycle at all without it. I am on it now, and I've lost about ten pounds. (Don't think the weight loss came from the metformin though, I was on it for quite awhile and stayed the same weight. Weight came off when I totally gave up pop.) Between the weight loss and the metformin, reprod. endo said he saw no signs of PCOS.
mrsklamc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 07:41 AM   #2952
mrsklamc
I apologize in advance, but what is a click clack?
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Husker living in Hoosierland.
Posts: 9,524

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovemygoofy View Post
I don't want to interupt this thread but I have been following your journey. I wanted to give you my story as I felt the same way. I met with three different reproductive endos before finding one I was comfortable with. I had the same issue with the first one being a money maker. I felt very uncomfortable having a financial counseling in addition to the actual medical meeting. It kept being stressed and asked over and over how we would be paying for any in vitro procedures and how many would we want etc.
I knew this place wasn't for me as I was quite emotional and scared at the time anyways.

I ended up finding another doctor in a medical/hospital setting instead of a private practice. I just felt it was better for me because it just wasn't about making some money for trying for a baby.

Good luck to you and I hope you find your own way through this difficult journey.
Thanks again. Yesterday I was able to think more logically and remember that I don't have to feel 'bullied' - this is my body after all! Asked a friend about her endo, she likes him and felt like he was more understanding and less 'sales pitchy' so I may try and get in to see him. In the meantime, if I don't get pregnant this cycle (since he sees nothing wrong) I think I will do the HSG test. Dr looks at that only as a precursor to IUI, but there does seem to be a certain percentage of women who get pregnant immediately following it, even if no blockage is found.
mrsklamc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 08:50 AM   #2953
IheartMickey
I have not been blessed by the tag fairy!
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1,067

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsklamc

Would they give you metformin for your PCOS? Some places offer the generic for just $4 a month. I wasn't getting my cycle at all without it. I am on it now, and I've lost about ten pounds. (Don't think the weight loss came from the metformin though, I was on it for quite awhile and stayed the same weight. Weight came off when I totally gave up pop.) Between the weight loss and the metformin, reprod. endo said he saw no signs of PCOS.
I am borderline diabetic so I asked about metforim but my regular doctor won't give it to me because I don't need anything for my sugar yet. I'd have to see a RE again and that will have to wait until I get medical again. I have been losing some weight on my own, and taking vitamins because I'm also anemic and vitamin D deficient. I think that's why I've been spotting for weeks now.
IheartMickey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 09:47 AM   #2954
apirateslifeforme
The Next Mrs. Simon LeBon
On a serious note, I have to agree with the pantyhose and buttfloss
Rare. Bloody rare. Still mooing
 
apirateslifeforme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sinking deeper and deeper into Medazzaland
Posts: 8,260

Thank you all for the welcome and . I've been searching for infertility support groups in my area and coming up with nothing, except for one that meets once per month in May, June, and July (yeah, that's helpful...) On a side note, I had to laugh when searching for these groups and for some reason, I was getting results for animal hospitals

I think I lost a friend of 20 years because of all this. She became pregnant with her second son when I was diagnosed...her response to my news was to send me 50 photos of her ultrasound. I am genuinely happy for her; a baby is never bad news, but it hurt because she never talked about anything else. Never asked me if I had news, it was all about her pregnancy and what she was feeling and sending me photos. She hasn't spoken to me in 2 months now, since the baby was born.

I often try to think of a friend of my mom's who tried for a baby for years, visited specialists, etc. and finally gave up in her mid-thirties. She and her husband didn't actively try, but they didn't try to prevent it either, for many years. Then she turned 40 and suddenly, she was pregnant. Two years later, a second daughter followed. So I'm trying to tell myself, hey, maybe the message just isn't getting there yet...one of these days, my parts will wake up and say, "Oh, yeah, I'm supposed to be pregnant, let's get that going."

DH and I are also still trying to figure out why the RE who did the surgery is making such a big deal of my age. I do know that fertility declines over time, but he made it sound like it was a sudden thing based on my birthday. In May, when I was still 37, he kept saying, "You're still young, you have time, you'll have no problems." But 2 months later, after my birthday in July, it was "You're 38 now, your chances aren't great." I finally got so fed up with hearing about my age that I sarcastically asked, "Is there a fertility dimmer switch somewhere? Is God sitting at a big control panel and when a woman hits 38, He says, 'Oh, she's 38, better turn this down now'?" (the doctor was not amused by that, but DH was...)

I know I sound very bitter and angry. Again...I'm sorry about that...I just can't figure out why the story suddenly changed with him. I did get the feeling that while he was a good doctor ("America's Top Doctors" awards everywhere, and he did do a laparoscopy instead of completely opening me up), he was all about the money and that's why he pushed IVF.
__________________
apirateslifeforme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 10:21 AM   #2955
Kennywife
Sometimes miracles take a little time
 
Kennywife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: online
Posts: 1,451

Quote:
Originally Posted by apirateslifeforme View Post
Thank you all for the welcome and . I've been searching for infertility support groups in my area and coming up with nothing, except for one that meets once per month in May, June, and July (yeah, that's helpful...) On a side note, I had to laugh when searching for these groups and for some reason, I was getting results for animal hospitals

I think I lost a friend of 20 years because of all this. She became pregnant with her second son when I was diagnosed...her response to my news was to send me 50 photos of her ultrasound. I am genuinely happy for her; a baby is never bad news, but it hurt because she never talked about anything else. Never asked me if I had news, it was all about her pregnancy and what she was feeling and sending me photos. She hasn't spoken to me in 2 months now, since the baby was born.

I often try to think of a friend of my mom's who tried for a baby for years, visited specialists, etc. and finally gave up in her mid-thirties. She and her husband didn't actively try, but they didn't try to prevent it either, for many years. Then she turned 40 and suddenly, she was pregnant. Two years later, a second daughter followed. So I'm trying to tell myself, hey, maybe the message just isn't getting there yet...one of these days, my parts will wake up and say, "Oh, yeah, I'm supposed to be pregnant, let's get that going."

DH and I are also still trying to figure out why the RE who did the surgery is making such a big deal of my age. I do know that fertility declines over time, but he made it sound like it was a sudden thing based on my birthday. In May, when I was still 37, he kept saying, "You're still young, you have time, you'll have no problems." But 2 months later, after my birthday in July, it was "You're 38 now, your chances aren't great." I finally got so fed up with hearing about my age that I sarcastically asked, "Is there a fertility dimmer switch somewhere? Is God sitting at a big control panel and when a woman hits 38, He says, 'Oh, she's 38, better turn this down now'?" (the doctor was not amused by that, but DH was...)

I know I sound very bitter and angry. Again...I'm sorry about that...I just can't figure out why the story suddenly changed with him. I did get the feeling that while he was a good doctor ("America's Top Doctors" awards everywhere, and he did do a laparoscopy instead of completely opening me up), he was all about the money and that's why he pushed IVF.
Hon we've all been there. :group hug: I've ridden the bitter train so many times it knows me by name. Wow. That first friend sounded really insensitive. Hugs!!!!!!

I would get a second opinion honestly. I went through B.S. from doctors who told me I would never be able to have children until I found my wonderful RE. She diagnosed me with Hypothyroidism, PCOS, high androgen and low progesterone. Yes, they are obstacles and I am treating them with diet, excersize and medicines, but they are not impossible to overcome. What was encouraging in my case is that my doctor has been through it as well and was also plus size with her pregnancies so she understands.

I wouldn't let someone tell you that just because you're 38 it's hopeless. One of my best friends is in her forties and had her first. So tell him to put that in his pipe and smoke it.

Anytime you need to talk we are here. You can PM me as well.

Last edited by Kennywife; 12-19-2012 at 10:27 AM.
Kennywife is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS Updates
GET OUR DIS UPDATES DELIVERED BY EMAIL



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:54 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Copyright © 1997-2014, Werner Technologies, LLC. All Rights Reserved.

You Rated this Thread: