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Old 08-05-2013, 11:41 AM   #1156
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Anyways, I have the Udder Cover bf cover...I really am not a fan of it....I have to tug and adjust it so much to be able to see her to make sure she is latching on correctly....are all covers basically the same, or are some better than others? Sorry if this has already been asked or discussed...I didn't go back and read every post.
They are all pretty much the same. Plus it gets very warm under the cover. I prefer the big shirt approach, but have been able to use a big sun at too.

I also disagree with the not supplementing approach. I supplemented formula with both my kids. No matter how much I pumped or tried the herbal stuff, my milk just doesn't fully come in until about 2 months! Before that, it just makes for a cranky, hungry baby, and a tired mom!
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:58 AM   #1157
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They are all pretty much the same. Plus it gets very warm under the cover. I prefer the big shirt approach, but have been able to use a big sun at too.

I also disagree with the not supplementing approach. I supplemented formula with both my kids. No matter how much I pumped or tried the herbal stuff, my milk just doesn't fully come in until about 2 months! Before that, it just makes for a cranky, hungry baby, and a tired mom!
The problem with supplementing is it decreases supply. An infant for the first couple of months has a stomach that starts out the size of a bead and then grows to a walnut. Not only that breastmilk is naturally digested by baby that is why baby digest it faster and needs to eat more often. Formula is thick and sits in a babies stomach and digest very slow reason why baby will sleep longer. Also thinking you need to supplement could also cause over feeding since baby gets enough milk and then to add formula is too much. A breastfed baby cannot be over fed. Only formula fed babies can be.
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Old 08-05-2013, 12:01 PM   #1158
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Disney is a great place to NIP. Everyone is so busy having fun they don't even notice, and if they do, most people just keep on doing what they are doing. DS nursed on the land ride in Epcot. Any calm ride or show works great for nursing. DS was 13 months and eating pretty good so I didn't end up nursing a lot in the parks. It was kind of nice that I did get those sit down breaks with him. Also there are people from so many different cultures and countries that BFing doesn't seem so out of place. I also went with the large shirt method of covering up. DS didn't like the cover very much and after 6 months I could nurse and no one the wiser unless they really looked close. It just looked like I was holding him.
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Old 08-05-2013, 12:33 PM   #1159
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The problem with supplementing is it decreases supply. An infant for the first couple of months has a stomach that starts out the size of a bead and then grows to a walnut. Not only that breastmilk is naturally digested by baby that is why baby digest it faster and needs to eat more often. Formula is thick and sits in a babies stomach and digest very slow reason why baby will sleep longer. Also thinking you need to supplement could also cause over feeding since baby gets enough milk and then to add formula is too much. A breastfed baby cannot be over fed. Only formula fed babies can be.
You do what you have to do for your child to grow.

DD could not suck when she was born. Not even at a finger if you put it in her mouth. Thankfully an IBCLC noticed this before I left the hospital, and I had access to a hospital grade pump (which I then rented for 2 months before buying my own personal pump). I had no choice but to start her life with pumping and supplementing until working with the pump had increased my supply. She lost 10% of her birthweight before we left the hospital, and her weight was a constant issue for the first 3 months of her life. She was in the 3-5% for quite some time.

I worked for 3+ months with an IBCLC to get her to latch, and she never latched well enough to effectively get milk from me. I ended up going on this year long EPing journey, and now she's almost 13 months old and transitioning from expressed milk to soy milk. Her growth is finally stabilized and not something we have to worry about.

It's easy to be on an internet board and say "no, don't supplement" - it's harder when your newborn is crying and hungry and they won't take food from your breast (or there isn't enough at your breast for them to take). All posts here are just snippets of people's daily lives. GYou have no idea what's going on behind the scenes every day. It takes so much time and perseverance to work on breastfeeding AND pumping every day, and it can be *so* stressful - especially in those early weeks. That stress isn't good for a mother's milk production either.

To BadgerGirl84 - trust me, I know how frustrating those early weeks can be when BFing isn't enough. Trust your mommy instinct - even though it's new, it will still serve you well!
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Old 08-05-2013, 12:48 PM   #1160
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You do what you have to do for your child to grow.

DD could not suck when she was born. Not even at a finger if you put it in her mouth. Thankfully an IBCLC noticed this before I left the hospital, and I had access to a hospital grade pump (which I then rented for 2 months before buying my own personal pump). I had no choice but to start her life with pumping and supplementing until working with the pump had increased my supply. She lost 10% of her birthweight before we left the hospital, and her weight was a constant issue for the first 3 months of her life. She was in the 3-5% for quite some time.

I worked for 3+ months with an IBCLC to get her to latch, and she never latched well enough to effectively get milk from me. I ended up going on this year long EPing journey, and now she's almost 13 months old and transitioning from expressed milk to soy milk. Her growth is finally stabilized and not something we have to worry about.

It's easy to be on an internet board and say "no, don't supplement" - it's harder when your newborn is crying and hungry and they won't take food from your breast (or there isn't enough at your breast for them to take). All posts here are just snippets of people's daily lives. GYou have no idea what's going on behind the scenes every day. It takes so much time and perseverance to work on breastfeeding AND pumping every day, and it can be *so* stressful - especially in those early weeks. That stress isn't good for a mother's milk production either.

To BadgerGirl84 - trust me, I know how frustrating those early weeks can be when BFing isn't enough. Trust your mommy instinct - even though it's new, it will still serve you well!
Yes we do what we have to but its also nice to have others offer advice. Some moms see formula and drs and hospitals push it not realizing they can ruin that breastfeeding relationship. I have had several moms online in my DDG who were thankful for the visuals and info I shared so they now know that they can feed their baby. They thought something was wrong.

As for your DD not latching good enough for milk I would ask if she had been checked for lip or tongue tie. Two very common issues found in babies that cannot latch properly. Maybe even a nipple shield could have aided in latching.

Yes its easy to say stuff online but I say stuff out of advice and knowing I was once there. My breastfeeding journey was no where near a walk in the park. I was able to nurse #4 til 11 months and that was the first time I did go that long. #5 came and she just threw me off. I couldn't do it. She had bad reflux and I ended up giving formula. I finally had great success with #6 and 7 who I have been able to nurse for 2 yrs or more. Only reason #7 weaned is because I currently dried up from my pregnancy with #8. Breastfeeding by no means can be easy and especially when you see your child suffering and crying. I know that but I also would have loved to have better support even if it was from someone online just offering suggestions or sharing info. Everyone can take my advice and info the way they want. That doesn't mean I shouldn't offer it what if it helps a mom and I didn't say something.
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:22 PM   #1161
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I know that but I also would have loved to have better support even if it was from someone online just offering suggestions or sharing info. Everyone can take my advice and info the way they want. That doesn't mean I shouldn't offer it what if it helps a mom and I didn't say something.
I was offering my support to her as well. I wanted her to know that supplementing does not *have* to kill her supply, as it was indicated. It takes a lot of determination and perseverance to establish and keep a supply with pumping (especially when you're also trying to get the baby to latch), but it *is* possible.

I was offering up my experience with supplementing/BFing/EPing as an example of how you can have a rough start with BFing, and yet still be able to establish a great supply even with pumping (as I've been able to do, since I've been EPing for a year). The best thing I did during that time was to rent the hospital grade pump for my home use. I doubt my supply would be as good as it has been without the hospital grade pump.

As for the comments about my personal experience, I will take that to PM as I don't want to take away from the thread.
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Old 08-05-2013, 02:09 PM   #1162
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I know that but I also would have loved to have better support even if it was from someone online just offering suggestions or sharing info. Everyone can take my advice and info the way they want. That doesn't mean I shouldn't offer it what if it helps a mom and I didn't say something.
Totally agree with you, there should be more support for BFing mothers. And as Angel Ariel stated, we're just offering alternatives. With my first, all the nurses and lactation consultants I spoke to recommended not supplementing. It added so much more stress to my life. By the time we had #2, I knew everything would work out at the end. Unfortunately it worked too well and at 15mon, DD still refuses to stop

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Disney is a great place to NIP. Everyone is so busy having fun they don't even notice, and if they do, most people just keep on doing what they are doing.
in the 10+ years of going I can only remember seeing 1 other person NIP.
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Old 08-05-2013, 04:31 PM   #1163
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Totally agree with you, there should be more support for BFing mothers. And as Angel Ariel stated, we're just offering alternatives. With my first, all the nurses and lactation consultants I spoke to recommended not supplementing. It added so much more stress to my life. By the time we had #2, I knew everything would work out at the end. Unfortunately it worked too well and at 15mon, DD still refuses to stop

in the 10+ years of going I can only remember seeing 1 other person NIP.
Yeah I had one or two of those. Lol I always thought 1 yr was cut off time but my DD had other plans. That's when I learned about extended breastfeeding from moms online. We went til 2 yrs and my youngest DD just weaned at 2.5 yrs cause I dried up from this pregnancy she still ask for milk. I might let her re latch after my milk comes back.
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:41 PM   #1164
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Why do you think you have a low supply?? Suplementing is going to cause issues and make your supply even lower and eventually gone.
Reasons why I think I have low supply:

1) Baby born at 7 lbs 3 oz. Lost and maintained a 10 percent weight loss at 7 and 14 day appointments, despite LOTS of nursing (like some days pretty much nursing all day). Baby only started gaining weight when I started supplementing.

2) Lactation Consultant things low milk supply. Latch is fine.

3) I have a baby scale and weigh her before and after some feedings. She usually only gets an ounce or a half ounce after a 30 minute or so feeding.

4) pump volumes are low. Pumping within 30-45 min of a feeding yields maybe a half ounce. I know pumping isn't completely indicative of supply, but when taken in stride with everything else....

I wish to God I didn't have low supply, I want to EBF sooooo badly. It's the best health wise for my baby, I was looking forward to the help with the weight loss, it's free, and it's convenient. My life is a feeding nightmare right now....every 3 hrs I am bf-ing for at least 30 minutes, then giving a bottle, then pumping. After that's all said and done (cleaning, diaper changes, all the feedings...) I'm lucky to have 60-75 minutes before I have to repeat it all again. It's exhausting.
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:43 PM   #1165
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I also disagree with the not supplementing approach. I supplemented formula with both my kids. No matter how much I pumped or tried the herbal stuff, my milk just doesn't fully come in until about 2 months! Before that, it just makes for a cranky, hungry baby, and a tired mom!
Thank you for the support and encouragement. It gives me hope that this problem could be resolved in the future. I'm not seeing much improvement with what I've tried so far. The only things I haven't tried is adding in a power pumping session every day and getting a prescription. I would love it if my milk came in at the 2 month mark...or sooner!

If I didn't supplement right now, my daughter would be starving. I didn't know what a full, milk-drunk baby looked like until I gave her a bottle after a feeding for the first time. She looked so full and content, it literally killed me that I had been starving her the two weeks prior, because I had never seen that before from EBF.
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:52 PM   #1166
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To BadgerGirl84 - trust me, I know how frustrating those early weeks can be when BFing isn't enough. Trust your mommy instinct - even though it's new, it will still serve you well!
Thank you for sharing your experience and your support. During my pregnancy, I knew to be wary of anyone pushing formula on me and my baby and that it was normal for babies to lose up to 10 percent of their birth weight after birth. However, when my baby was still down 10 percent at her two week appointment, despite nursing around the clock some days, I knew something had to change for her health.

My pedi is very pro-breastfeeding and would love to see me be able to stop the supplementing. But that said, I'm not going to stand by and watch my baby starve for the sake of being a breastfeeding martyr.

I sobbed at her doctors appointments where she was weighed, and also when I gave her that first bottle of formula. I felt like I failed as a mother. I know that's not true, but I do feel like I'm mourning the plan I had for feeding my daughter. Getting better day by day (not the supply issue, just me adjusting to the idea.)
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:35 PM   #1167
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Thank you for sharing your experience and your support. During my pregnancy, I knew to be wary of anyone pushing formula on me and my baby and that it was normal for babies to lose up to 10 percent of their birth weight after birth. However, when my baby was still down 10 percent at her two week appointment, despite nursing around the clock some days, I knew something had to change for her health.

My pedi is very pro-breastfeeding and would love to see me be able to stop the supplementing. But that said, I'm not going to stand by and watch my baby starve for the sake of being a breastfeeding martyr.

I sobbed at her doctors appointments where she was weighed, and also when I gave her that first bottle of formula. I felt like I failed as a mother. I know that's not true, but I do feel like I'm mourning the plan I had for feeding my daughter. Getting better day by day (not the supply issue, just me adjusting to the idea.)
I'm sorry it has been such a difficult experience for you I completely understand what you mean about how you felt when you gave her formula for the first time, and feeling like you failed as a mother - I struggled with that a LOT at the beginning. I think it's normal to mourn the fact that it's not going as you planned as well...at least I hope it is. I still have days where I mourn not having that nursing relationship.

I have some suggestions/advice on the pumping, but I don't want to make assumptions about what you are or aren't doing I'd be happy to share them with you in PM if you're interested, though. That goes for just needing to vent too I still have days where I want to chuck the pump out the window, so I'd understand if you need to vent any frustration
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:58 PM   #1168
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Reasons why I think I have low supply:

1) Baby born at 7 lbs 3 oz. Lost and maintained a 10 percent weight loss at 7 and 14 day appointments, despite LOTS of nursing (like some days pretty much nursing all day). Baby only started gaining weight when I started supplementing.

2) Lactation Consultant things low milk supply. Latch is fine.

3) I have a baby scale and weigh her before and after some feedings. She usually only gets an ounce or a half ounce after a 30 minute or so feeding.

4) pump volumes are low. Pumping within 30-45 min of a feeding yields maybe a half ounce. I know pumping isn't completely indicative of supply, but when taken in stride with everything else....

I wish to God I didn't have low supply, I want to EBF sooooo badly. It's the best health wise for my baby, I was looking forward to the help with the weight loss, it's free, and it's convenient. My life is a feeding nightmare right now....every 3 hrs I am bf-ing for at least 30 minutes, then giving a bottle, then pumping. After that's all said and done (cleaning, diaper changes, all the feedings...) I'm lucky to have 60-75 minutes before I have to repeat it all again. It's exhausting.
How trust me I know the pumping issue that is just a big no no for me. I would dry up completely if I had to pump. My body doesnt react that way. I know you said you didnt try a prescription to up your supply but what about fungreek lactation cookies oatmeal. I know others say they have success with it. I didnt learn about til later which i had when i had to work and pump then i would have been able to nurse my babies. i ended up just giving up and given then formula.
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:59 PM   #1169
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Oh BadgerGirl, my heart aches for you. I've been where you are at and it's so hard.
My first baby was tongue & lip tied, but that wasn't diagnosed & corrected until she was a month old & by then, my milk was pretty much gone.
I did the nursing/formula feed/pumping/cleaning/crying thing every 2-3 hours around the clock and had the worst postpartum depression due to the stress, guilt & sleep deprivation. I saw 4 different LC's & finally the 4th one diagnosed the ties.
After 4 months of eeking out tiny amounts of breast milk, I stopped pumping & used donor breast milk from friends & formula. My daughter is now beautiful, healthy & so smart. No one ever asks me if she was FF or breast fed.

First rule, feed the baby.

With our second child, we saw an ENT & got her lip & tongue tie fixed & I started pumping the second day after she was born. She's now 14 months old & still nursing. The second time has been so easy. I feel so lucky.

Hang in there. It does get better. Big hugs mama. You are doing the best you can. Take care of yourself too.
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Old 08-06-2013, 09:38 AM   #1170
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I sobbed at her doctors appointments where she was weighed, and also when I gave her that first bottle of formula. I felt like I failed as a mother. I know that's not true, but I do feel like I'm mourning the plan I had for feeding my daughter. Getting better day by day (not the supply issue, just me adjusting to the idea.)
We went through a similar thing with #1. For the first year, we were always worried when he got sick. We ended up in the ER a few times because he wouldn't eat as much and his weight would just plummet.

With #2, I started supplementing right away. I would BF then give her a bottle. She wouldn't always finish the bottle, but at least she wouldn't be hungry. I'd give her a feeding at 9pm, then my DH would take over until 1am. At that point, I'd bring her in bed and BF while lying on my side.

I'm sure I'll get a lot of comments on co-sleeping, but it was the best solution for us. It allowed me to sleep while she could feed every 1 to 2 hours. Even with the constant night feeding, it still took me almost 3 months to have enough milk so we didn't need to supplement.

Both my kids were born at the same weight. #2 shot up to 70 percentiles within a month. Stayed there for 3 months until we stopped supplementing, then settled around 50%. We don't worry as much when she gets sick and doesn't eat.

I want to note that when I said my milk came in, I was never one of those women who had a lot! I was not able to pump in excess to store in the freezer. Even when I tried adding pumping sessions at work or the herbal stuff, it didn't work. It was always just enough.

I also did not lose weight while BFing. With #1, I didn't lose weight until I stop. This was because my milk would decrease if I skipped meals, if I didn't sleep enough, or if I was stressed

Pumping worked well for me. If it works for you, consider taking a day off from BFing so you can relax. Pumping on a schedule is less stressful than trying to feed a baby on demand.

I wish you the best luck with the new baby. Don't feel that you have to BF 100% of the time. I feel that something is better than nothing. And your special bond with the baby will not just be from BFing. You're the mommy, the bond is there no matter what you feed her
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