teachers and subs a question re. bad bad day

[Tiggeroo]

I am a long term sub at a fairly good school in a wealthy neighborhood with a small group of students in some fairly bad subsidized housing. These students disproportionally represent the special education department. I have seen some bad classes in this department. Today I was in the worst class ever. I was in for the main teacher but the aid who is always there and a certified sub as well took the class. There were maybe 8 students. Two of these students have greater disabilities and one on one aides who were also in the class, one is wheelchair bound. The class is loud and slightly rude which is typical for these classes. Several students also refused to do work, also, typical for these classes. However, two boys were beyond out of control. At one point with me right next to them they both threw their text books and kicked them. They made disparaging and slightly racist comments about other students. (they are not white either). They made comments about students who truly have difficulties in this class. Early on I wrote them up but told them I would tear it up if they were good for the rest of the class. Didn't happen. One student at one point picked up a desk and messed around with another student with it in the air. I asked the aid who is always in there if she wanted me to remove the boys. She said no. The one on one aids were obviously upset but it's not their position to intervene. Finally after half the class the aide said the class was over and they could do what they wanted. The two boys with special ed aides asked their aides if they could leave as they were obviously upset. They left. The aide in charge told me I could leave. (this is common when you are a sub and there is more then one teacher) The two boys who caused the bulk of the problems asked the aide if they were much better today. Weren't they so good they asked? She said yes they were. They looked at me and said, see she thinks we're good. You are over reacting. They also said our regular teacher always lets us behave this way. (don't know if this is true)
When you are a sub and there is other regular personal in the classroom they typically take charge. It is wrong to attempt to over ride their classroom choices and enforce a more tight discipline. I know she didn't want me to but I wrote the two boys up. I also want to speak to somebody about this situation. I will also tell the sub coordinator I will never cover this class again. I am hoping to get a full time teaching position in this school. In the meantime I have applied for a short term aide position for the second half of the year. Given this, would you tell somebody how bad things were? It might make waves, especially for the aide. It might make me look like a trouble maker. However, the kids in the class who have disabilities, not behavior problems deserve an education. They have the right to a safe, fairly quiet classroom where they are not made fun of. Yikes.

[Mom2gymnasts]

My husband is a special education teacher & I can assure you this behavior is NOT tolerated. I would let the principal, full time teacher, sub coordinator, & someone at the board of education know about the activities in this classroom. If the aide gets in trouble so be it. Sounds like she isn't doing her job as it is. Someone needs to have control in that classroom. It almost sounds as if they were bullying/terrorizing other students in the room. The fact that other children were afraid is inexusable. The class was half over & the aide said they were done & could do what they wanted? What kind of education are any of the students getting in that room? Each child in my husbands room as an alternate education plan & they have meetings and the student must be showing progress or my husband isn't doing his job. Sounds like all of the students in this room are not getting what they need.

Hope you have a better day next time you sub.

[Tiggeroo]

Thanks I have subbed for over 8 year at this school and this is only the second time I've written anybody up. I had to ask how. The school seems to tolerate poor performance in the special ed classrooms because these kids rarely have parents who advocate or complain. There is a clear division between the wealthy kids in the honors/ap classes and the other kids in special ed. Because of this most kids with involved parents will not be placed in these classes even if they could really use it. The aide has already given notice and is going back to school for psychiatry in January.

[schmitty]

Kids with EBD's deserve an education also. I would look into the kids BIP's and see what is suggested. If they don't have those see what the normal class rules are. If there aren't any then just survive the day sense its a one day thing. Try to praise the students and don't challenge them one on one. Say general things that all the kids should follow.

[Tiggeroo]

bump in case more teachers are on now.
Oh, on my own I am generally able to handle most kids if not all. The problem was I was not in charge and the kids probably are allowed to do this or close to it every day so they have a pattern. It is difficult for a sub to demand more respect then the regular teacher. I don't look for miracles when I sub. It's generally ok with me if you are talking a bit and even slacking a bit. I feel a sub day should be a bit of a holiday unless the teacher has left something pressing. But there is a line and that is respect for me and your fellow students.

[D,L and K's Mom]

I am not sure if you are subbing if you are able to access the children's IEPs?!?! I was an elem school teacher for 21 years and now I am a Teaching Assistant at the high school in a 12-1-1 room. That behavior should not be tolerated. I can't believe it is allowed. All the students in the room should be treated with respect and dignity and should have a SAFE learning environment. Throwing objects and kicking is not safe. Also, racist comments and comments about disabilities also should not be tolerated. There should be some sort of behavior management plan in place for the classroom. If you are able to access the IEPs you can see if there is some type of behavior plan in place for the individual student. Sounds like you had your hands tied as you were not in charge. What does this teacher do when she/he has an observation? We have them once a year after tenure. I don't think that children so our of control would act perfect when someone came in to observe.

[spaceacewannabe]

Originally Posted by D,L and K's Mom

I am not sure if you are subbing if you are able to access the children's IEPs?!?! I was an elem school teacher for 21 years and now I am a Teaching Assistant at the high school in a 12-1-1 room. That behavior should not be tolerated. I can't believe it is allowed. All the students in the room should be treated with respect and dignity and should have a SAFE learning environment. Throwing objects and kicking is not safe. Also, racist comments and comments about disabilities also should not be tolerated. There should be some sort of behavior management plan in place for the classroom. If you are able to access the IEPs you can see if there is some type of behavior plan in place for the individual student. Sounds like you had your hands tied as you were not in charge. What does this teacher do when she/he has an observation? We have them once a year after tenure. I don't think that children so our of control would act perfect when someone came in to observe.

I agree---it would be interesting to know what is in their IEPs/BIPs.
That said, throwing and kicking is obviously not going to be tolerated---but there might be a specific way it's to be handled (obviously not ignored the way the aide did).
I would definitely let someone know. In my teaching situation, they would be talking to the police liason officer---and if it were a persistent issue with the desk in particular, they might be cuffed and removed, because it's a threat to everyone's safety.

I hope that was clear---I'm on cold medicine and a bit foggy but had to respond to this one! Yikes!

[D,L and K's Mom]

We call security and they are taken to the Principals office for a time out type of management. The Prinicpal decides what should be done....suspension, counciling session or just a time out and apology. Security is good with the kids ..they come down and walk them out usually with another adult who stays with the child.

[carj]

There is often a very specific way of responding to children with certain behaviors. I have seen excellent teachers unwittingly escalate the situation without being aware of it because they didn't know what the specific repsonse plans were for a student. I am not saying that is what you did but it can happen even if you don't realize it.

One way that I find diffuses situations, sometimes before they even start is to offer choices. "Would you like to sit on a chair, or the beanbag?" Also requesting assistance from a student is an excellent way to get them to do what you want them to do. "Jeff, will you help me push this desk up against the wall so we can have more space."

Now, I wouldn't try anything too challenging if you are only going to be in there a day. I would stick with the making choices. Give them 2 choices, both of which you can live with. (There is less of an opportunity to say "no".) This is from Love and Logic. There are many books and there is also a website. The big key is don't let the little, or big, stinker push your buttons. Or at least, don't let them see that they have.

You are right that none of that behavior should be allowed to happen in the presence of the other students. I believe that if you have that kind of situation where you cannot get the student to regain control of himself, the best thing to do is to remove the audience. The other students can be escorted from the room, leaving 1-2 adults to monitor, but not engage the child. The child has to decide to regain control. It can't be a power struggle. (Or even something that the child percieves as a power struggle.) Remove the audience, for their safety and don't allow the child who is acting out to harm himself.

I have been so bewildered by student behavior on so many occasions and I hope I am not coming off as a know-it-all because I definitely NOT!\\

Best wishes!

[Tiggeroo]

Originally Posted by carj

There is often a very specific way of responding to children with certain behaviors. I have seen excellent teachers unwittingly escalate the situation without being aware of it because they didn't know what the specific repsonse plans were for a student. I am not saying that is what you did but it can happen even if you don't realize it.

One way that I find diffuses situations, sometimes before they even start is to offer choices. "Would you like to sit on a chair, or the beanbag?" Also requesting assistance from a student is an excellent way to get them to do what you want them to do. "Jeff, will you help me push this desk up against the wall so we can have more space."

Now, I wouldn't try anything too challenging if you are only going to be in there a day. I would stick with the making choices. Give them 2 choices, both of which you can live with. (There is less of an opportunity to say "no".) This is from Love and Logic. There are many books and there is also a website. The big key is don't let the little, or big, stinker push your buttons. Or at least, don't let them see that they have.

You are right that none of that behavior should be allowed to happen in the presence of the other students. I believe that if you have that kind of situation where you cannot get the student to regain control of himself, the best thing to do is to remove the audience. The other students can be escorted from the room, leaving 1-2 adults to monitor, but not engage the child. The child has to decide to regain control. It can't be a power struggle. (Or even something that the child percieves as a power struggle.) Remove the audience, for their safety and don't allow the child who is acting out to harm himself.

I have been so bewildered by student behavior on so many occasions and I hope I am not coming off as a know-it-all because I definitely NOT!\\

Best wishes!

No you are not coming off that way at all. I love the idea of choices. I pretty much stayed out of it. As I said, it wasn't my place. However, this aide is in this class every day and would be familiar with the IEP's, behavior plans, etc. She allowed it to escalate and ignored behavior that was grossly unfair to the other students. Before class, knowing there were problems here I told her if need be I would take several students to the library. The reason this is done is to remove the audience. I would also have taken them to the Child Study Team where they can sit in a quiet room to decompress. I'm not an expert but these students didn't remotely seem upset, troubled or under duress. They liked ruling the classroom. But I wouldn't have written them up or taken them to the principals office if taking them for a walk or letting them sit in the library worked.
There was one instance where I dealt with a situation like this in a bad way. I got too confrontational and really only gave the student the option of losing face or continuing the bad behavior. It was a lesson well learned.
I don't think there was anything else I could have done. If I had stepped in too much I would have taken away power from the regular teacher. I'm just trying to decide whether or not to talk to somebody in the CST. I'm very upset with what I saw.