diagnosing a 10 year old

[NHdisneylover]

Sorry, I had no idea how to title this so it would really give you some idea what it is about before opening the thread This is very ling so I do apologize for tha tas well.

My son is 10 (11 in December). We recently moved to Germany. One difference here vs. the USA is that things like OT/PT, etc are handeled via doctors, not schools.

My son was in OT (through the schools, after testing at our request though he was at the time homeschooled) for his handwirting. He had had this only for the 6 months or so before we moved. We had asked for this when he was in kindergarten and first grade (in a different school distrcit than where he ended up getting it) and were told he would outgrow the issues and needed no help.

He was also in PT (also at the school and also after we asked for testing--the school was excellent and very helpful) to help with his coordination. He is not good with balls, only mastered riding a bike this year, cannot jump a rope, etc. Then again, he is a dancer and handles lots of things in ballet and tap quite well (though he does have issues with keeping his arms where they need to be and not being "lazy" there).

Ths school testing also found he has very high cognitive efficiency (98%) but very low processing speed (0.2%). They actually retested those twice because the gap seemed impossible to them. Teh ywere still working on a plan to help with that when we learned we were moving.

So, we moved here and were told by the private school he was in for the latter part of last year that they just flat out do not work with kids on these thigns here. Several teachers and the principal told us that. I should not have believed them. One week into being in a public school this year, they were already worrying about the handwriting and they told me he CAN have OT/PT and more but to take him to the doctor's office for it.

So, I was able to get him into the doctor's office on Monday. I was taking him in to ask for the OT perscription AND for an unrelated (so I thought) issue, which is that for the past few months he has been VERY tired all the time. He just lacks energy. He is not sleepy, but will come home and lie on the floor rather than play. When we first moved here I thought he was getting used to the time zone, tired from a vacation, etc., but now I see it has not gone away.

The doctor spent a while looking at his school work, test scores from the USA and having him do things like jumping jacks, walk across the room barefoot etc. She says she thinks the letheragy is related to the other issues. She also asked me to ask his teachers if he is learning German as quickly as most kids do ( it is a school for immigrant children so they all come in without the language), how he does at making friends in school and if he is able to focus on worksheets and on lectures. She wants him to see an "Ergotherapist" which seems to be some combination of OT/PT and works with muscles. She also said once she has a report back from the therapist she will likely want to do an EEG.

So, I am set up with an appointment with the therapist on Monday. I was told to come alone the first day just to talk to her about Rio. I have no idea if she speaks English or not (my German is passable but not yet all that great--especially if we get into medical terms). So I am stressing wondering what they may be looking for or thinking it might be. I figure the more I go into this appointment knowing the better I will be able to handle understanding and translating as I go.

So, here are all the things I can think of which MAY be related. Anyone want to play doctor:

Fine motor: handwriting has ALWAYS been very messy and he works hard on it. He writes slowly and because of that can loose his train of thought about hwat he is actually writing while he concentrates on jsut forming the letters. He plays with Legos, playdough, silly putty, etc. all the time. Things like stringing beads can also be hard for him.

Gross Motor: seems very irregular. Some things he is really good at (foot work in ballet, hula hooping) and other "easy" for most kids things allude him. He finallly mastered riding a bike (balance was the issue) this year. He cannot jump rope and is not good with ball sports. His arms have always been on the weak side.

Textures: He has always been picky about clothing. He has to have soft cottons (good weaves) or else he twists and turns and fidgets in the clothes (and complains). He has only this year been willing to wear jeans--but still prefers dress pants. He hates the feel of fleece (no matte rhow high quality) and says it is scratchy.

Foods: Maybe related to texture He is a picky eater, but not all junk food at all. He actually will not eat fries, chips, hot dogs, etc. HE has never eaten any meat other than chicken/turkey. He does not like sauce on things (any kind of sauce). Generally he likes very bland foods (though he does like garlic and cinnamon). He also has an amazingly strong sense of smell so I have always figured he probably can just taste more than he rest of us.

Speaking: He talks fast and mumbels and can be difficult to understand. We asked to have this evaluated in first grade also and were told it was fine, When his teachers learned we were taking him in they asked about this. He CAN speak slowly and clearly (he acts and does great on stage0 but ONLY if you remind him and he forgets again very soon when not standing on a stage (I guess the stage iteself reminds him).

Social: He has never had many friends his age. He is never sad about that or lonely in a group. He jsut seems to prefer to be alone often or to have one or two friends. The close friends he has had have always been girls. He likes to play very invovled and imaginative games which many girls seem to enjoy more than boys. He may be the only 10 year old boy on the planet who does not a gaming system He is almost alwasy described in every report from teachers, counselors, testers etc. as extremly polite and kind. He is very concenred about how others feel.

Academics: He often intuitly undersatnds math and science at VERY high levels. However, he is an average reader (and does not like it) and really struggles with spelling.

Any ideas or help would be highly appreciated.
Thanks

[golfgal]

Did he sit, crawl and walk "on time" as a baby?

Two things jump out at me, Sensory Integration Disorder-the textures, picky eating, etc. are classic symptoms. How does he do with loud noises? The other thing is low muscle tone, again, classic symptoms, but where the low muscle tone comes from would be what they are trying to figure out. If the Dr wants to do and EEG, he is suspecting something neurological-maybe major like MS, CP (not to scare you or anything)?

[SeaSpray]

I am by no means trying to diagnose your DS, but reading your list, I see some of the same things that my DS18 had at that age, and he has mild Asperger's Syndrome.

If you're wondering, these are the similarities:

HANDWRITING. About the same age as your DS, my DS had to have an IEP put into place for school for his handwriting. He CAN write, but not very well.

SPEAKING. You described my DS to a T. Now that he's older this is rarely an issue. When he was young, sometimes I'd need my older DS to translate for me!! lol

ACADEMICS: DS18 has always excelled at math, with no effort at all. And I like how you used the word "intuitively" because that perfectly describes the way my DS approached math. He didn't need pen and paper, and when he got to the higher grades where he had to "show your work" it would frustrate him because he didn't understand why. LOL He tested at the top level on the SATs and state testing and actually won scholarships for college because of his high math scores. Also, the university placed him in their Honors Association too, with additional money for books. Can't beat that.

DS18 actually excelled in all academics, but was late when it came to reading for enjoyment. I thought he'd never WANT to read a book, but he had a great teacher in his junior year of high school who got the kids hooked on reading sci-fi (Dune, Lord of the Rings, etc) and now DS loves to read and has quite the personal library.

My point in all of this is to let you know that even if your DS does "have something" such as Asperger's, it's not all bad, not by a long shot.

Again, I am not trying to diagnose your DS, but wanted to point out the similiarites that I see what you listed, compared to what I saw/see in my DS.

P.S. DS rode a bike late too... he finally got to the point where the little girl across the street was out learning to ride her bike, so he forced himself to keep trying until he succeeded. He also had issues with foods and smells, and would easily get grossed out when he was younger. That doesn't seem to be an issue for him anymore. Same thing with textures.. actually I could go on and on, but I'll end here. I hope you can get proper testing for him. Best wishes to you both.

[Pixiedust34]

First, I'm not an expert so keep that in mind when you read my post.

Sensory Integration Disorder also came to my mind.

As far as some of the other difficulties, could he have global apraxia? My ds has apraxia of speech. I'm not good at explaining it, but it's sort of like a wiring problem between the brain and muscles (in my ds' case, his is related to speech) which could cause one to be uncoordinated. It could also be low muscle tone. In either circumstance, therapy can help.

As far as the handwriting goes, there is a program called Handwriting Without Tears that is great for children with dysgraphia (difficulty with handwriting skills). My ds struggled with some dysgraphia and this program made a world of difference to him! You can google Handwriting Without Tears and if you decide to use the program it's something you could easily do with him at home.

All the best to you! It's hard to figure out what special needs your child might have under regular circumstances, and I can imagine how much harder it would be going through testing and therapies in another country and with a language barrier. Please keep us posted with how things go. I hope your upcoming appointment is a good one and that someone at the office can either speak English or can speak simply enough in German for you to understand what is being done.

[The Mystery Machine]

The first thing that comes to mind is depression and anxiety. The lack of friends and laying on the floor lacking energy could be a sign of that. You are right on the money to explore medical reasons first.

The thing about depression is that it will affect everything. It is hard to separate his other issues from the mental issues because it is entwined together.

My own dd is on meds for depression and she is seeing a counselor. We also moved and it really did affect her alot. We had ruled out medical issues first.

She also has sensory issues, doesn't know how to ride a bike and her gross motor is not great (never has been since she was a baby). PE is not her favorite subject. Last yr was torture for her. This yr. she has been treated for her depression/anxiety and has been able to make friends in class which makes a huge difference. She still hates PE however she has friends to make it better if that makes sense.

Now her sensory and motor issues are things that she has been slowly overcoming as she gets older, she is 13 now.

To her credit she is very smart and does very well in school so she does have a place to "shine" in school. That is tough to hear that he is struggling in school on top of his other issues.

My advice to you is to work with your doctor and make sure it is nothing medical, that is critical.

I would also see a counselor with regard to learning how to relate to people, making friends, and adjusting to moving. I cannot stress enough how much that helped her.

You will figure it out and your son will shine as long as you trudge through it. At times it can be scary and slow. Key is to keep moving forward.

Now I am working on my 18yodd in college who is seeing a counselor today. She is away at school. You have to think positive and say to yourself it will all work out. But you do have to work it.

[Mkrop]

http://www.sensory-processing-disord...checklist.html

[JESW]

Sorry as I am going out the door...but my ds14 has all those same issues and was diagnosed at age 9 with Asperger's. I know that people don't like labels, but check Asperger's on-line and see if anything fits your son. My son had some tough years but is now in 9th grade and a special program he is doing very well.

I hope you find some answers.

Jill

[clutter]

On the picky food thing. Think about what he does eat and look for commonalities. The no sauce makes me think there's a textural component to it. Is there a visual one as well? Do all of his foods look similar in some way, color, visual texture? I think you're on the right track with his sense of smell, too!

[Wishing on a star]

I don't want to throw a diagnosis, such as Asperger's out there.

But, I just want to chime in that many of the things you describe can indeed apply to these types of conditions/disabilities. Autism Spectrum disorders, or other things that are considered similar.

Now, I am NOT trying to offer a dx, or to scare you at all... I am simply just offering some thoughts and information here.

The processing speed, IMHO, along with the visual/eye-hand coordination issues, etc. might signal a neurological condition that create symptoms that look like an ASD. (inadequate communication between the two sides of the brain... right or left brain deficiency...)

My son has a disability, considered similar to an ASD, but with this, math is usually a deficit and reading/verbal is usually a strong point... ??????

[Kies99]

Question for OP: Are you near a US Military base that is large enough to have a school? I'm assuming you're not military or civilian contractor.

If so, have you talked to them about anything? I believe that the military schools will accomodate civilian children on a tuition basis if space allows. Just thinking that if he was in a US school, he would have access to OT/PT through them.

[a1tinkfans]

Only my opinion, no diagnosis here ....my thoughts are also on Autism Spectrum...AS with sensory integration issues...Very similar patterns of issues you relate.

I want to send you ALL
I always say the same thing...YOU are your childs advocate so it'll be up to you and the choices you make to help your child be successful. It is so hard especially if you are away form family/friend support, so perhaps you yourself can reach out to others to support YOU while you traverse this........

Best of Luck to you all!!!

[NHdisneylover]

I want to post a quick post and tell you all thank you and I will respond to quesitons as soon a I am able to. I got a call from the school as I was proofreading (and then just hit post). DS's asthma (rarely a problem) kicked in and was not responding to his inhaler. We have been at the doctor's office ever since and just made it home and got settled (he's okay now but on higher doses of inhaler and has to stay home frmo school tomorrow so I can keep an eye on him).

I promise to respond to all the questions and ideas (and read thing carefully) jsut as soon as I can. Many thanks.
Hadley

[KAMLEM]

Originally Posted by golfgal

The other thing is low muscle tone, again, classic symptoms, but where the low muscle tone comes from would be what they are trying to figure out. If the Dr wants to do and EEG, he is suspecting something neurological-maybe major like MS, CP (not to scare you or anything)?

That's what I was thinking. My friend's daughters both have this and have many of the same symptoms. They have been dancers for years, but they have a hard time with other physical activities. The younger one loves to play soccer, but she has a very difficult time running. They are both very bright. I don't know a lot about low muscle tone, but what you are describing sounds so much like them.

[NHdisneylover]

First of all, thank you so very much to all of you for your helpful advice, sharing anecdotes about your own family, poitning me to websites, etc. Information does not scare me--not feeling like I have a clue does--so you are all helping me immensly. I am reading every comment and will check out the websote and google also (as soon as the kids are in bed). Lots of people mentioned Aspberger's. I am confused, I have always thought the one big commanality with Aspbergers (and I could be totally wrong--it wouldn't be the first time) is a lack of empathy. Rio has empathy in SPADES. He is sooo compassionate. Does that still seem like maybe a good fit.

I am just quoting things I can respond to specifically.

Originally Posted by golfgal

Did he sit, crawl and walk "on time" as a baby?

I know he walked at 10 months because it "ruined" his turtle halloween costume He took his first steps on the Disney Magic the week he turned 10 months old. I think he sat up, turned over, and crawled on the slightly early side of normal also. He didn't talk much when he was little. We were starting to worry when his olde sister spent a week with her grandmother while we were in the process of moving. As soon as she was not there to anticipate his every need and whim he started talking non stop in full sentences

Originally Posted by golfgal

How does he do with loud noises?

I didn't even think of that. Neither one of my kids can stand loud noises. As in, wanted to leave McDs play areas as toddlers if a loud kid came in, wearing earplugs if they are somewhere with a lot of noise (including all of second grade for DD), etc.

Originally Posted by SeaSpray

SPEAKING. You described my DS to a T. Now that he's older this is rarely an issue. When he was young, sometimes I'd need my older DS to translate for me!! lol

Marika "translates" for her brother all the time

Originally Posted by SeaSpray

ACADEMICS: DS18 has always excelled at math, with no effort at all. And I like how you used the word "intuitively" because that perfectly describes the way my DS approached math. He didn't need pen and paper, and when he got to the higher grades where he had to "show your work" it would frustrate him because he didn't understand why. LOL He tested at the top level on the SATs and state testing and actually won scholarships for college because of his high math scores. Also, the university placed him in their Honors Association too, with additional money for books. Can't beat that.

Congrats to your DS on those scholarships Rio does HATE showing his work. He does not like having to when he just knows the answer, he does not like the extra writing AND if you can get him to thin about HOW he got the answer and break it down into steps for you it is NEVER the conventional way. It is usually some very convoluted way with a million oddball steps--BUT it will be right and he will get there nearly instantaneously. He thinks his sister's geometry homework is loads of fun
[/quote]

Originally Posted by Pixiedust34

As far as the handwriting goes, there is a program called Handwriting Without Tears that is great for children with dysgraphia (difficulty with handwriting skills).

That is the program he was working with in OT in New Hampshire. It was great. I bought all the books and brought them here only to be told he has to learn the "German" letters and numbers. Luckily they do not seem too hard (closer to Handwriting w/o tears than any otehr system I have seen), but I was still sad to leave those behind when he was doing so well with them.

Originally Posted by The Mystery Machine

The first thing that comes to mind is depression and anxiety. The lack of friends and laying on the floor lacking energy could be a sign of that. You are right on the money to explore medical reasons first.

Thank you and for your daughter. I certainly will keep depression/anxiety in mind (and see what the doctor says) but I really do not feel that is it. Rio is a very happy go lucky kind of kid. Very little bothers him. He is not good at PE but doesn't mind it. Is happy to have friends or daydream (he's a big day dreamer--I forgot about that in the OP), always singing and dancing. My DD is the one I see being very anxious and really have to keep an eye on with that. This move IS a big adjustment and I am very aware of it. It is not the first movev the kids have made (DD has lived in 5 US states and DS in 3), but it is much harder to make one THIS big. I am not even sure how to go about finding a counselor here, nor sure what is covered by insurance but it is a good idea.

Originally Posted by clutter

On the picky food thing. Think about what he does eat and look for commonalities. The no sauce makes me think there's a textural component to it. Is there a visual one as well? Do all of his foods look similar in some way, color, visual texture? I think you're on the right track with his sense of smell, too!

Interesting. Thinking about it he mostly likes very "bland" looking foods too. White, beige, yellow, brown--with some orange. His favourites are bagles with cream cheese, grilled cheese, peanuts, apples, pears, pineapple, pasta (no sauce), pizza (cheese or pineapple), mozerella sticks, scrambled eggs, green grapes. All VERY boring to look at He does also like pumpkin pie and bread which at least has some orange in it.

Originally Posted by Kies99

Question for OP: Are you near a US Military base that is large enough to have a school? I'm assuming you're not military or civilian contractor.

If so, have you talked to them about anything? I believe that the military schools will accomodate civilian children on a tuition basis if space allows. Just thinking that if he was in a US school, he would have access to OT/PT through them.

We are very near the a couple of bases. We called them when we very first moved here. We were told that this area has a policy of not taking ANY outside kids ever--even children of Microsoft (or other) employees who are here contracted to work for the millitary cannot attend the schools. I asked how much tuition would be if that policy ever changed and was told aproximately $25,000 per year

Originally Posted by a1tinkfans

I want to send you ALL
I always say the same thing...YOU are your childs advocate so it'll be up to you and the choices you make to help your child be successful. It is so hard especially if you are away form family/friend support, so perhaps you yourself can reach out to others to support YOU while you traverse this........

Best of Luck to you all!!!

Thanks (and again thanks to ALL). That is largely why I posted. I feel so alone right now trying to figure it all out and do what I need to do for Rio. Even my DH is traveling in Japan this week--which is the one country his Blackberry does not work in--so I have no one to even talk to about it (except the DIS)

[SeaSpray]

Originally Posted by NHdisneylover

First of all, thank you so very much to all of you for your helpful advice, sharing anecdotes about your own family, poitning me to websites, etc. Information does not scare me--not feeling like I have a clue does--so you are all helping me immensly. I am reading every comment and will check out the websote and google also (as soon as the kids are in bed). Lots of people mentioned Aspberger's. I am confused, I have always thought the one big commanality with Aspbergers (and I could be totally wrong--it wouldn't be the first time) is a lack of empathy. Rio has empathy in SPADES. He is sooo compassionate. Does that still seem like maybe a good fit.

My DS has a LOT of compassion and while I wouldn't say that he cries "easily", he really can feel for others. For example, when he was little, if he saw a sign for a missing dog or cat he'd be very concerned and ask if we could go help look for it. He was pretty upset when Steve Irwin died, and even when Billy Mays (the sales pitch guy!) died. He wasn't inappropriately upset, I guess I was just surprised that he was upset at all. So I don't think that lack of compassion is a trait of Asperger's.

What IS a trait of Asperger's is being unable to recognise your own inappropriate behaviour. My DS doesn't have this trait to a strong degree, and another thing that some people with Asperger's don't have is the ability to discern sarcasm or a dry sense of humor, yet my DS has no problem in those areas. Each person with Asperger's is uniquely different, they just share certain traits, to varying degrees.

The thing with Asperger's is that each of its traits can widely vary, person to person. My DS seems to have a fairly mild form of it because it has never really impacted his life to the point where he had to have intervention in school on his behalf, except for the handwriting. If anything, his "quirks" from having Asperger's has actually been a benefit to him, he's quite a remarkable person, and probably the one person I'd choose to be stuck on an island with because I'd never be bored with him around. LOL

You mentioned your DSs imagination; when my DS was little, he would narrate stories to me and I'd have to write them for him (this was when he was a pre-schooler and not yet writing sentences), and then he'd illustrate his stories.

Robby can't stand loud noises either, and when he was in elementary and middle school, he'd come home physically ill from all of the "noise" on the bus on the way back from field trips. The other kids would just be singing and having a good time, not especially wild or anything, but Robby's system just couldn't deal with it. It was like overload for his brain.

You mentioned that your DS thinks that his sister's homework is fun; well when Robby was in 7th grade he took the SATs for the first time, and when he came out of the test he exclaimed "That was FUN!" LOL He couldn't wait to take it again. LOL

Again, I'm not trying to diagnose your DS, but I remember when I read the checklist of Asperger's, I finally realized all of Robby's quirks added up to an actual.. thing! lol Before that, we really just thought Robby was a cute, funny, intelligent, quirky kid. He has qualities that we know will serve him very well during his life.

Please keep us updated and let us know how your DS is doing!