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Old 09-11-2009, 01:54 PM   #1
billfatora
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e-cigarette update

A few weeks ago, I posted a question about "e-cigarettes". Although I believe the thread became "off-topic", I've decided to follow up on it because of a response I received from Walt Disney World, this morning. (with permission of the Moderator).
I received a phone call this morning from a "Walt Disney World Guest Relations Senior Representative" to discuss their policy (or lack thereof) regarding "e-cigarettes". The Representative was very friendly and gave me the follow information:

Although Walt Disney World does not yet have a policy specifically addressing "e-cigarettes", it is their genreal policy that smoking is smoking, and a cigarette is a cigarette.... [this I DO NOT AGREE WITH - according to the way it was further explained to me, if I have a pen in my mouth - I'm smoking] and, therefore, should be confined only to "Designated Smoking Areas" [this I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH !]
Upon further discussion it was noted that: ...while the policy, as it currently exists, is quite clear; that it is also a fact that these "electronic cigarette substitutions" do not "burn" and CANNOT BE DETECTED. And it is, therefore, the hope of Walt Disney World, that people refrain from "using them" [note the use of the phrase "using them" and not the words "smoking them" used here] in their Resort rooms, while staying on Walt Disney World Property.
I was led to believe that, eventually, Walt Disney World does have intentions of addressing this particular issue - and further, that although they do stand by their current position on the issue, that they do so more to simplify the "policing" of the current policy, then the question of whether this an issue of smoking or not....
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Old 09-11-2009, 02:27 PM   #2
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I'm curious ... what would the effect of an electric cigarette be on a hotel room? AFAIK, there is no smoke and no fire. Would the water vapor damage things? Would the residual nicotine damage things? Do these things harm anyone else other than their users?
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Old 09-11-2009, 02:47 PM   #3
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I've never even heard of an e-cigarette.

What is it?

If it is something that is a fire hazard, I could see Disney having a problem with it...like using a hotplate.

If it still uses some kind of nicotine product, does it leave residue or create any mess like an ashtray would be needed?
I would say that Disney would just stay consistent with anything smoking related so that people don't take extra liberties. Kind of a zero tolerence policy.
(I don't see putting a pen in your mouth as the same thing...then eating a lollipop at Disney would be only in smoking areas....both are ridiculous analogies to smoking).

That all being said, I have seen people smoking all over the place at Disney (not often, but it does happen) and I have never seen a CM confront the smoker about it.
I have walked through clouds of smoke while walking to a ride and talking to a family member and had to stop and cough and get my breath because my air was stollen from me when I hit that cloud of toxic smoke.
I did NOT appreciate that happening.
It may not seem like a big deal to a smoker, but to those of us who are not used to that sensation, it can really create an instant choking response.
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Old 09-11-2009, 02:51 PM   #4
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I just looked them up online and don't really understand completely.

I see that the cigarette doesn't create any smoke 'as advertised', but when you use it, what do you exhale out of your mouth?

If you are inhaling nicotine vapor, wouldn't you be exhaling nicotine 'vapor'?

Wouldn't that exhaled air have an odor?
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Old 09-11-2009, 02:55 PM   #5
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double post
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:04 PM   #6
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Thanks OP. I've purchased an E-cigarette specifically for my WDW trip 2 weeks from today. I really hadn't even thought about a WDW policy on them since they 1) have no fire whatsoever, 2) use only a water based vapor pulled from the atmosphere, 3) the nicotene is injested only by the user, and finally 4) have no adverse effects on anyone not actually using the device.

I have thought about the possible policy the FAA might have and have called them. They said they consider them to be like any other electronic device and are therefore allowable as a carry-on or in your checked baggage.

My personal thoughts are that while I don't plan to use it while seated on the plane (only because from a distance, it looks like a real cigarette), I will likely carry it with me on any trip to the restroom and use it there. While at WDW, I do plan on using it in my room. I don't plan on using it while in que lines (again, only because it does look like a real cigarette from a distance).
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robinb View Post
I'm curious ... what would the effect of an electric cigarette be on a hotel room? AFAIK, there is no smoke and no fire. Would the water vapor damage things? Would the residual nicotine damage things? Do these things harm anyone else other than their users?
According to the literature... none. There is no smoke (only water vapor) and no fire... and I seriously doubt that the amount of water vapor released would damage anything. There is no nicotine residual because it is inhaled into the body and is immediately absorbed, so when you exhale, none is released. You statement shows that you believe that they are harmful to the user (as many people do) but, in fact, they are sold as a deterent to smoking cigarettes....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeanieblue114 View Post
I just looked them up online and don't really understand completely.

I see that the cigarette doesn't create any smoke 'as advertised', but when you use it, what do you exhale out of your mouth?

If you are inhaling nicotine vapor, wouldn't you be exhaling nicotine 'vapor'?

Wouldn't that exhaled air have an odor?
What is given off buy the "e-cigarette", that appears to be smoke, is actually only water vapor, and you exhale nothing but the air you have inhaled... plus Carbon Dioxide, of course. And as far as exhaling nicotine vapor - according to the manufacturers - no, you do not exhale any nicotine becasue it is immediately absorbed in the lungs. As for the odor, assuming you are speaking directly about the "e-cigarette", they do not release a "cigarette" or "burning" odor; however, some manufacturers provide "flavor cartridges", such as apple or cherry, and I am told that, in some instances, you can detect such a slight odor, quite similar to a room air freshener, that disipates very quickly.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeanieblue114 View Post
I just looked them up online and don't really understand completely.

I see that the cigarette doesn't create any smoke 'as advertised', but when you use it, what do you exhale out of your mouth?

If you are inhaling nicotine vapor, wouldn't you be exhaling nicotine 'vapor'?

Wouldn't that exhaled air have an odor?
What is exhaled out of your mouth is an alcohol/water vapor that apparently dissipates very quickly (within several inches of your mouth).

It is odorless and has no residue.

It has no flame and has no effect on anyone nearby.

It leaves no ash or waste.

Nicotine is optional - you may buy cartridges for these e-cigarettes that contain various levels of nicotine, from strong to none. Several flavors are also available, such as vanilla or cinammon. These flavors should have no or very little odor upon exhale.

(BTW - I am not, nor ever have been a smoker...this is just what I have learned about these devices from a relative who wanted to buy one to help reduce smoking or eventually quit...I read up on them to help).

I should think anyone who is a non-smoker should be pretty happy with these - the entire cause against smoking was always that it affected more than just the smoker, so this device takes care of that objection. I certainly prefer them to cigarettes!
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darlak View Post
Thanks OP. I've purchased an E-cigarette specifically for my WDW trip 2 weeks from today. I really hadn't even thought about a WDW policy on them since they 1) have no fire whatsoever, 2) use only a water based vapor pulled from the atmosphere, 3) the nicotene is injested only by the user, and finally 4) have no adverse effects on anyone not actually using the device.

I have thought about the possible policy the FAA might have and have called them. They said they consider them to be like any other electronic device and are therefore allowable as a carry-on or in your checked baggage.

My personal thoughts are that while I don't plan to use it while seated on the plane (only because from a distance, it looks like a real cigarette), I will likely carry it with me on any trip to the restroom and use it there. While at WDW, I do plan on using it in my room. I don't plan on using it while in que lines (again, only because it does look like a real cigarette from a distance).
As far as the FAA and the plane... not only are you correct, but I have had contact with a person that actually used one, while seated on the plane, with no problems - once it was determined that it wasn't a "real" cigarette.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zackiedawg View Post
What is exhaled out of your mouth is an alcohol/water vapor that apparently dissipates very quickly (within several inches of your mouth).

It is odorless and has no residue.

It has no flame and has no effect on anyone nearby.

It leaves no ash or waste.

Nicotine is optional - you may buy cartridges for these e-cigarettes that contain various levels of nicotine, from strong to none. Several flavors are also available, such as vanilla or cinammon. These flavors should have no or very little odor upon exhale.

(BTW - I am not, nor ever have been a smoker...this is just what I have learned about these devices from a relative who wanted to buy one to help reduce smoking or eventually quit...I read up on them to help).

I should think anyone who is a non-smoker should be pretty happy with these - the entire cause against smoking was always that it affected more than just the smoker, so this device takes care of that objection. I certainly prefer them to cigarettes!

WOW ! I couldn't have said it better.
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Old 09-11-2009, 04:16 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by billfatora View Post
According to the literature... none. There is no smoke (only water vapor) and no fire... and I seriously doubt that the amount of water vapor released would damage anything. There is no nicotine residual because it is inhaled into the body and is immediately absorbed, so when you exhale, none is released. You statement shows that you believe that they are harmful to the user (as many people do) but, in fact, they are sold as a deterent to smoking cigarettes....



What is given off buy the "e-cigarette", that appears to be smoke, is actually only water vapor, and you exhale nothing but the air you have inhaled... plus Carbon Dioxide, of course. And as far as exhaling nicotine vapor - according to the manufacturers - no, you do not exhale any nicotine becasue it is immediately absorbed in the lungs. As for the odor, assuming you are speaking directly about the "e-cigarette", they do not release a "cigarette" or "burning" odor; however, some manufacturers provide "flavor cartridges", such as apple or cherry, and I am told that, in some instances, you can detect such a slight odor, quite similar to a room air freshener, that disipates very quickly.

It is great that there is something else on the market to help smokers quit or to use something when they can't smoke that will not bother others as much as a cigarette will. I would much rather be by someone using one of these than have smoke blown in my face.

I also agree with what the persont he OP talked to from disney said - that these should be used in the smoking section. Like others have said, lots of people are not aware of what these are (for example, I wasn't until I read about them here a couple of months ago). I think using them wherever will cause trouble and anger amongst both parties.

I liken it to this example - would you be allowed to drink out of a Jack Daniels' bottle in MK if it just had tea in it? You are not drinking alcohol, but to others it would appear you are. You know?

Even though I think e-cigs are definitely better than real cigs, I don't believe it is right to act like e-cigs are "totally" safe. Lately, not surprisingly, there has been concern raised by the FDA about the "safety" of e-cigs.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/07/22...ref=newssearch

From that article:

"Because e-cigarettes have not been submitted to the FDA for evaluation or approval, the agency had no way of knowing the levels of nicotine or the amounts or kinds of other chemicals that the various brands of these products deliver to the user. That is why the FDA began to test them.

The FDA's Division of Pharmaceutical Analysis analyzed the ingredients in a small sample of cartridges from two leading brands of e-cigarettes. In releasing its information, the FDA did not identify the two companies, but said in one sample, diethylene glycol -- a chemical used in antifreeze that is toxic to humans -- was detected. Other samples detected carcinogens that are dangerous to those who smoke them, the FDA said.

The FDA has been examining and seizing shipments of non-U.S.-made e-cigarettes at the U.S. border since summer 2008. To date, 50 shipments have been stopped. The products examined thus far meet the definition of a combination drug-device product under the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act.

We know very little about these devices, said Dr. Jonathan Samet, director of the Institute for Global Health at the University of Southern California, "but to say they are healthy -- that's highly doubtful."

I have no idea how many of the e-cigs sold in the U.S. are made in the U.S., and I have no idea if they would have similar findings. But, I would bet they would have some bad crap in them, too.

Of course the manufacturers are going to say e-cigs are safe - they want to sell their product. Tobacco companies used to advertise cigs as safe, too.

Have these products really been out long enough to know the possible long term effects? That would be my major concern about them.
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Old 09-11-2009, 04:38 PM   #12
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Even though I think e-cigs are definitely better than real cigs, I don't believe it is right to act like e-cigs are "totally" safe. Lately, not surprisingly, there has been concern raised by the FDA about the "safety" of e-cigs...Have these products really been out long enough to know the possible long term effects? That would be my major concern about them.
Probably not...but I think the general point would be that if cigarettes only caused harm or discomfort to the user, and not to anyone else, the whole debate on smoking would be moot. The crux of nearly every anti-smoking argument is that the smoke is affecting others, and therefore not just a personal choice. So if these e-cigarettes don't affect anyone but the user, isn't that just what everyone's been clamoring for?

We certainly don't want to get into a police state mentality where we don't allow anyone to make a personal choice that may potentially be unhealthy to oneself...right? If someone wants to 'smoke' an e-cigarette, and it harms them and not anyone else...okee dokee by me. Same for alcohol consumption, eating fatty foods, too much sugar...the list is endless of things that can harm us individually.

I do agree someone considering an e-cig should read as much as they can, and decide for themselves if they are worth the possible risks...but for the rest of us, the upside to e-cigarettes is huge.
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Old 09-11-2009, 05:03 PM   #13
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Probably not...but I think the general point would be that if cigarettes only caused harm or discomfort to the user, and not to anyone else, the whole debate on smoking would be moot. The crux of nearly every anti-smoking argument is that the smoke is affecting others, and therefore not just a personal choice. So if these e-cigarettes don't affect anyone but the user, isn't that just what everyone's been clamoring for?

We certainly don't want to get into a police state mentality where we don't allow anyone to make a personal choice that may potentially be unhealthy to oneself...right? If someone wants to 'smoke' an e-cigarette, and it harms them and not anyone else...okee dokee by me. Same for alcohol consumption, eating fatty foods, too much sugar...the list is endless of things that can harm us individually.

I do agree someone considering an e-cig should read as much as they can, and decide for themselves if they are worth the possible risks...but for the rest of us, the upside to e-cigarettes is huge.
I don't really understand why you are talking about a "police state" mentality in regards to my post. If someone wants to smoke an e-cig, go ahead (I don't care if you do it to yourself - I don't care if you cut yourself or use drugs or whatever if it doesn't affect me or my loved ones)- but you still have to follow the guidelines of the place you are in.

In your own home or yard you can go to town on them. But when you purchase a WDW ticket, you agree to their rules. If WDW tells you that you need to use an e-cig in the smoking area, then that is what you are going to need to do. It is their property. Since this device is relatively new and not in stone on the rulebooks yet, I can understand someone questioning what their rule is like the OP did.

I didn't say that no one should be allowed to use these anywhere. I was just stating that they are not as safe as some want you to believe and providing some information on that. I point out that for my personal comfort and for those in my family, in WDW, I would rather be around one of these than cigs. But since we don't smoke and don't plan on hitting up the smoking areas, then I shouldn't be around one (in theory). I'm not coming to an e-cig user's home, car, boat, yard whatever and telling them what to do.

Like I said in my post I think they are much better for the community in general than cigs are.

And e-cigs can cause discomfort to others. My husband was taking an exam when someone pulled one of these out and used it. The vapor that her's emitted (I guess it was a flavored one? I don't know) did have an odor which caused his throat to hurt and led to a headache. I am NOT saying that a lot of people will be have this happen, just giving an example I know about.

When I said my concern for long time effects I was referring to the users. I don't believe people should totally dismiss them as safe when evidence is coming out they aren't totally safe. Like I said, I DON'T CARE IF YOU WANT TO DO SOMETHING TO HURT YOURSELF.
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Old 09-11-2009, 05:51 PM   #14
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From what I've read on these, They are odorless, so would anyone at WDW (or anywhere) even know you had used one in your room? I'm VERY sensitive to smoke, and would definately know if someone had smoked in the room before I checked in. From what I've read, these are basically undetectable.
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Old 09-11-2009, 07:45 PM   #15
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I have only seen these one time, and that was by a guest in line at PotC. (inside the bldg)
A CM came running over asking him to extinguish his cigarette.
The guest explained what it was, and put it out as he was asked.
I think the downside is that other people do not realize it is not a regular cigarette. (We did see what looked like cigarette smoke coming from the end.) I could see another smoker figuring others were smoking, so they could too, and light up.
The guy was acting as if it was a regular cigarette, even blowing up into the air.
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