Tell me again, why isn't this a hate crime? - The DIS Discussion Forums

LuvOrlando · 08-05-2009, 04:04 PM

Tell me again, why this isn't a 'hate crime'? Some guy walking into a public place and kills a bunch of women, has in his possession a note declaring he did it because he hates women, yet this isn't a hate crime. Sure sounds like one to me, and it's all there on paper.

BTW, whatever became of that family attacked on the 4th of July?

From CNN

(CNN) -- A gunman walked into an LA Fitness gym outside Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, turned off the lights and fired off 50 rounds, killing three women before killing himself Tuesday evening, police said.
Authorities are at the scene of a shooting at an LA Fitness gym near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

Authorities are at the scene of a shooting at an LA Fitness gym near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

The man didn't speak but was carrying a gym bag with a note inside it. He was found dead in the gym lying on top a gun about 7 feet away from a victim, said Charles Moffatt, Allegheny County police superintendent.

At least 10 other people were injured in the barrage of bullets that sent people in the gym ducking for cover, Moffatt said.

A law enforcement source identified the gunman as George Sodini, a 48-year-old gym member.

Moffatt would not release the name of the victims during a Wednesday news conference.

Sodini was a systems analyst in the finance department of K&L Gates, a law firm with an office in Pittsburgh, said Mike Rick, a spokesman for the firm. Sodini had worked for the firm since 1999, Rick said.

Neighbors described Sodini as a bit of a recluse. They said he had stopped talking to neighbors.
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The gunman apparently was on a mission, Moffatt said.

"He did what he set out to do, and I think nobody could have stopped him, " he said. Video Watch whom the shooter may have been targeting »

Moffatt would not confirm a newspaper report that Sodini's ex-girlfriend was wounded in the shooting.

He also did not say what was written on the note that was found in Sodini's gym bag. But the law enforcement source said that the gunman in the note "talks about his hatred of women."

Sodini entered the fitness center around 8 p.m. Tuesday and went straight to an aerobics classroom, where he opened fire with multiple handguns, Moffatt said.

Police have recovered six handguns, the source said. Four of them were purchased before 2000, and the other two were bought last year.

The shooting victims arrived at three major hospitals in the area.

A spokeswoman for UPMC Mercy Hospital confirmed five female shooting victims arrived at the facility with multiple gunshot wounds. "All arrived in critical condition," hospital spokeswoman Linda Ross said. "Three of them were upgraded to serious condition overnight."

Allegheny General Hospital received two wounded patients at its trauma center, a spokesman said. Both victims are women and were listed in fair condition early Wednesday.

A St. Clair Hospital spokesman said three shooting victims arrived there Tuesday night; two were in stable condition and one, who was shot in the chest, died at about 8:55 p.m.

Perry Calabro of nearby Bridgeville told CNN he was between racquetball games at the gym when he suddenly heard screaming and multiple gunshots. He said he ran out but didn't see the gunman or others.

Other witnesses told CNN affiliate WTAE-TV in Pittsburgh that the lights went out before they saw flashes in dark, later realizing it was gunfire.

Sodini apparently left behind an online diary that details his loneliness and longing for a female companion -- and his growing rage at what he perceived as rejection by women. The diary lists Sodini's dates of birth and death, with the death date listed as Tuesday, the same day as the shootings. Read the diary (PDF)

The source who identified Sodini provided a month and year of birth that matches the birth date listed on Sodini's diary.

The diary seems to offer a rare glimpse into the mind of the suspected killer.

"Why do this?? To young girls? Just read below. I kept a running log that includes my thoughts and actions after I saw this project was going to drag on," the diary begins.

Throughout the log, the writer refers to a shooting that he is planning as an "exit plan."

The first entry is November 5, 2008. "Planned to do this in the summer but figure to stick around to see the election outcome," it says.
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The December 22 entry says: "Time is moving along. Planned to have this done already. I will just keep a running log here as time passes. Many of the young girls here look so beautiful as to not be human, very edible. After joining this gym, started lifting weights and like it."

The Web site on which the diary appears is registered to George Sodini of Pittsburgh. It lists an address in or near Scott Township. The law enforcement source said Sodini lived in Scott Township

PrincessKsMom · 08-05-2009, 04:16 PM

I completely agree, but does it really matter anymore? The gunman is dead so there's no one to punish for the crime.

LuvOrlando · 08-05-2009, 04:28 PM

I know this may come off as snarky but it really isn't meant to be.

I think the families that lost loved ones care just like the families of suicide bombers might care that they were victims of terrorism, KWIM.

PrincessKsMom · 08-05-2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuvOrlando

I know this may come off as snarky but it really isn't meant to be.

I think the families that lost loved ones care just like the families of suicide bombers might care that they were victims of terrorism, KWIM.

I know you're not being snarky, and believe me I'm not either, but I'm truly confused as to what this will get them? I understand if the gunman was alive it would get him a longer jail sentence, and the families might be able to sue, but if he's dead, what can they get that would make this any easier? Honestly, I'm asking questions because I don't understand NOT because I'm being snarky or difficult.

DisneyBamaFan · 08-05-2009, 04:36 PM

This guy was disturbed. I am not sure that you can pin a "hate crime" on someone who is mentally disturbed. From his blog, he seemed to hate himself more than anyone else...

LuvOrlando · 08-05-2009, 04:41 PM

This is what it is and to me, saying "who cares" because the guy is already dead misses the point entirely... at least my point.

Regrading being disturbed, what killer isn't disturbed? Since Hitler was obviously disturbed does that mean he was not guilty of hate crimes?

DisneyBamaFan · 08-05-2009, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuvOrlando

...Regrading being disturbed, what killer isn't disturbed? Since Hitler was obviously disturbed does that mean he was not guilty of hate crimes?

The question is motive. This man seemed to want to die. He planned this a few times and backed out, calling himself a coward. The murder of the women was just a vehicle to force him to kill himself...

LuvOrlando · 08-05-2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DisneyBamaFan

The question is motive. This man seemed to want to die. He planned this a few times and backed out, calling himself a coward. The murder of the women was just a vehicle to force him to kill himself...

I respectfully disagree.

DisneyBamaFan · 08-05-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuvOrlando

I respectfully disagree.

That's cool...

tinatark · 08-05-2009, 05:39 PM

Having crimes classified as hate crimes seems very subjective.

Sorry to go OT, but

We have a white couple here who were carjacked, kidnapped, raped and murdered (that's the LIGHT version of what happened, hearing/reading about the case gives me nightmares ) by a group of black people. Prosecutors didn't charge it as a hate crime, saying the group wanted the car. HELLO? The couple was tied up and tortured for DAYS... that tells me the crime was about inflicting the most humiliating harm upon the couple before killing them. Here's their story - it's wikipedia, but sources are cited and the story is accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_...stopher_Newsom

Disney Doll · 08-05-2009, 07:33 PM

It seems like only crimes against certain societal "groups" are considered "hate crimes".

Crimes against women where the murderer actually leaves a note that says "I hate women" apparently are not considered "hate crimes", even with the use of the word "hate" by the actual perpetrator.

Seems strange to me, but then again, so do a lot of things about out world today....

MarkBarbieri · 08-05-2009, 07:47 PM

When is murder not a hate crime?

I have to say that I agree with the poster that said that it doesn't make a practical difference. I suppose it might factor into hate crime statistics or something. Still, in the overall scheme of things with so many people murdered and wounded, determine whether this is officially a "hate crime" or not seems pretty trivial. What difference will it really make?

Rence · 08-05-2009, 07:55 PM

I don't get your point - no where does it say that this is not a hate crime. No one will be charged with a hate crime because there is no one alive to charge. If the gunman had lived and was not charged with a hate crime, then you may have a point.

mrs_hower726 · 08-05-2009, 08:15 PM

[quote=Disney Doll;33037113]It seems like only crimes against certain societal "groups" are considered "hate crimes".

QUOTE]

I completely agree.

Stacerita · 08-05-2009, 09:59 PM

The gunman is dead. Can't charge him with a crime, let alone a hate crime.

08-05-2009, 04:04 PM	#1
LuvOrlando DIS Veteran Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Land of Confusion -Disturbed Posts: 4,439	Tell me again, why isn't this a hate crime? Tell me again, why this isn't a 'hate crime'? Some guy walking into a public place and kills a bunch of women, has in his possession a note declaring he did it because he hates women, yet this isn't a hate crime. Sure sounds like one to me, and it's all there on paper. BTW, whatever became of that family attacked on the 4th of July? From CNN (CNN) -- A gunman walked into an LA Fitness gym outside Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, turned off the lights and fired off 50 rounds, killing three women before killing himself Tuesday evening, police said. Authorities are at the scene of a shooting at an LA Fitness gym near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Authorities are at the scene of a shooting at an LA Fitness gym near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. The man didn't speak but was carrying a gym bag with a note inside it. He was found dead in the gym lying on top a gun about 7 feet away from a victim, said Charles Moffatt, Allegheny County police superintendent. At least 10 other people were injured in the barrage of bullets that sent people in the gym ducking for cover, Moffatt said. A law enforcement source identified the gunman as George Sodini, a 48-year-old gym member. Moffatt would not release the name of the victims during a Wednesday news conference. Sodini was a systems analyst in the finance department of K&L Gates, a law firm with an office in Pittsburgh, said Mike Rick, a spokesman for the firm. Sodini had worked for the firm since 1999, Rick said. Neighbors described Sodini as a bit of a recluse. They said he had stopped talking to neighbors. Don't Miss * In diary, shooting suspect shares despair * WPXI: Four people killed in gym shooting * WTAE: Suspect identified in fitness shooting * iReport.com: Are you there? Send images The gunman apparently was on a mission, Moffatt said. "He did what he set out to do, and I think nobody could have stopped him, " he said. Video Watch whom the shooter may have been targeting » Moffatt would not confirm a newspaper report that Sodini's ex-girlfriend was wounded in the shooting. He also did not say what was written on the note that was found in Sodini's gym bag. But the law enforcement source said that the gunman in the note "talks about his hatred of women." Sodini entered the fitness center around 8 p.m. Tuesday and went straight to an aerobics classroom, where he opened fire with multiple handguns, Moffatt said. Police have recovered six handguns, the source said. Four of them were purchased before 2000, and the other two were bought last year. The shooting victims arrived at three major hospitals in the area. A spokeswoman for UPMC Mercy Hospital confirmed five female shooting victims arrived at the facility with multiple gunshot wounds. "All arrived in critical condition," hospital spokeswoman Linda Ross said. "Three of them were upgraded to serious condition overnight." Allegheny General Hospital received two wounded patients at its trauma center, a spokesman said. Both victims are women and were listed in fair condition early Wednesday. A St. Clair Hospital spokesman said three shooting victims arrived there Tuesday night; two were in stable condition and one, who was shot in the chest, died at about 8:55 p.m. Perry Calabro of nearby Bridgeville told CNN he was between racquetball games at the gym when he suddenly heard screaming and multiple gunshots. He said he ran out but didn't see the gunman or others. Other witnesses told CNN affiliate WTAE-TV in Pittsburgh that the lights went out before they saw flashes in dark, later realizing it was gunfire. Sodini apparently left behind an online diary that details his loneliness and longing for a female companion -- and his growing rage at what he perceived as rejection by women. The diary lists Sodini's dates of birth and death, with the death date listed as Tuesday, the same day as the shootings. Read the diary (PDF) The source who identified Sodini provided a month and year of birth that matches the birth date listed on Sodini's diary. The diary seems to offer a rare glimpse into the mind of the suspected killer. "Why do this?? To young girls? Just read below. I kept a running log that includes my thoughts and actions after I saw this project was going to drag on," the diary begins. Throughout the log, the writer refers to a shooting that he is planning as an "exit plan." The first entry is November 5, 2008. "Planned to do this in the summer but figure to stick around to see the election outcome," it says. advertisement The December 22 entry says: "Time is moving along. Planned to have this done already. I will just keep a running log here as time passes. Many of the young girls here look so beautiful as to not be human, very edible. After joining this gym, started lifting weights and like it." The Web site on which the diary appears is registered to George Sodini of Pittsburgh. It lists an address in or near Scott Township. The law enforcement source said Sodini lived in Scott Township __________________ Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter Last edited by LuvOrlando; 08-05-2009 at 04:57 PM.

08-05-2009, 04:16 PM	#2
PrincessKsMom Sorry, it's not your day to eat, maybe tomorrow Puppy Cam Addict You never forget your first time Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: New Jersey Posts: 5,309	I completely agree, but does it really matter anymore? The gunman is dead so there's no one to punish for the crime. __________________ 7/79 - Off site; 7/80 - Off site; 11/98 - Off site; 1/05 - CBR; 2/06 - ASMovies; 8/08 - ASMovies; 8/09 - CBR; 4/10 - CBR

08-05-2009, 04:28 PM	#3
LuvOrlando DIS Veteran Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Land of Confusion -Disturbed Posts: 4,439	I know this may come off as snarky but it really isn't meant to be. I think the families that lost loved ones care just like the families of suicide bombers might care that they were victims of terrorism, KWIM. __________________ Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

08-05-2009, 04:36 PM	#5
DisneyBamaFan Alabama - 2009 National Champions Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Blairstown, NJ Posts: 3,007	This guy was disturbed. I am not sure that you can pin a "hate crime" on someone who is mentally disturbed. From his blog, he seemed to hate himself more than anyone else... __________________ Roll Tide!!!

08-05-2009, 04:41 PM	#6
LuvOrlando DIS Veteran Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Land of Confusion -Disturbed Posts: 4,439	This is what it is and to me, saying "who cares" because the guy is already dead misses the point entirely... at least my point. Regrading being disturbed, what killer isn't disturbed? Since Hitler was obviously disturbed does that mean he was not guilty of hate crimes? __________________ Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

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08-05-2009, 05:39 PM	#10
tinatark DIS Veteran Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: TN Posts: 2,528	Having crimes classified as hate crimes seems very subjective. Sorry to go OT, but We have a white couple here who were carjacked, kidnapped, raped and murdered (that's the LIGHT version of what happened, hearing/reading about the case gives me nightmares ) by a group of black people. Prosecutors didn't charge it as a hate crime, saying the group wanted the car. HELLO? The couple was tied up and tortured for DAYS... that tells me the crime was about inflicting the most humiliating harm upon the couple before killing them. Here's their story - it's wikipedia, but sources are cited and the story is accurate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_...stopher_Newsom

08-05-2009, 07:33 PM	#11
Disney Doll DIS Security Matron Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Trumbull,CT,USA Posts: 22,336	It seems like only crimes against certain societal "groups" are considered "hate crimes". Crimes against women where the murderer actually leaves a note that says "I hate women" apparently are not considered "hate crimes", even with the use of the word "hate" by the actual perpetrator. Seems strange to me, but then again, so do a lot of things about out world today.... __________________ Disney Doll Prepare your child for the path, not the path for your child. Stop telling your God how big the storm is. Instead, tell the storm how big your God is. It's time to put on your big girl panties and deal with it! He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion. ~~In loving memory of Teddy~~1994-2007~~

08-05-2009, 07:47 PM	#12
MarkBarbieri Mouseketographer 180? That's for wimps Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: The Woodlands, TX Posts: 4,734	When is murder not a hate crime? I have to say that I agree with the poster that said that it doesn't make a practical difference. I suppose it might factor into hate crime statistics or something. Still, in the overall scheme of things with so many people murdered and wounded, determine whether this is officially a "hate crime" or not seems pretty trivial. What difference will it really make? __________________ See my old Disney pictures and slideshows at http://photos.barbierifamily.org/Disney. Read my 2006 trip report at Mark's Photo Trip Report.

08-05-2009, 07:55 PM	#13
Rence Anyone who puts fashion above all else can't be all bad Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,247	I don't get your point - no where does it say that this is not a hate crime. No one will be charged with a hate crime because there is no one alive to charge. If the gunman had lived and was not charged with a hate crime, then you may have a point.

08-05-2009, 08:15 PM	#14
mrs_hower726 The Steelers are 6-time Super Bowl Champs!!! :) Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 472	[quote=Disney Doll;33037113]It seems like only crimes against certain societal "groups" are considered "hate crimes". QUOTE] I completely agree. __________________ Me-30 DH-35 Four crazy cats!

08-05-2009, 09:59 PM	#15
Stacerita AKA the Lexus TinklerMy bad-its Miss Understood. Sorry. Got my drag queens mixed I guess I did look more like a Hooter's girl than I wanted to Join Date: May 2004 Location: Anaheim, Ca Posts: 13,782	The gunman is dead. Can't charge him with a crime, let alone a hate crime. __________________ Diva Las Vegas Inappropriate graphics will be deleted from signatures. Please remember this is a family-friendly site

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