This is long but I would like to know what you would do.....?

[PoppyAnna]

Something has happened today that has made me feel hurt and cross.
I am wondering how to deal with it and I'd like to know how those of you that are further along your career as parents would deal with it.

Today at pre-school my Poppy was sitting at a craft table with another child and a teacher when two girls approached and ask for the dressing up goggles she was wearing, as she had only just put the on she said that she wasn't finished with them yet. The teacher backed her up and said Poppy would share them shortly. The girl came back asked for them again and the same explanation happened but the girl then picked up a pair of scissors and cut Poppy on the elbow, she has a one inch cut on her elbow.

The preschool leader was devastated when she was telling me, she said she wasn't going to tell me which child it was but naturally when Poppy did I would be shocked and that Poppy had done nothing to provoke the attack. She confirmed that she had already spoken to the mum of the child.
The little girl that did it was my friends little girl We are not really close friends but our eldest children went to the same preschool and we see each other at preschool now and our children go to each others birthday parties etc. Occasionally the old preschool mum group goes out for pizza and wine, thats about it. A couple of years ago she became a childminder a few days a week and has older kids after school too, she is always moaning about ALL the children, minded and otherwise. She is having serious behaviour problems with her 6 yr old son, which she admits is due to the childminding and attention issues.
Monday is the one day she doesn't have any minded children and she's always palming her DD of on monday afternoon after preschool with anybody even though it's the only day she gets with her own kids. I recently offered that her DD come back for lunch and a play on a thursday after preschool but she asked me if I could take her on a monday instead! To be honest I said I couldn't do that day, but I only said that as I felt I being used.
Thing is, she would know what her DD has done this afternoon, but she left preschool sharp and I've had no phonecall, no text, no apology. All afternoon she's been changing her facebook status to things like "had a great day, no work at all, no [dd's name name] this afternoon so looking forward to just my own angels after school this afternoon" and "making cakes with my cherubs.....great day today" etc etc. From a woman who usually moans constantly about her kids, and shouts at them the whole time she is in their company.
I, on the otherhand have spent the afternoon comforting my child and taking the time to explain to her that what "x" did was wrong and it's not a nice thing to do and she shouldn't copy it. I also had to come home and tell my Dh who was so cross.
If the tables were turned I would have made Poppy apologise to the child again in front of their parent and then taken her home and done sorry pictures etc for the child the next time they met. She also would have had treats taken away for a set period. That would be the minimum punishment for going for another child with a pair of scissors. I personally would be mortified if my child did such a thing.

You hurt my child and you hurt me too, I've had an awful afternoon and evening, I know kids do these things and the teacher did say it was out of character, but they had noticed a change in her behaviour lately. IMHO this is a four year old child that should know better as she is due to start school soon. My Poppy is no angel and she does stand up for herself but she has never harmed another child, to be honest my first thought was I wondered if Poppy retaliated, and I asked but she didn't, she was so shocked.

It's the preschool sports day on wednesday and I'm due to see them again, I'll be honest, I'm not looking forward to seeing her.

[Pinky166]

Ohhh Joanne, I have no advice as I don't know how I would react but I just want to give you a big hug. I can just imagine how upset you are.

I hope some other mums will be along soon to give you some advice.

[bronny]

Aw bless her. Its so hard when things like that happen. My son has often fallen out with my friends' children and it is a difficult situation but at ALL times either myself or my friends have spoken to the child at fault and ensured that the children have apologised to each other. I don't blame you for feeling angry, I certainly would be most upset at the mother for not approaching you to apologise (or to make her child apologise). On the good side it seems that the pre-school staff are brilliant, my son had terrible problems with bullying throughout primary school and I must admit I had a heated exchange with the mother of the ring leader in the playground after one particularly nasty attack - needless to say the school was severely lacking in either support or quashing the problem!

[saratogagirl]

I hope some mums will be along soon to give you some advice, I am not the right person for it, I am so shocked and my initial reaction is not repeatable on here, I hate a bully, I am mortified that she cut Poppy, hopefully some sensible people will come along soon - big hugs to you and little Poppy.

[scottish mum]

Personally if my dd, who is also 4, did something like that I would be straight on the phone or calling round to apologise and to check that the other child was ok. My own dd would be punished as at 4 yrs old they do know right from wrong.

Unfortunately not all parents have the same beliefs and morals and many believe that their child can do no wrong so will not see the need to apologise.

No advise on how to handle seeing the parent though, sorry.

Hope your dd is ok

[pixiepower04]

I'm with Jules, my first reaction is not repeatable on here and i'm still picking my jaw up from the floor

Apologising is all well and good but she cut Poppy, this is not a simple case of childish misbehaviour, what if the scissors landed somewhere else.

My kids are no angels and have hurt and been hurt but not to this degree and I would urge you to lodge an official complaint to the school but seriously have words with the mum.

If this child has started to act diffeently then there are probably deeper issues afoot which would need addressing from the pre-school head teacher to nip it in the bud before it escalates.

Gosh, i'm still gobsmacked. I hope Poppy is okay and I hope you get some closure at least

[Ware Bears]

Joanne, this is absolutely awful and I can see why you're so upset. I'm sorry but I'm not going to be any help ~ even though my children are much older they've never been physically hurt like this, they've been on the receiving end of the odd push or poke by another child at this age but to be deliberately cut with a pair with scissors at pre-school?? It is almost too horrific to contemplate.

Originally Posted by PoppyAnna

If the tables were turned ......................... I personally would be mortified if my child did such a thing.

This is because you're a decent person. Unfortunately not everyone is.

I'm sorry, I really don't know what to say. I gather you're satisfied with the way the pre-school has handled it?

to you and Poppy, bless her little cotton socks.

[joolz1910]

It's hard when you see your child hurt, but we should resist labelling a 4 year old child a 'bully' when she has done something out of character. It seems that you are more angry with the mother of the child and I don't blame you.

My daughter was bitten really badly by another child and the mother never acknowledged it - that's how some parents are. I asked the pre-school staff to keep a watchful eye on the little boy and to keep them apart as much as possible. Perhaps that is something you could ask the pre-school to do.

It might be worth approaching the child's mother as the chances are that the pre-school wouldn't have told her who her child had attacked. She's unlikely to mention it on facebook as it's not something you would want made public. Perhaps if you speak to her, she will be mortified and apologise. If she doesn't apologise, then perhaps you should steer clear of her.


I hope Poppy is ok.

[wilma-bride]

Firstly, I am not in any way defending anyone here but I do have to say that most nurseries/preschools have a policy that they cannot tell the parents who the other child/children involved in any incident are - you say that early on. It may be the case that this woman's child has not told her who it was she injured.

I think there are two issues here - firstly, the issue that another child hurt your daughter. You have absolutely every right to be angry/upset and any parent would be but I think that it's wrong of you to assume this woman knows that it was Poppy who her child hurt. If you feel able to, I would speak to her and explain that you were surprised that she didn't get in touch afterwards as you would have had the situation been reversed.

When Daniel was at nursery, he hit another child in the face with a book one day (he was about 9 months old at the time). Although they didn't tell me who it was, it was fairly obvious as she had a black eye It just so happened that I worked with the girl's Dad and I couldn't help but apologise to him as I felt bad that my son had injured his daughter, albeit that it was most likely an accident.

If I honestly believed that Daniel had hurt somebody deliberately, I would be extremely disappointed with his behaviour and would definitely punish him but I would probably not plaster it all over facebook or the internet. I think all I'm saying is that you shouldn't assume this girl has not been punished just because her Mother hasn't posted it on the web.

[natalielongstaff]

I too would be absoloutly mortified if my child had done that ! and i would apologise straight away

However as a parent of older kids i would advise you to be very careful how you handle the situation..Kids actually forget this kind of incident VERY quickly and you will bear a grudge for a lot longer than poor poppy. If you fall out with the mum and poppy is still friendly with the child it will be very uncomfortable

i think you have done a great job explaining to poppy why you feel how you do and thats where your responsibility ends, if the mum mentions it on wednesday then you should hope for an apolgy and draw a line under the incident.

And as a childminder who has moaned on FB tonight about her own kids i can in a small way sympathise with the other woman....the job is NOT as bloomin easy as most people think it is and it can be very hard to juggle the needs of your own child against another who has paid for the privilage of being in your house and yes at the end of the day when patience is wearing thin you cant just shut the door and clock off from the job because you have carry on...i have effectivly worked from 7.15am- 8.15pm today if you consider that im working with children ( regardless of who's they are) and yes i know that as a parent that IS my job and i did choose to become a minder

Sorry for the long reply Joanne but basically ignore the last paragraph as i feel better for just writing it down

[PoppyAnna]

Originally Posted by Pinky166

Ohhh Joanne, I have no advice as I don't know how I would react but I just want to give you a big hug. I can just imagine how upset you are.

I hope some other mums will be along soon to give you some advice.

Thanks Claire.

Originally Posted by bronny

Aw bless her. Its so hard when things like that happen. My son has often fallen out with my friends' children and it is a difficult situation but at ALL times either myself or my friends have spoken to the child at fault and ensured that the children have apologised to each other. I don't blame you for feeling angry, I certainly would be most upset at the mother for not approaching you to apologise (or to make her child apologise). On the good side it seems that the pre-school staff are brilliant, my son had terrible problems with bullying throughout primary school and I must admit I had a heated exchange with the mother of the ring leader in the playground after one particularly nasty attack - needless to say the school was severely lacking in either support or quashing the problem!

The pre-school have dealt with it as they should, and I have no complaints. To be honest, my children have been pretty low maintenance to them and the leader actually said to me that it always happens to the nice ones and in the past she has seen children turn into victums after something likes this happens and she hates to see it.

Originally Posted by saratogagirl

I hope some mums will be along soon to give you some advice, I am not the right person for it, I am so shocked and my initial reaction is not repeatable on here, I hate a bully, I am mortified that she cut Poppy, hopefully some sensible people will come along soon - big hugs to you and little Poppy.

She's fine, cheers Jules

Originally Posted by scottish mum

Personally if my dd, who is also 4, did something like that I would be straight on the phone or calling round to apologise and to check that the other child was ok. My own dd would be punished as at 4 yrs old they do know right from wrong.

Unfortunately not all parents have the same beliefs and morals and many believe that their child can do no wrong so will not see the need to apologise.

No advise on how to handle seeing the parent though, sorry.

Hope your dd is ok

Thank you.

Originally Posted by pixiepower04

I'm with Jules, my first reaction is not repeatable on here and i'm still picking my jaw up from the floor

Apologising is all well and good but she cut Poppy, this is not a simple case of childish misbehaviour, what if the scissors landed somewhere else.

My kids are no angels and have hurt and been hurt but not to this degree and I would urge you to lodge an official complaint to the school but seriously have words with the mum.

If this child has started to act diffeently then there are probably deeper issues afoot which would need addressing from the pre-school head teacher to nip it in the bud before it escalates.

Gosh, i'm still gobsmacked. I hope Poppy is okay and I hope you get some closure at least

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Ware Bears

Joanne, this is absolutely awful and I can see why you're so upset. I'm sorry but I'm not going to be any help ~ even though my children are much older they've never been physically hurt like this, they've been on the receiving end of the odd push or poke by another child at this age but to be deliberately cut with a pair with scissors at pre-school?? It is almost too horrific to contemplate.

This is because you're a decent person. Unfortunately not everyone is.

I'm sorry, I really don't know what to say. I gather you're satisfied with the way the pre-school has handled it?

to you and Poppy, bless her little cotton socks.

Thanks Elaine.

Originally Posted by joolz1910

It's hard when you see your child hurt, but we should resist labelling a 4 year old child a 'bully' when she has done something out of character. It seems that you are more angry with the mother of the child and I don't blame you.

My daughter was bitten really badly by another child and the mother never acknowledged it - that's how some parents are. I asked the pre-school staff to keep a watchful eye on the little boy and to keep them apart as much as possible. Perhaps that is something you could ask the pre-school to do.

It might be worth approaching the child's mother as the chances are that the pre-school wouldn't have told her who her child had attacked. She's unlikely to mention it on facebook as it's not something you would want made public. Perhaps if you speak to her, she will be mortified and apologise. If she doesn't apologise, then perhaps you should steer clear of her.


I hope Poppy is ok.

There is no way that the child is a bully, it is out of character and my point in all of this is that there could be problems coming that Mum should really be aknowleding and dealing with, and I believe part of that is making the child apologise.
I am aware that the rules are that they would not tell the Mum which child she did it to, but within five minutes you would obtain that information from your child, in order to offer that apology.
I managed to get a name from my three year old within two minutes. I asked for the reason you mention above, I wanted to be aware of who to advise my child to steer clear of.

Originally Posted by wilma-bride

Firstly, I am not in any way defending anyone here but I do have to say that most nurseries/preschools have a policy that they cannot tell the parents who the other child/children involved in any incident are - you say that early on. It may be the case that this woman's child has not told her who it was she injured.

I think there are two issues here - firstly, the issue that another child hurt your daughter. You have absolutely every right to be angry/upset and any parent would be but I think that it's wrong of you to assume this woman knows that it was Poppy who her child hurt. If you feel able to, I would speak to her and explain that you were surprised that she didn't get in touch afterwards as you would have had the situation been reversed.

When Daniel was at nursery, he hit another child in the face with a book one day (he was about 9 months old at the time). Although they didn't tell me who it was, it was fairly obvious as she had a black eye It just so happened that I worked with the girl's Dad and I couldn't help but apologise to him as I felt bad that my son had injured his daughter, albeit that it was most likely an accident.

If I honestly believed that Daniel had hurt somebody deliberately, I would be extremely disappointed with his behaviour and would definitely punish him but I would probably not plaster it all over facebook or the internet. I think all I'm saying is that you shouldn't assume this girl has not been punished just because her Mother hasn't posted it on the web.

I agree Joh, and I am probably reading too much into her attitude to her wonderful afternoon as mine was total pants, but I can't help but feel that she has completely failed to even hint at an aknowledgment of her childs behaviour, this is a women that updates her FB with her every waking movement and mood, if it weren't for this I wouldn't feel like I do.

Also, pleading ignorance is not an excuse in this scenario, as I said above, I had the name out of Poppy within two minutes. These girls are quite close, her DD would only go to preschool on the same days that Poppy went as she wouldn't settle otherwise. There's no way she wouldn't tell her Mum who she did it to.

Poppy showed the cut to her Grandma this evening and told her that her friend thought she was a piece of paper and went snip snip snip - that broke my heart

[PoppyAnna]

Originally Posted by natalielongstaff

I too would be absoloutly mortified if my child had done that ! and i would apologise straight away

However as a parent of older kids i would advise you to be very careful how you handle the situation..Kids actually forget this kind of incident VERY quickly and you will bear a grudge for a lot longer than poor poppy. If you fall out with the mum and poppy is still friendly with the child it will be very uncomfortable

i think you have done a great job explaining to poppy why you feel how you do and thats where your responsibility ends, if the mum mentions it on wednesday then you should hope for an apolgy and draw a line under the incident.

And as a childminder who has moaned on FB tonight about her own kids i can in a small way sympathise with the other woman....the job is NOT as bloomin easy as most people think it is and it can be very hard to juggle the needs of your own child against another who has paid for the privilage of being in your house and yes at the end of the day when patience is wearing thin you cant just shut the door and clock off from the job because you have carry on...i have effectivly worked from 7.15am- 8.15pm today if you consider that im working with children ( regardless of who's they are) and yes i know that as a parent that IS my job and i did choose to become a minder

Sorry for the long reply Joanne but basically ignore the last paragraph as i feel better for just writing it down

Goodness, we ALL moan about our children. Believe me, I am the most overexposed parent that I know, I haven't had a night away from my children in the six years I've had them (okay, that makes them sound like pets) I just think her recent career choice is wrong and to go from somebody that calls her own and minded children all sorts, all of a sudden they are cherubs and angels all in one afternoon. She admits her DH pushed her into being a childminder for the money as she was at home anyway but she didnt want to do it.
Not all childminders are the same, I know it isn't an easy job, I wouldn't do it.

I don't want to fall out with anybody and I hate confrontation. I won't bear a grudge but in all honesty it will taint our relationship if she doesn't apologise, as I feel there will be an underlying atmosphere.

[Head_in_the_clouds]

I'm really sorry this happened to your little girl.

When I was at playschool, I walked in one morning and this girl who was a bit behavioural marched right up to me as I was sitting down and thumped me in my eye with a metal cookie cutter. . She was trying to see if she could cut my eye out. My mum was actually there at the time as she had literally just dropped me off and was speaking to the playschool leader. It was so weird because I just remember the world literally coming to a standstill as everyone realised what she had done and saw all this blood, everyody's jaws just dropped. All the adults were gobsmacked as I had never said a word to this girl - she just clonked me on the eye with this cookie cutter - it was like "whoah, where did THAT come from!". Needless to say I SCREAMED the nursery school down! My mum just comforted me and didn't say anything to the little girl and I think the playschool leader told her off but there was no big deal made about it. My mum and her mum knew each other, still do actually but my mum never said anything. I'm shocked about that because my mum was crazy over protective of me as a little girl but I think it was because she knew I would have to go to school with her in a couple of years and that she would be waiting at the school gates with her mum for years on end! She just left it for the leaders to sort out. Her mum is a nurse at the hospital and I saw her a couple of years ago and she said I think you went to school with my daughter and I said "yeah she tried to blind me with a cookie cutter when I was three and I had a black eye for six weeks". She just said, "that sounds like my Becky" . So twenty years and i'm still waiting for that apology!

I think you've explained it really well to your little girl and the fact that she has said her friend thought it was a piece of paper is really sweet and also a good way for her to look at it and come to terms with it in a way. I was a bit similar, because I was the girliest girl ever in frilly dresses with ringlets and bows it looked really weird that I had this black eye and so people kept asking me did I hurt myself or fall over or something and I would say, "No, a girl at playschool wanted to see if the cookie cutter was working so she tried to cut my eye out." Talk about a conversation stopper!

[natalielongstaff]

Originally Posted by PoppyAnna

.

I don't want to fall out with anybody and I hate confrontation. I won't bear a grudge but in all honesty it will taint our relationship if she doesn't apologise, as I feel there will be an underlying atmosphere.

i do hope you get an apology hun, you both deserve it x

[mandymouse]

Oh Joanne, what an awful thing to happen to Poppy. I can totally understand that you feel more upset with her mother than the actual child who did this. If it had been me, I would've been straight round to apologise (if I knew who it was)

Originally Posted by natalielongstaff

i do hope you get an apology hun, you both deserve it x

I too hope that you get an apology, and very soon, so you can both move on from this horrible incident

Hugs to you both hun