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Old 07-06-2009, 09:57 PM   #136
rie'smom
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I was not insinuating I was stating how I feel ever time I visit, I feel spoiled that I am lucky enough to be there. As for problems i think anywhere you go you find problems even the most expensive resorts have problems. I had a similar problem with my ticket and after a few minutes of trying to figure it out I was given a new ticket, I am sorry you met with rudeness but when I see you scaring people out of going to the most wonderful place on earth I have to say something. You have succeeded in stopping LnadchildWorldAdult from going and before you chase anyone else away I say find someplace better to go to and leave the Magic & Wonder & Joy to those of us who still feel blessed to be able to visit.
No one has stopped anyone from going to WDW. That is a decision that people make for themselves. I will continue to go and I will continue to discuss both the good and the bad that I see at WDW. If no one ever lets Disney management know about a problem, how it will it get fixed? No one here has said that WDW is the worst vacation place in the universe. People have said that it is not what it once was and that it needs some improving.

If your kids misbehave, do you call them on it or do you let them get away with it? Does trying to correct your kids mean that you hate them and wish you never had them? No, it means that you want them to do better. That is what those who have complaints want for Disney.
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:39 PM   #137
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Lost its magic

I agree with the post of Disney going generic. I also have 5 kids and they always are well behaved when we are at Disney and they also can tell how bad Disney has become. WE have been the past three years and have had a great time while staying at POP,but this year we tried CSR and had a terrible time. I am not saying all CM have gone sour but a lot of them sure have. I hate like hell to spend my hard earned money at Disney with this bad economy and get treated like I am at Six flags or something like that. Why in the world do you shut down major rides in the heat of your tourist season? I am not a rocket scientist but would it not of been better to do it in the off season? I hope Disney comes back, but if it continues to go the way it is why would you want to spend all that money when you could go to your local county fair and get treated the same. I am not trying to talk anyone out of going but please understand it is not like it was a few years ago. Disney needs to get back to what it did best and that was treating each of us to the best vacation you could ever dream of.
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Old 07-07-2009, 10:16 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Kickapoo Joie Juice View Post

I think Disney's next theme should be You're Not Special, So Behave Yourself And We'll All Have A Good Time.
That is great!

Back to the topic at hand. I think I wear the rose colored classes at WDW because I have never had a big disappointment there. I think I am just too excited to notice a lot of the upkeep issues.
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Old 07-07-2009, 11:24 AM   #139
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Disney is still "magical", if you look at the whole grand scheme of things (the big picture), but there are some things that I personally think need to be addressed. Such as:

Stop charging people (nickel and dimeing) for so called seasonal buffets costs.

Reduce the cost of the double stroller. It skyrocketed to 75 percent in one year. The cost was approximately $17 last year and now it is $31.00! RIP OFF!

Paint the darn green little bus like stations within Magic Kingdom. It's been rusting for years now.

Update the Star Wars ride. It's very lame and over 20 years old.

Update or replace the Temple of Doom show.

Have better maid service in the hotels. The Polly is one the comes to mind. For $350.00 a night I can stay at a 5 star hotel (Ritz Carlton) that's clean as a pin.

Stop raising ticket prices.

Extend the monorail or add a small train or people mover. The Wilderness Lodge comes to mind with this. The WL is so close to the MK you think they would expand the monorail to this hotel.

Add more rides at Hollywood Studios.

I'll think of more.

Lastly, don't get me wrong, I LOVE Disney but I think they have some issues that really need to be corrected in my humble opinion.

Thanks!
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Old 07-07-2009, 11:56 AM   #140
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I really do think a lot comes down to perspective, expectations and personal responsibility.

Perspective:

We travel to WDW because we know how well our special needs will be catered to. There is NOWHERE ELSE that I've ever found that can accomodate our food allergies the was WDW does. When I compare WDW restaurants to restaurants anywhere else, I'm comparing the fact that my daughter who can't have wheat or dairy can eat breaded chicken fingers and mac & cheese every day if she wants. On top of that, the chefs not only bend over backwards for us, but they actually make us feel as though they enjoy doing so. The pixie dust is never ending.

In addition, with my daughter's issues associated with her autism, WDW is the only amuzement park that we can go to because of the accomodations that they make for her special needs. Again, the pixie dust is never ending.

From our perspective, there is NOWHERE else where we can have such a stress free vacation. I know this isn't everybody's perspective, but it's ours which definitely colours our glasses a little rosey.

Expectations:

People tend to expect the same level of service as they've previously experienced. When that doesn't happen, it's hard to handle and is a huge let-down. I've seen my own DH get upset with things that didn't live up to previous experiences. I try to explain that what he's comparing to is often a case of us having gotten service that was way above what is normal (even more pixie dust) but the expectation is still very hard to let go of. As many people have observed though, quality things like mousekeeping and park cleaning had declined so it's totally understandable that if previous expectations aren't being met that it will simply seem wrong. I can't say I disagree. Disney is the company that set their own bar very high and now they're trying to lower it. Most people will complain when their prices are going up yet service is going down. Disney set these expectations and should live up to them.

Then there's the whole issue of entitlement. Our society as a whole seems to have developed a real sense of entitlement. Far too many people really do seem to expect everybody around them to bend over and kiss their butts. When it doesn't happen, they're rude about it. I'm not just talking about at WDW. I'm talking about in life in general though it has trickled into WDW.

Personal Responsibility:

It drives me nuts when people complain about something but didn't do anything to try to rectify the situation or if they complained they were mean, nasty or rude and then didn't understand why people didn't try harder to help them. I think the concept of more flies with honey than with vinegar is lost on these people. Yes it's frustrating when things go wrong (and things do tend to go wrong at some point). It's what we do about it that matters. It is VERY unfortunate though that we're hearing of more and more cases of CMs speaking rudely to guests which seems shocking to me. Then again, in the posts where I read about rude CMs it often (not always obviously) seems as though the person's description of evens suggests that the guest was pretty rude right off the bat without even giving CMs a chance to correct problems. Again, this isn't always the case which shocks me every time, but it seems as though many times that's how the situation comes across.

People need to know what they're paying for and pay for what they want. Is it Disney's fault if somebody paid for a standard room but wanted club level and didn't get upgraded for free? Is it Disney's fault that a guest only likes inside hallways but booked at a resort where the rooms exit to the outside? If they're on the DIS then they have access to all this information. If they pay for something they don't get though, Disney should take responsibility and try to make it up to the guest. Responsibility goes both ways.
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:05 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepe of ohio View Post
I've read most of the posts but to me, the magic is there, the luster has dimmed by the internet. All these Disney forums on every little thing and direction has taken the thrill of the hunt out of a stay. Everyone knows all the tricks, little mysteries and how to get the most and than some out of a stay. Back before computers, you did a stay and discovered the hidden magic on your own, accepted the little extras CM's gave out, now, everyone knows what everyone got and they demand the same, takes the magic right out. For example, towel animals, given randomly by a mousekeeper that knew how to make them to shed alittle of her talents and own personal magic, spread across the internet boards and everyone and their brother demands them. Hidden mickeys, you discovered them on your own, now you can print out pages with all their locations, some hunt. This goes on and on across all the boards, best viewing, how to get this for free, comped for this and that, how to do it cheap, how to beat the system, guests don't have to discover anything on their own anymore, where's the magic, ask and others will tell you where to find it.

The magic is there and is still alive for us. I don't follow every Disney internet space, subscribe to any tour plan or follow any schedule or guide book on a Disney vacation. We discover most at Disney by just going out and seeing and trying the little things, asking a CM what's new or something to do. Printing out pages of internet forum tricks, schedules, tips and what not is killing the adventure of discovering for yourself. Now, everyone knows, wants, asks and demands and if they don't get it, they come home mad, and complain on these forums and want to file complaints. No, I believe we created our own monster with the Internet and publicizing all we know, want or got, just makes the next person want the same and more. I remember back in the 70's, you booked a room, that's it. No special building, special floor, exotic view, this many steps from the elevator.........Times have changed but for us old timers, most not in a good way but our stays are very simple with no wishes, demands or wants and we do see the magic, even after 42 trips and 30 some years, we just keep it simple.
WELL SAID. I think we're old-timers too - started in 1986. The overabundance of information has changed Disney World for me, too. People's expectations are so OFF of reality that I am sometimes astounded.

I believe it all comes down to respect. As a society, we no longer respect people holding "menial" jobs as honest or hard-working. To most of society now, the CM cleaning up a table at a restaurant, or housekeeping in my hotel room are uneducated dregs of society who don't deserve common respect. HOW WRONG IS THAT?

We believe, and have taught our children, that everyone deserves respect. We show that by saying good morning and hello to those workers who are carrying the trash bags, or toting a vacuum cleaner, or sweeping up. We make eye contact and say good morning. How many people do that - or do the majority treat those folks as faceless nameless worker bees? How do you think that makes them feel every day? They lose motivation at their job because of the jerks they are doing it for.

I'm not trying to canonize us - we're not different from a lot of people I'm sure. But the sense of entitlement at Disney by the guests certainly has to rub off on the cast members. That's why you may get a rude comment back to an innocent question, because hundreds of entitled jerks have asked the same question.

Here's an example of making your own magic. There's a women who works in Main St. Confectionary who is deaf. She is very sweet and has been there for a long time. We ordered a few items from her, having to speak a little slower so she could lip read. I'm sure there are many folks who get very impatient and rude over that. Anyway, we got our purchase and while she was ringing it up, I asked my daugher if she knew how to sign "thank you." She did, so we both signed it when we got our bag. She smiled back and said "you're welcome." Next time we went in to buy our Mickey Head Rice Krispy, she remembered us and gave us a few "extras" in our bag. I think we all felt good after that. She also went out of her way to say hello every time we passed through (which was often - gotta have those Mickey Heads. ) We felt like we had made a friend.
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:11 PM   #142
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I have to post again. There are things that need improvement. I can say that and honestly assure you that I have never even been close to being a princess. I left the disboard for a while because I was addicted to Dis and had some unbearable disappointments.

I've tried to always be positive but sometimes you have to see things as they have become.

As I post replies in other threads I can think of Disney magic like we picture our best days of childhood and I hope I encourage others instead of being a wet blanket. At the same time I am gratified that others are speaking up so that the bean counters will stop their destruction.

There was a time that a single mom on minimum wage could go to DW for a day or two and it would be worth the sacrifice. You just can't say that anymore. Prices are at gouge level, and for only 2 days you have a good chance of having some rotten experiences. Sorry you folks who are like I used to be but it is true.
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:13 PM   #143
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NO, not at all! I just got back from a very magical trip. YUP we had moments that were not so magical that were at the fault of Disney... but that was a moment among thousands.

I think it depends on how jaded you let yourself be, or how you let this or that affect you.

Previous to our trip there were a LOT of debbie downers on WDW and even that did not affect me but only because I would not let it. WDW and its magic mean something different to each person, I think that makes a big difference.
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:21 PM   #144
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We were in WDW a few weeks ago, and yes, I felt like Disney lost its luster a little bit.

I agree that it seemed to be the patrons.

There was trash and gum stuck along the queues in Splash Mountain and Thunder Mountain railroad. Some of the litterers were creative, cramming empty soda cups under the edge of walkways, etc. You may argue that the CMs should be more on-top of cleaning up after these pigs, but you would probably need to dedicate one cleaner to each line, all day, just to keep up with it.

On Maelstrom and the Pirates of Carribean rides, both had different families taking flash photos in their boats the whole time. No regard for the rest of us in the boat.

And toilets in MK were disgusting, but who leaves the trash there? Can't people throw toilet paper actually *into* the toilet, or clean up their own pee when it lands on the seat? I just don't get this behavior, leaving a disgusting damage path for an overworked, minimum-waged CM to clean up. It's so disrespectful.

We *did* find the Disney magic when we got to the parks early and everything was still "fresh". We found magic at the parade and in the times we just wandered, enjoying the countries in Epcot or the landscaping at AK.
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:39 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Scott MC View Post
As someone earlier said, I also think that we need to look at the population that is visiting WDW lately. The children of the baby boomers are the young parents of today, and frequently, I see a complete lack of control on their part when it comes to their children. Some of the parenting skills I've seen put into practice at WDW make my skin crawl. They don't know how to control their kids, so they don't. It's as simple as that. Kids run amok in hotel lobbies, and Lord help you if they run into you. It will be considered your fault. And don't dare try to tell them to watch where they're going, unless you are ready to get a tongue-lashing from an incompetent parent who's ready to blame everyone before looking at their own children as potentially being the problem. I've seen children drop trash in their parents' line of vision and nothing is said. A previous poster mentioned a child being laughed at for breaking the gingerbread house at the GF. Parents will lie, cheat, beg, steal and run over anyone in their way to get their child onto the rides they want and into a picture with Cinderella. A running joke amongst my friends involves overhearing a mom on the monorail last year reassuring her wailing child, "You'll be FIRST into the Magic Kingdom today." Whatever happened to, "We're paying good money, but so are the rest of these people, and we're going to have to wait our turn like everyone else." As an educator (and a young one at that), I can tell you with absolute certainty that when not given parameters, children WILL do what they want and will come to believe that their negative behavior is what is necessary to get what they want in this world.
Now, imagine these children coming to WDW a few years later on their own for Spring Break, or better yet, behind the check-in desk at your resort, or running Splash Mountain.
I'm not saying that Disney is faultless, and surely the tough times have likely forced Disney to make some cutbacks in some places, but before the blame is completely put on the Mouse, think about what the Mouse is forced to deal with in terms of its guests.

::I'll get off of my soapbox now::
I work at a community college and believe me when I say that the students here are pretty much the same as a child when it comes to picking up after themselves and demanding. And after dealing with their parents, I can truthfully say that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. They can do things in the restrooms that no one should have to clean up. The poor custodians...But the parents are to blame. They have not been taught any better.
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:49 PM   #146
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Okay, I did three years of arguing JUST LIKE THIS on a Star Wars board (of all places), so I'm just gonna post and bolt. I frankly have seen enough of "old guard/new guard", "we're true appreciators/no, you're not", "it's your decision to hate/no, it's patently obvious" arguments to last me a lifetime. People get defensive, they get hurt, they overreact. The truth always lies in the middle anyway.

Count me, ostensibly, into the losing magic camp.

I'm nearing forty but entirely still a kid, I promise. I've been to Disney World coming on eleven times (this last time kinda against my will), four times in the 70s, four times in the eighties, soon to be three times in the 2000s.

When I went back to Disney again recently I was surprised that it still had some magic left. It was really crowded, but I had a fairly exciting, fairly rewarding stay of three days (thence onto the cruise, which I didn't much cotton to, but no matter) and I was pleasantly surprised that some of the old stand-bys and old schoom charm were still around and mostly untouched. I was enchanted enough to go again exactly one year later.

Second stay, last Feb, was WAAAAYYY too crowded and when I got to wander around a bit more, peek into nooks and corners, I could see that too much of the "atmosphere" was WAAAAAYYY too generic and consumerish. Gelded into corporate hegemony.

I dug on the dinners and the shows and enjoyed the rides I managed to do, and I still got goosebumps on the monorail, but I positively shuddered when it came time to dealing with the parks themselves. I got to hate the shops at the end of every ride. Not cause they were shops but because they were the same shop over and over. Tha landscape of the parks had morphed from "magic everywhere" to "islands of magic inside corporate banality". Meals were good, for the most part, but meal times were always a source of stress and doubt. Oddly enough, money was never much of an issue. I was, and always will be, prepared to shell out for a proper Disney experience.

This next, last trip will be my final Disney vacation for the forseeable future. I'm dreading it a little because I simply cannot stomach hitting that wall of people everywhere again. Also because, while I can anticipate the siren-lure of the Haunted Mansion after dark and strolling the World Showcase with love in my heart, I can also anticipate the boorish, decidedly repetitive and charmless everywhere-elses that now litter the place.

Keep in mind, I don't blame anybody for this. I think it's a testament to Disney magic that Disney World managed to strive on with as much dignity as it did through our modern era. And if you'd ask me to rate Disney's decline as opposed to some very major institutions, I'd say its ahead of the curve.

For me, Main Street says it all. As a kid I was in love with Main Street. I am still in love with Main Street. But Main Street doesn't have a theatre anymore. It doesn't have an arcade. It is, in short, not Main Street so much as it is the Ghost Of Main Street. That would be okay (after all, that's still some potent hoojoo we're talking about) except you can't see Main Street past all the people. You need a chainsaw to get into the bakery. The point of Main Street--wandering it, STROLLING it, taking it in--is defeated by the reality of Main Street. And once its lush and luring artifice went deeper than its storefronts but no more. That's good enough--good enough for a visit now and then.

By my way of accounting (and this is simply MY way of accounting, I'll admit), Disney has, by its actions, altered "now and then" from "can't wait to go next year or the year after", to maybe "In another five years, if at all".
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:49 PM   #147
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And another thing.. I don't think I will ever lose the magic I feel when I arrive in Orlando. I am worse than a 6 year old. I usually cry when I leave and I don't think a grouchy old(or young) underpaid CM is ever going to steal that.
Here's a thought: if everyone would just make one tiny effort to pick up an empty cup or can, then maybe we could all make a difference. Children often learn from our actions. JMHO
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:53 PM   #148
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And another thing.. I don't think I will ever lose the magic I feel when I arrive in Orlando. I am worse than a 6 year old. I usually cry when I leave and I don't think a grouchy old(or young) underpaid CM is ever going to steal that.
Here's a thought: if everyone would just make one tiny effort to pick up an empty cup or can, then maybe we could all make a difference. Children often learn from our actions. JMHO
Well said!
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:07 PM   #149
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This thread has me seriously rethinking our plans. . . .
Anyone with *other* suggestions, for place to take my family of 5 where we can still experience "magic" but get value for what it costs to go ... :
We recently returned from a less than magical trip, but that was mostly because of the brutal heat (near record-breaking in June) and crowds (including lots of large families and other groups who would block doors and walkways).

One improvement I noticed from our trips in 2005-06 was that the condition of the restrooms is much improved. We only encountered CMs who were friendly and cheerful.

If you can plan your trip for better weather (not summer), and trying to avoid crowded times (early June used to be rather less crowded -- it may be hard to find a "low" crowd time anymore, with people coming in droves from all over the world), you can still have a wonderful time. A lot is in your attitude and not letting a few little annoyances get to you. We still had quite a bit of fun, altho it's not as easy as it used to be. We went first thing in the morning (which did help), and still were only able to do one "thing" (attraction, character, etc.) per hour and a half (on average) -- sometimes a little less than an hour, sometimes over two hours (and that's with using the fast pass system).

Just do a lot of research, learn from the complaints and advice that is all over the place, and you can certainly have a wonderful family vacation. And, there is indeed, no other place like it, especially for younger kids and us elders (now teens might prefer some other places like US/IOA, Busch Gardens, etc.).
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:15 PM   #150
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Not sure if it's lost the magic but it's definitely on a downward slide.

I'm a life long lover and visitor. My first visit was when it first opened, I was only a kid but I've been going since 1990 as an adult and it's definitely noticeable to me. I won't get into details because I find on these boards if you don't say every thing is absolutely "magical" you tend to get labeled as a complainer.

This August will be my last visit for a few years. For me unfortunately Disney has just reached the point where for I can no longer justify the large amounts of dollars for mediocre product. We'll be there for 10 days and only 3 adrs simply because I refuse to pay over 100 bucks for mediocre food. I have my dvc or no way would I pay rack rates for the substandard cm service at a deluxe and the old argument "you pay for location is starting to ring hollow"

We'll return in 2012 hopefully the economy and disney will have rebounded.
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