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Old 11-09-2009, 08:15 PM   #256
asianway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tampa Mousekeeter View Post
can I ask why anyone would think a pin sold for under $2.00 would be anything but a scrapper?....just a question....but if Disney is selling pins in the $10 range each and even the "Starter sets" are approx $5 each how is anyone really getting pins that much cheaper?????....they are selling them for $1.79 plus making a profit and they are not scrappers????? ( that is except for our friend nannub who brings his scrappers to the park to trade for real pins and then sells them in huge lots).....
This is the crux of the matter that is lost through the hundreds of posts. No one has some magic source of "cheap traders" that they can continue to conjure up. The cheapest you can get pins legitimately is around $1.25-1.50 through liquidation. Anyone selling them for less is losing money. This is for true, legit pins.

Many other sellers have legit pins for less. How? Exactly as described above, buying thousands of scrappers and laundering them on CM lanyards. I see it every weekend, many different people. I have no idea of their ebay names, but this is how it happens. And buying from these "green" sellers only helps to perpetuate the junk you will find on lanyards when you visit.

Yes, some people do sell their collections and just want to take any amount to get rid of them, but that is the minority. Dizpins is probably the best source of people legitimately getting rid of traders cheaply, anyone doing it on ebay, is a red flag.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:39 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disney On A Dime! View Post
Just a thought, but how do we report sellers that either refund money for scrappers or send you the genuine pin in return for a scrapper? I am in the process of dealing with the latter...I purchased from a "green" seller and received three genuine pins and two scrappers. They were very willing to work with me and are sending replacements for the two scrappers (hopefully genuine pins!) I will keep you posted...any thoughts?
You just report that in the thread thru subsuquent posts. Much like I did with my MikeandNancy debacle. I simply came back and reposted as things happened, Malouf did the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asianway View Post
This is the crux of the matter that is lost through the hundreds of posts. No one has some magic source of "cheap traders" that they can continue to conjure up. The cheapest you can get pins legitimately is around $1.25-1.50 through liquidation. Anyone selling them for less is losing money. This is for true, legit pins.

Many other sellers have legit pins for less. How? Exactly as described above, buying thousands of scrappers and laundering them on CM lanyards. I see it every weekend, many different people. I have no idea of their ebay names, but this is how it happens. And buying from these "green" sellers only helps to perpetuate the junk you will find on lanyards when you visit.

Yes, some people do sell their collections and just want to take any amount to get rid of them, but that is the minority. Dizpins is probably the best source of people legitimately getting rid of traders cheaply, anyone doing it on ebay, is a red flag.
I don't agree with this. Not EVERYone selling on eBay is selling scrappers. I've got some nice pins that I traded for, not scrappers at all and I will be listing them on eBay. Yes, my prices will be higher because I know my pins are NOT scrappers (as much as any educated trader can know at least) and I know my pins have some value. Why sell on eBay? Why not? Where else can I list them and have so many people see them? Also, I know of many sellers who I bought great pins from in the past 2 years who are done selling, why? Because they sold what they wanted to from their collections, they all sold for anywhere from $3 and up. Do I have scrappers in my collection? You bet I do, will I be selling those on eBay, NO, those will stay in my collection. The difference is sellers like me care about the hobby, sellers like nannub are in for the profit, sellers like shells7pak could care less, they too are in it for the profit.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:43 PM   #258
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Oh and for the record, I've got a lot of reallllllllllllllly nice pins I bought from eBay for pennies......a fraction of what they are worth. I have 2 Lefcort Tinks that I got for less then retail, only because I got lucky and the seller listed for less hoping she'd get more hits, she didn't and I won them very lowball. They are super nice pins and I got lucky like that a few times with different sellers.

I also received some pins today from koolstuff2005, it looks like a lot of half and half to be honest, some are obvious scrappers (Mickey heads not going off the edges, color issues, paint fill issues) but some are nice and compared to my purchased pins look the same. I would list them at least as a yellow. I did let them know that I suspect some are scrappers and I have not yet left feedback, I will wait and see if they reply. I am fine keeping the ones I feel are scrappers, the vinylmations I got for my own collection.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:46 PM   #259
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I don't agree with this. Not EVERYone selling on eBay is selling scrappers. I've got some nice pins that I traded for, not scrappers at all and I will be listing them on eBay. Yes, my prices will be higher [/QUOTE]

Reread my post. I didnt say everyone is, in fact, most people dont. My point is, which you agree, the prices will be higher for legit pins. Anyone selling trader pins for under $2 is either selling scrappers, or is laundering scrappers for legit traders. If having someone else do the dirty work makes the folks here sleep better, great, but lets not kid ourselves on what is actually happening.
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:48 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asianway View Post
Reread my post. I didnt say everyone is, in fact, most people dont. My point is, which you agree, the prices will be higher for legit pins. Anyone selling trader pins for under $2 is either selling scrappers, or is laundering scrappers for legit traders. If having someone else do the dirty work makes the folks here sleep better, great, but lets not kid ourselves on what is actually happening.
Reread what I highlighted. That's what I was addressing in my reply, you said "anyone doing it on eBay is a red flag", to that I disagree. Not just anyone raises red flags, the auctions themselves raise red flags, you have to be careful, you have to watch prices, you have to watch what pins they are selling over and over and over and over again. Sellers who have multiples of the same pins, that's a huge red flag for me.

And yes, I do tend to pay more for my traders, when I buy the pins for $1-2 I'm "testing" the seller so to speak. Of course that is likely to stop soon since we will not be renewing our APs next year. I will be using my trusted sellers to get any of the sets we want for the next 12 months.
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Old 11-10-2009, 08:15 PM   #261
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[/QUOTE]

Anyone selling trader pins for under $2 is either selling scrappers, or is laundering scrappers for legit traders. If having someone else do the dirty work makes the folks here sleep better, great, but lets not kid ourselves on what is actually happening.[/QUOTE]

Thank you....I thought I was the only one that sees this....hurry let's check Ebay this week...looks like all the legitimate sellers are selling their 100 pin lots for $1.67 per pin....gee they are giving them away...I wonder why????? Oh, how nice they are sending them to me in little plastic bags....they couldn't be getting them from China that way could they?????
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:26 PM   #262
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There simply are not roving bands of benevolent power sellers wanting to sell you cheap trader pins. I got a 1799 that was horribly listed for $2 once on ebay, the poorly listed pin with no minimum bid that flies under the radar is not at issue. It is that the people who list hundreds or thousands of trader pins, if legit, obtained them through dumping scrapper pins on cast lanyards.

This hobby has an ugly underbelly, which is quickly leading to its demise, the support of any of these sellers is just exacerbating the downward spiral.
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Old 11-11-2009, 08:59 AM   #263
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Anyone selling trader pins for under $2 is either selling scrappers, or is laundering scrappers for legit traders. If having someone else do the dirty work makes the folks here sleep better, great, but lets not kid ourselves on what is actually happening.[/QUOTE]

Thank you....I thought I was the only one that sees this....hurry let's check Ebay this week...looks like all the legitimate sellers are selling their 100 pin lots for $1.67 per pin....gee they are giving them away...I wonder why????? Oh, how nice they are sending them to me in little plastic bags....they couldn't be getting them from China that way could they????? [/QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by asianway View Post
There simply are not roving bands of benevolent power sellers wanting to sell you cheap trader pins. I got a 1799 that was horribly listed for $2 once on ebay, the poorly listed pin with no minimum bid that flies under the radar is not at issue. It is that the people who list hundreds or thousands of trader pins, if legit, obtained them through dumping scrapper pins on cast lanyards.

This hobby has an ugly underbelly, which is quickly leading to its demise, the support of any of these sellers is just exacerbating the downward spiral.
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Old 11-11-2009, 01:40 PM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tampa Mousekeeter View Post

Anyone selling trader pins for under $2 is either selling scrappers, or is laundering scrappers for legit traders. If having someone else do the dirty work makes the folks here sleep better, great, but lets not kid ourselves on what is actually happening.

Thank you....I thought I was the only one that sees this....hurry let's check Ebay this week...looks like all the legitimate sellers are selling their 100 pin lots for $1.67 per pin....gee they are giving them away...I wonder why????? Oh, how nice they are sending them to me in little plastic bags....they couldn't be getting them from China that way could they?????
This is the guideline most of us on this thread use......I'm not sure why you feel the need to post it again or to post it in such a way. Again, I only buy the "cheap" pins when I'm testing a seller to see what I get, so I can post it here. I usually win about 10 pins and they are pins we will keep no matter what. For my traders I'm buying from sellers who list for more, or who I've been buying from for years. Or I'm buying them from parks, yes we do that too.
And just an FYI, I do use the little plastic baggies to carry traders around and to store them, I will use the little plastic baggies when I start to sell off what we don't want to hold onto. Why? Because the little plastic baggies help protect the pins and they are convenient. I don't like my pins getting all scratched up so this helps to protect them. I do have a ton of little baggies left over from my days of not knowing any better and ordering the lot of 100 scrappers for $1.89 each, but now I just reuse them. I have also been known to ask my sellers to please package the pins in baggies if they have them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asianway View Post
There simply are not roving bands of benevolent power sellers wanting to sell you cheap trader pins. I got a 1799 that was horribly listed for $2 once on ebay, the poorly listed pin with no minimum bid that flies under the radar is not at issue. It is that the people who list hundreds or thousands of trader pins, if legit, obtained them through dumping scrapper pins on cast lanyards.

This hobby has an ugly underbelly, which is quickly leading to its demise, the support of any of these sellers is just exacerbating the downward spiral.
I'm not exactly sure what the highlighted sentence says, it's a bit confusing. And yes, it's the sellers who offer hundreds or thousands of the same pin for trade that knowledgeable buyers avoid, this thread is meant to help those who simply don't know about scrappers, not to discuss the underbelly of this hobby. It's meant to be helpful and educational to those who are aware that eBay sellers could be selling them scrappers.

Please, let's try to avoid the sarcasm and belittling tones, we are trying to help newbies to the hobby, not scare them away. They get enough of that from the professional traders at the parks.
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Old 11-11-2009, 02:18 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by pixiewings71 View Post

Please, let's try to avoid the sarcasm and belittling tones, we are trying to help newbies to the hobby, not scare them away. They get enough of that from the professional traders at the parks.
Pixie - I didn't see their posts as necessarily belittling but rather with an undertone of frustration.

I think all of us know if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and talks like a duck its a duck. But one thing I have personally run into with some "casual" traders who want to do it "for the kids" is while they will apply the duck theory to most things in everyday life they want to throw out the window that theory while buying pins from ebay/other questionable areas for the sake of saving money.

It's frustrating because I have warned personal friends against buying ebay pins so cheap but was "ignored". I really think I was ignored because they didn't want to hear it and/or spend the money to buy legitimate pins. Hence when these types of buyers go to the parks they are just contributing to a problem (which hopefully Disney will get fixed asap).

I'm all for kids experiencing things but I think some people take it to far and actually think their child is entitled to experience the pin trading (but not at a legitimate cost) and why can't their kid have just as much fun pin trading as xx child.
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Old 11-11-2009, 02:48 PM   #266
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Interesting discussion...I just wanted to add that I have thoroughly appreciated the attempt at those on this board to point out those that sell genuine Disney pins. I also appreciate the tips given here as to how to spot scrappers and such. I am very new at this...I have been able to pick up pins from ebay in order to complete collections...that were started from a Disney trip. Ebay has been very helpful in that aspect...I cannot as a consumer solve the scrapper pin issue. I can only be responsible for my collection and for what I might trade.

One point to mention...with only a little research...some ebay buying and scouting...it is very easy to find those sellers that sell scrappers. Disney could if they wanted to go after that aspect...I have even had sellers tell me not to buy from them because their pin did not meet the requirements that I inquired about...Can we say scrapper???

Another point to mention...with only a short amount of research and reading...one can easily figure out how to spot scrapper pins...why does Disney allow cast members to trade for scrappers? Not to say that they should be policing the pin trades and such...but that could totally straighten out this pin trading issue. Please don't get me wrong...I really do not want a child to be turned away from a pin trade because of a scrapper...but can't these scrapper trades be stopped at the adult level...especially those adults that give scrappers to get genuine?

Anyhow...this has been a great discussion...wonder if anyone is listening who could make a difference?
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:23 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by Disney On A Dime! View Post
Interesting discussion...I just wanted to add that I have thoroughly appreciated the attempt at those on this board to point out those that sell genuine Disney pins. I also appreciate the tips given here as to how to spot scrappers and such. I am very new at this...I have been able to pick up pins from ebay in order to complete collections...that were started from a Disney trip. Ebay has been very helpful in that aspect...I cannot as a consumer solve the scrapper pin issue. I can only be responsible for my collection and for what I might trade.

One point to mention...with only a little research...some ebay buying and scouting...it is very easy to find those sellers that sell scrappers. Disney could if they wanted to go after that aspect...I have even had sellers tell me not to buy from them because their pin did not meet the requirements that I inquired about...Can we say scrapper???

Another point to mention...with only a short amount of research and reading...one can easily figure out how to spot scrapper pins...why does Disney allow cast members to trade for scrappers? Not to say that they should be policing the pin trades and such...but that could totally straighten out this pin trading issue. Please don't get me wrong...I really do not want a child to be turned away from a pin trade because of a scrapper...but can't these scrapper trades be stopped at the adult level...especially those adults that give scrappers to get genuine?

Anyhow...this has been a great discussion...wonder if anyone is listening who could make a difference?
Great post - I think you definetly made some very valid points - especially ones that some of us collectors have been dealing with for awhile. Why doesn't Disney take a stand against these scrapper sellers? Why don't the CM's get trained on how to spot a scrapper and immediately remove, etc.?

It's honestly gotten to a point with my collection and to an extent with our daughters collection that we buy more to keep than to trade. I'm a DVC member and an avid Disney cruiser so I enjoy getting those harder to get pins to add to my collection. I know my husband has a keen eye and has been able to get many of reduced priced pins on Disney's website but those deals are far and few these days.
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Old 11-11-2009, 04:50 PM   #268
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It appears that the most recent posts (previous 2 pages) have not read this thread fully. Granted it is a VERY long thread, but all the points you have been trying to post here as "something new" has been addressed over and over in many ways on this thread.

The way it was posted by some, could be taken in a way that is offensive to those of us who have been a part of this thread, and many others previous to this one.

What some could describe as belittling, some could describe as frustration. I personally have been fighting this "pin epidemic" for more than 2 years. Just recently (this year) I have had others "jump on the bandwagon" and create awareness to this subject. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard people say "it's just for the kids" "it doesn't bother me" etc, etc, etc. These are the people we are trying to educate. These are the people we are trying to urge to do the right thing.

There ARE reputable pin sellers on ebay, although I wholeheartedly agree that MANY are scrapper sellers. To classify them all as unworthy or undesirable is simply unfair and untrue.

There are MANY MANY posts on this thread that indicate exactly what you are saying. But the way it is said can be interpreted as unintended. Every educated pin trader on this thread knows that a huge lot of pins for $1+ each are selling scrappers. It's the UNEDUCATED pin traders that are not aware. That is what this thread is for. It is also for those who are seeking to buy legitimate pins online. For those of us who have personal experiences to list them here to help EDUCATE others.

I can tell you that I consider myself an incredibly educated pin trader. I've been pin trading, literally since inception. In fact, when I bought my first pin, the CM's weren't exactly sure what the trading procedure was

I have seen the scrapper sellers in person, I have had personal contact with Meg Gage's office regarding this "epidemic" I was one of the VERY first ones to contact, and encourage others to contact, Disney Legal. I have seen first hand what these scrappers have done and continue to do, to the hobby I love. What I"m saying is, don't presume you know more or less than anyone else here. We're all here to STOP this horrible practice and EDUCATE those who might not know about these sellers. Let's do less finger pointing and assuming and more educating. Just my .02
Rant over
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Old 11-11-2009, 06:44 PM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anjelica View Post
Pixie - I didn't see their posts as necessarily belittling but rather with an undertone of frustration.

I think all of us know if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and talks like a duck its a duck. But one thing I have personally run into with some "casual" traders who want to do it "for the kids" is while they will apply the duck theory to most things in everyday life they want to throw out the window that theory while buying pins from ebay/other questionable areas for the sake of saving money.

It's frustrating because I have warned personal friends against buying ebay pins so cheap but was "ignored". I really think I was ignored because they didn't want to hear it and/or spend the money to buy legitimate pins. Hence when these types of buyers go to the parks they are just contributing to a problem (which hopefully Disney will get fixed asap).

I'm all for kids experiencing things but I think some people take it to far and actually think their child is entitled to experience the pin trading (but not at a legitimate cost) and why can't their kid have just as much fun pin trading as xx child.
I hear the frustration as well but I also interpret them with sarcasm and as a tad rude. As a very frequent poster to this thread and a person who has spent my own money on pins to try to help others I'm very frustrated by the tone of the past few posts. Yes, our thread is huge but please read all the pages before jumping to a conclusion about those of us who are posting on it. For the most part we are knowlegeable about scrappers and we are simply trying to help newbies. Honestly, if I was a newbie and I had popped over here on someone's suggestion I would be offended by those posts, hopefully others won't feel the same way I do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disney On A Dime! View Post
Interesting discussion...I just wanted to add that I have thoroughly appreciated the attempt at those on this board to point out those that sell genuine Disney pins. I also appreciate the tips given here as to how to spot scrappers and such. I am very new at this...I have been able to pick up pins from ebay in order to complete collections...that were started from a Disney trip. Ebay has been very helpful in that aspect...I cannot as a consumer solve the scrapper pin issue. I can only be responsible for my collection and for what I might trade.

One point to mention...with only a little research...some ebay buying and scouting...it is very easy to find those sellers that sell scrappers. Disney could if they wanted to go after that aspect...I have even had sellers tell me not to buy from them because their pin did not meet the requirements that I inquired about...Can we say scrapper???

Another point to mention...with only a short amount of research and reading...one can easily figure out how to spot scrapper pins...why does Disney allow cast members to trade for scrappers? Not to say that they should be policing the pin trades and such...but that could totally straighten out this pin trading issue. Please don't get me wrong...I really do not want a child to be turned away from a pin trade because of a scrapper...but can't these scrapper trades be stopped at the adult level...especially those adults that give scrappers to get genuine?

Anyhow...this has been a great discussion...wonder if anyone is listening who could make a difference?
All great points!! I hope someone else is out there listening/reading and I hope something can be done. I would love to be able to trade without worrying about scrappers. And yes, I agree that CM's should know more about pins and I also agree that adults should not be allowed to trade them for geniune pins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelionqueen View Post
It appears that the most recent posts (previous 2 pages) have not read this thread fully. Granted it is a VERY long thread, but all the points you have been trying to post here as "something new" has been addressed over and over in many ways on this thread.

The way it was posted by some, could be taken in a way that is offensive to those of us who have been a part of this thread, and many others previous to this one.

What some could describe as belittling, some could describe as frustration. I personally have been fighting this "pin epidemic" for more than 2 years. Just recently (this year) I have had others "jump on the bandwagon" and create awareness to this subject. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard people say "it's just for the kids" "it doesn't bother me" etc, etc, etc. These are the people we are trying to educate. These are the people we are trying to urge to do the right thing.

There ARE reputable pin sellers on ebay, although I wholeheartedly agree that MANY are scrapper sellers. To classify them all as unworthy or undesirable is simply unfair and untrue.

There are MANY MANY posts on this thread that indicate exactly what you are saying. But the way it is said can be interpreted as unintended. Every educated pin trader on this thread knows that a huge lot of pins for $1+ each are selling scrappers. It's the UNEDUCATED pin traders that are not aware. That is what this thread is for. It is also for those who are seeking to buy legitimate pins online. For those of us who have personal experiences to list them here to help EDUCATE others.

I can tell you that I consider myself an incredibly educated pin trader. I've been pin trading, literally since inception. In fact, when I bought my first pin, the CM's weren't exactly sure what the trading procedure was

I have seen the scrapper sellers in person, I have had personal contact with Meg Gage's office regarding this "epidemic" I was one of the VERY first ones to contact, and encourage others to contact, Disney Legal. I have seen first hand what these scrappers have done and continue to do, to the hobby I love. What I"m saying is, don't presume you know more or less than anyone else here. We're all here to STOP this horrible practice and EDUCATE those who might not know about these sellers. Let's do less finger pointing and assuming and more educating. Just my .02
Rant over
Thanks for your input LionQueen, as always your opinion is highly valued by us.
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Old 11-11-2009, 07:15 PM   #270
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I'm not exactly sure what the highlighted sentence says, it's a bit confusing. And yes, it's the sellers who offer hundreds or thousands of the same pin for trade that knowledgeable buyers avoid
Pin # 1799 on pinpics is one of the rarest pins for a Haunted Mansion collector to obtain. Secondary market price is $500-600 if it comes up on ebay. I bought on on ebay once for $2, just as you obtained a bargain on the TInker Bell pins you mentioned.

On the topic of having CM's turn away scrappers, that would never work. The amount of time training a casual merchandise CM on the hundreds of scrapper pins out there would be cost prohibitive, lead to potentially good pins being turned away in trade, and ultimately discourage CMs from wearing the pin trading lanyard. If you have the opportunity to visit Disneyland, where wearing the lanyard is not encouraged so much as WDW, you will find that they are far and few between.

And again, do not interpret my posts as belittling, I am trying to educate as well. nannub has been singled out as converting scrappers to legit pins off of CMs and then "sharking" tourists at DTD. My point is, he is not the only one doing this. Most of the offenders are not quite as blatant about their actions, and they are not selling multiples of the same pin. Subsidizing these activities is damaging to the hobby as well. The outlet malls have great deals sometimes, I would encourage anyone visiting WDW to make a stop there on the way to the parks. As someone mentioned pages back, they got pins there for under $1. Disney Stores had a Snow White and the 7 dwarves 8 pin set for $14.50 2 years ago. Deals happen, you need to look for them.
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