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Old 06-04-2009, 09:56 PM   #16
KYMickey
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Originally Posted by Snowgod View Post
.....Segways are made for this and as they take up no more space than a person walking, and allow the operator to see over people as they maneuver through the crowd.
That's part of the problem, they will be looking over the people instead of seeing the people that dart in front of them, especially children!
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I believe, based on experience that a person on a Segway is less of a danger than a person on an ECV.
I agree completely than a well trained person on a Segway is not a significant hazard but if they become permissible many local shops to rent them will open and people with no experience will be driving them.

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The 2008 Florida Statutes
........
(5) A county or municipality may prohibit the operation of electric personal assistive mobility devices on any road, street, or bicycle path under its jurisdiction if the governing body of the county or municipality determines that such a prohibition is necessary in the interest of safety.
.......
History.--s. 68, ch. 2002-20.
Well since Reedy River is its own municipality that ought to settle the whole thing right there! Of course the plaintiffs who agree to anything to make it big $'s.
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:55 AM   #17
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Mobility devices do not have to be FDA approved to be covered under the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act). Canes, cruthches and even most ECV's are not FDA approved. FDA approval has nothing to do with the ADA.

Segways have been found (in multiple studies) to be safer than ECV's or power wheel chairs.

Many power chairs or ECV's can go faster than a Segway. A Segways speed can be limited if desired or necessary.

Some people with disablilties can stand but can only walk very short distances. A couple of examples: People with breathing disorders like COPD, spinal cord injuries, MS, ALS, amputees. Some cannot sit down for longer periods of time because of the pain but can stand for extended periods of time.

These are people that own their own Segways and use them every day. They will be attending WDW with their families and not "tearing" around the parks at 12 MPH. I surely don't want to see anyone force an Iraq war veteran that lost one or both legs (and wears prosthetics) into a wheel chair.

If someone operates a device in an unsafe manner, throw them out. This goes for wheel chairs, ECV's and Segways. The Segway is less of a safety hazard that any other mobility device when operated properly.

Show me a case where a person with a qualifying disability, using a Segway as their mobility device, has caused injury to another person.

Realistically, we are probably talking a couple of Segways a day by the disabled. Let them in - Universal Studios and countless other venues throughout the nation do!

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Old 06-05-2009, 09:18 AM   #18
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The problem as I see it is this:

Segways are sexy and they're "cool". If WDW/DLR have to accept them as mobility devices, then all of sudden many Guests will be claiming a disability so they can ride the Segways throughout the parks. First imagine, if you will, Magic Kingdom on a hot summer afternoon in July. Now also imagine that a large percentage of the people that usually walk are riding a Segway. Perfect order? Or will the same behavior we now see in the parks every day be ratcheted up a notch or two? I can just see 100s of folks jockeying for position on Main Street...Disney will have to have uniformed police do traffic duty or put in a traffic light at that first intersection near Casey's & the Ice Cream parlor. And as long as we're imagining the Segways being allowed, let's go over to Epcot's World Showcase where folks can drink alcohol...

If you want to read another thread about this with some interesting posts... http://www.disboards.com/showthread....2129173&page=5

agnes!
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Old 06-05-2009, 09:25 AM   #19
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Once again, we have all of the non-segway people, claiming that the segway is dangerous to use in a pedestrian filled environment. Yes there are reports of Segways having accidents but those accidents involve other Segways, cars and other wheeled vehicles. Show me an accident involving a pedestrian and a Segway!
Do a search on Mobility Scooter accident and see how many deaths, broken legs and injuries you can find.

If disney wants to ban Segways, they have the right but they would have to stop using them also and they make good money from the tours.

Point of information: A segway weighs about 70 pounds, An ECV about 200 pounds.

I have used my Segway to tour the WDW resort areas and I love the paths and sidewalks, especially in the EPCOT resort areas. All the time I was traveling around the Boardwalk, International Gateway and the resorts, I never had anyone tell me I was not allowed or that I should not be there and it was during the Food and Wine Festival when it was busy. OKW resort and Saratoga Springs resorts are connected by wonderful trails and paths but watch out for staff traveling in golf carts as we watched a pair of walking guest dive out of the way as the cleaning staff traveled the path along the river.
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Old 06-05-2009, 09:58 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Snowgod View Post
Once again, we have all of the non-segway people, claiming that the segway is dangerous to use in a pedestrian filled environment. Yes there are reports of Segways having accidents but those accidents involve other Segways, cars and other wheeled vehicles. Show me an accident involving a pedestrian and a Segway!
Do a search on Mobility Scooter accident and see how many deaths, broken legs and injuries you can find.

If disney wants to ban Segways, they have the right but they would have to stop using them also and they make good money from the tours.

Point of information: A segway weighs about 70 pounds, An ECV about 200 pounds.

I have used my Segway to tour the WDW resort areas and I love the paths and sidewalks, especially in the EPCOT resort areas. All the time I was traveling around the Boardwalk, International Gateway and the resorts, I never had anyone tell me I was not allowed or that I should not be there and it was during the Food and Wine Festival when it was busy. OKW resort and Saratoga Springs resorts are connected by wonderful trails and paths but watch out for staff traveling in golf carts as we watched a pair of walking guest dive out of the way as the cleaning staff traveled the path along the river.


Last trip to WDW we rented an EVC because of an ankle injury. It saved the vacation and I have had plenty of experience in scooters, mopeds and the like....it was a breeze to operation little "Dolly". I DID take time when we arrived to practice in the parking lot (backing up, turning, etc.)

However, down at the "butt and belt" level I was more aware of scooters and those who did not have a CLUE how to operate them. Renting these to the u nexprienced could be a mess for Disney.

If you "byo segway" and are experienced, no problem. Rentals.....run as fast as you can away for your safety.

In my boating days I traveled through Bermuda so often I finally opened a bank account there. I always found it cute that the tourist rental scooters had license plates which were white backgrounds with RED numbers and letters. I had a local friend tell me it was to easily identify the tourist - red for blood. I admist to a Weeble-Wooble the first time I scooted in Bermuda!
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Old 06-05-2009, 10:27 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowgod View Post
Once again, we have all of the non-segway people, claiming that the segway is dangerous to use in a pedestrian filled environment. Yes there are reports of Segways having accidents but those accidents involve other Segways, cars and other wheeled vehicles. Show me an accident involving a pedestrian and a Segway!
Do a search on Mobility Scooter accident and see how many deaths, broken legs and injuries you can find.

If disney wants to ban Segways, they have the right but they would have to stop using them also and they make good money from the tours.

Point of information: A segway weighs about 70 pounds, An ECV about 200 pounds.

I have used my Segway to tour the WDW resort areas and I love the paths and sidewalks, especially in the EPCOT resort areas. All the time I was traveling around the Boardwalk, International Gateway and the resorts, I never had anyone tell me I was not allowed or that I should not be there and it was during the Food and Wine Festival when it was busy. OKW resort and Saratoga Springs resorts are connected by wonderful trails and paths but watch out for staff traveling in golf carts as we watched a pair of walking guest dive out of the way as the cleaning staff traveled the path along the river.
My point is not that a Segway in and of itself is dangerous to use in a pedestrian-filled environment but that the pedestrian-filled environment might (if Segways are allowed), morph into a completely different type of environment if there's a much higher proportion of Segways to pedestrians.

And I'm not 'claiming' anything as a "non-segway" person. I thought I was just participating in an interesting discussion, imagining the possibilites both good & bad if Segways were allowed on a wide-scale within the parks at WDW (however that's achieved, either as a disability/assisted-mobility device or as any Guest's personal transport device regardless of disability).

agnes!
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Old 06-05-2009, 10:32 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowgod View Post
Once again, we have all of the non-segway people, claiming that the segway is dangerous to use in a pedestrian filled environment. Yes there are reports of Segways having accidents but those accidents involve other Segways, cars and other wheeled vehicles. Show me an accident involving a pedestrian and a Segway!
Do a search on Mobility Scooter accident and see how many deaths, broken legs and injuries you can find.

If disney wants to ban Segways, they have the right but they would have to stop using them also and they make good money from the tours.

Point of information: A segway weighs about 70 pounds, An ECV about 200 pounds.

I have used my Segway to tour the WDW resort areas and I love the paths and sidewalks, especially in the EPCOT resort areas. All the time I was traveling around the Boardwalk, International Gateway and the resorts, I never had anyone tell me I was not allowed or that I should not be there and it was during the Food and Wine Festival when it was busy. OKW resort and Saratoga Springs resorts are connected by wonderful trails and paths but watch out for staff traveling in golf carts as we watched a pair of walking guest dive out of the way as the cleaning staff traveled the path along the river.

Two comments...one there are far more ECVs then there are Segways in use, so pure volume will contribute to different statistics.

Second, you were using one not in the parks. I think the issue at hand is more of park use then general public area. Think about how crowded the parks are with all the strollers, wheelchairs, ECVs already, now add even more motorized vehicles with Segways.
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Old 06-05-2009, 11:01 AM   #23
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Several important points. (Disclaimer - I am disabled to where I need an ECV when in the parks or in a large shopping mall, but in my normal day to day activities I do not need one. Although I can stand and walk short distances with no problem, if I try walking over 200 yards I have severe pain in my lower joints.)

1. The manufacturer of the Segways has taken no action to have the Segway certified as a medical device. Therefore, no matter what the use they legally are not medical devices.

2. The Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA) does not allow a company to ask for proof of a disability to give the people equal access. Note that if they give higher access, such as something free which others would have to pay for, they are allowed to ask for proof of a disability.

3. Disney considers allowing use of a wheelchair (pushed or power) or an Electric Convenience Vehicle (ECV) which are certified as medical equipment to be used in the park without limit.

4. Disney will rent out equipment, such as wheelchairs and ECVs, which will allow equal use of the parks for people who state they are disabled, even if the disability is temporary. There is nothing to stop any person who has no disability from using a wheelchair or ECV.

5. If Disney decided, on its own, to consider the Segway a medical device and allow its use in the parks it would then be unable to stop anybody from using a Segway in the parks, no matter the persons disability (or lack thereof) or level of experience.

6. Related to this one of the biggest problems in the park is small children running around. Many people walking around do not notice some of the small children, or even people in wheelchairs or ECVs because they are below their normal eye and scan level. I have had many times in the parks where I have come to a complete stop and people have walked directly into my ECV because they did not see me. Add the extra foot or so to the eye level of a person on a Segway and they are less likely to notice small children in their path.

7. And last, the Disney rental ECVs have a maximum speed of less than 3MPH, most private ECVs (including the off-site rentals) have a maximum speed lower than 5MPH. The maximum speed of a Segway is 12½ MPH.

8. The current use of Segways in WDW fall into two categories; one are people on a tour who are chaperoned and in areas where there are not many people at the time and the other are CMs who, by nature of their job, need to cover a wide range of territory. And the CMs are very well trained (over a week of training) in the use of Segways and are required to drive slowly.

Until such time (if ever) that the Segways are certified as medical devices I feel that Disney is acting responsibly in not permitting them for Guests (other than in controlled situations).
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Old 06-05-2009, 11:04 AM   #24
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No disrespect but they should no way allow Segways in the Park. The tour is over b 4 ppl get into the park. I have done both Segways. Love them. And sure it would be fun to drive them all day. BUT I see this as accidents waiting to happen.
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Old 06-05-2009, 11:31 AM   #25
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Unless I am mistaken, the tours you are speaking of are at World Showcase before that area of the park is open to the public, so you do not have to worry about someone losing control of a segway and running into a guest.
I've seen those tours around Epcot during regular park hours riding around guests
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:16 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Snowgod View Post
Once again, we have all of the non-segway people, claiming that the segway is dangerous to use in a pedestrian filled environment. Yes there are reports of Segways having accidents but those accidents involve other Segways, cars and other wheeled vehicles. Show me an accident involving a pedestrian and a Segway!
Do a search on Mobility Scooter accident and see how many deaths, broken legs and injuries you can find.

If disney wants to ban Segways, they have the right but they would have to stop using them also and they make good money from the tours.

Point of information: A segway weighs about 70 pounds, An ECV about 200 pounds.

I have used my Segway to tour the WDW resort areas and I love the paths and sidewalks, especially in the EPCOT resort areas. All the time I was traveling around the Boardwalk, International Gateway and the resorts, I never had anyone tell me I was not allowed or that I should not be there and it was during the Food and Wine Festival when it was busy. OKW resort and Saratoga Springs resorts are connected by wonderful trails and paths but watch out for staff traveling in golf carts as we watched a pair of walking guest dive out of the way as the cleaning staff traveled the path along the river.
Im at a loss as to why I would search for "Mobility Scooter Accident" I'm thinking nothing shows up because no one else calls Segways this

Segways are much higher, with a high centre of gravity, this combined with the much higher speeds makes them much more dangerous. I also doubt the weight information you state you often see people lifting their ECV's into the back of their truck or van, seems doubtful that they wiegh 200 lbs.
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:31 PM   #27
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I've seen those tours around Epcot during regular park hours riding around guests
If the times are still the same, I think there are four tours each day with the first tour starting around 7:45 and the last around 9:30. They are two hour tours and the first 45 minutes or so is spent learning how to ride the segway in the Innoventions building. Most of the remaining time is spent riding around World Showcase, which doesn't open until 11:00. The tours do cross paths with pedestrians for a short bit on the way to and from World Showcase and Innoventions.

We own a Segway, are very experienced with it, and know they can be safe; however, I still don't believe they should be allowed in the parks for many of the reasons already mentioned. I think they may be fine outside the parks, but inside it is just too conjested much of the time to risk the consequences of inexperienced operators.

We love riding the Segway so much that we still take the Epcot tour each trip. During the "training" part of the tour, the video clearly tells any CM that may be taking the tour as a guest that this 2-hour tour does NOT qualify him or her to ride unsupervised on Disney property. After the short video, much time is spent learning to operate and stop the Segway and learning that you and your Segway DO take up a bit more room than just your body does when walking. We have seen a couple of inexperienced people fall because they forgot to watch for the curbs and because they lost control going down hill and they couldn't slow down in time. It seems like ECVs and wheelchairs would be less likely to cause the operator to fall or lose control after such incidents, which could be somewhat frequent, given all of the attention distractions that are found in the parks.

I also don't think Disney would have to abandon CM-operated use of Segways, nor the tours, if they continue to disallow guest use of Segways. The tours are supervised and the CMs receive extended training. If Segways were allowed to be used in the parks by guests, I can't see how Disney would be able to retain control over the training that should be required before the devices can be operated unsupervised in the parks, especially with the number of 3rd party vendors that might decide to rent them. Since Disney doesn't currently ask for proof of disability or experience with the devices before allowing ECVs into the park, or when renting them to guests, how would they identify and stop an inexperienced Segway rider from bringing a Segway in?
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:12 PM   #28
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Gee, aren't those baby strollers dangerous enough? Now we have to avoid bigger and heavier faster moving modes of transportation while walking around the parks...................
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:23 PM   #29
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:27 PM   #30
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The Disney Segways are kept on "turtle" mode, meaning they can only reach speeds of 4 to 5 mph maximum. Segways belonging to private individuals can travel at more than 12 mph. It's a matter of guest safety.
Um...if they are, for the tours, then Disney CMs are the exception. We were practically run down by a CM on a segway just prior to Illuminations, as he was flying at full-speed. Absolutely MUCH faster than four or five MPH.
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