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Old 05-07-2008, 12:32 AM   #31
stitchk
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Mrs Hobbes

I have not read all the replies to the thread here but I thought I would give my point of view.

This is not Nintendo's fault. Coming from an active and healthy lifestyle, I know all about BMI's and such terms. BMI is calculated by your weight and height in square metres. This is a well known scientific formula which has been used all around the world for working out BMI's.

If you go into google you can google up BMI charts. I looked up one and put in the figures that you stated, her height and weight. According to those charts she is not in the "normal" weight range, rather in the 85th percentile which is "leading on towards being overweight" and with the 95th percentile it's overweight.

BMI is not meant to calculate fat. Why would it when we can just use the scales to tell us that? Have you ever weighed yourself or seen someoen weigh themselves and it said they were a bit on the heavy side even though they don't look like it? Sure they may be solid, but the scale doesn't know that. The BMI checks the weight and measures it in porportion to the height. Which is more accurate than scales. Here's a few quotes I found:

"Your BMI is an important health tool because your weight alone doesn't tell the whole story. If your BMI is too high, you're at greater risk than people with a normal BMI to die prematurely from chronic health problems."

"If your BMI is high, you may have an increased risk of developing certain diseases, including:
Hypertension
Cardiovascular Disease
Dyslipidemia
Adult-Onset Diabetes (Type II)
Sleep Apnea
Osteoarthritis
Female Infertility
Other Conditions, including:
idiopathic intracranial hypertension
lower extremity venous stasis disease
gastroesophageal reflux
urinary stress incontinence"


As you can see this isn't Nintendo's fault. There's alot of people out there who brought the game... why? Maybe fun, but to get fit, or make a start on it. It shows on the trailers that people need to enter their weight and height, and it monitors your progress. If an adult who wanted to buy the game was sensitive about their weight wouldn't like the game either. Even though it's a game, it's based on scientific forumulas, like many other diet/health measuring machines in the world.

My point is that, if you think your child looks solid or is overweight, and they don't like being told such a thing then maybe the game isnt recommended for them. I'd say the same thing if they wanted to go to a Gym to get tests done about their height, weight, and other such things. The same result would occur.

The results aren't based on what models look like. The standard isn't "Ok this model is really tall, and really thin, we will make this average. And the normal avereage Joe is now considered overweight". I'm not stick thin, i'm a healthy 127 pounds (around 56 kilograms) and i'm in the normal section. I don't look like a model.

I'm sorry to hear your child took it that way, but, like I stated you would get the same result everywhere else. BMI is not meant to say wether someone is exactly overweight or not, it's just to let them know that they are bigger than what is average for that height. And to let them know that if it does get worse then they are more susceptable to chronic disorders.

I don't think this should be something to complain to Nintendo about because it's not their problem. Sure it's a game but it's a game thats supposed to measure your weight and BMI and allow you to do exercises that help you lose some weight. If people don't like what they're gonna see then they shouldn't get it. Just like they won't weigh themselves in fear that they're gonna be too heavy.

It's just my two cents, that's all. I'm sorry to hear about your child/relative. But I just don't think that this shouldn't be a big deal. It happens all the time.

Last edited by stitchk; 05-07-2008 at 12:42 AM.
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Old 05-07-2008, 12:37 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DebIreland View Post
I agree with you Emma.

I'm not comfortable with the Wii Fit telling *any* child his/her weight actually. I think it should focus on positive reinforcement and exercise regimes for the Under 15s and forget the whole weight/bmi area.

According to my Wii Fit I gained 3 pounds in the last week even though Weight Watchers says I lost 2 pound in the exact same time.

I really love Wii Fit but as I say, I'm certainly not keen on it 'telling' kids that they're overweight/obese. Even when a child is overweight, there are ways and means of dealing with obesity in kids and the best way to do that is to encourage exercise without labelling them as 'fat'.
I just read this message. You should know that weight can fluctuate very easily. When you weighed in at the time you might have just eaten, or had drank a bit of water. As a general note to weight loss and dieting, you should always weigh yourself at the same time each week on the same day, with no heavy clothes and stuff like that. If you go to the bathroom before you weigh yourself then no doubt it will indiciate as a loss, but if you just ate lunch before you weighed yourself then it will indicate a gain. Anything around that loss or gain of 2 pounds or so shouldn't really count. If it was 5 pounds loss from weight watchers, and a 4 pound gain according to wii fit, then that might pose a problem (if you have measured yourself at the same day of each week as pointed above).
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Old 05-07-2008, 02:35 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by hohoho View Post
It's another gimmick from the Ninterrorists. It attracts complete morons into buying something that is completely unnecessary (Like the Wii itself!)

Wii = GameCube + Motion Controls + HUGE PRICE MARKUP. Get a PS2. $99. Or if you want real next-gen gaming get a PS3 or 360. Nintendo needs to stop ripping people off by overcharging for last-gen technology for both their Wii and DS ... not to mention the ungodly amount of garbage games that plague both systems.

WII-FIT WILL NOT MAKE YOU FIT. It's A COMPLETE GIMMICK. Even the man who created it says so:


Wii Fit Doesn't Actually Make You Fit, Definitely Makes Miyamoto's Wallet Fat

See that? DEFINITION of BS + Gimmick + Ripoff.

That guy who posted the video, posted the wrong one:

THIS IS THE CORRECT VIDEO:





And LOL @ The guy who said it's "The biggest rage" - Biggest rage with little kids and soccer moms, sure.

For us REAL GAMERS, the "biggest rage" is MGS4, GoW2, GTA4, Resistance 2, etc ;-)
Sorry, but not everyone are real gamers, there is such a phrase as "Casual Gamers". This means people who wan to have fun with their console, maybe play games as a family, and not a hardcore gamer, which I'm presuming you are. Ok, Ok, so the Wii measurements are a little off, nintendo now know this. Just because you think the Wii is "unecessary" doesn't mean that it isn't popular. And the price, if you recall, the previous set of consoles especially the PS2, were priced similarly to the Wii when they first came out, for which everyone said that they were overpriced.

Nintendo are appealing to the mass market of familys with younger children and not every parent wants their 6 year old playing Gears Of War, this is why the DS and Wii are so popular, Nintendo have realised that the features that are going to make the console popular were not super duper graphics or lots of games that you shoot people with, which would just mean a PS3 or 360 clone, but a console thats interactive with the user and something they can have a lot of fun. And you call it last gen technology, give me an example of a console that uses the remote technology like the Wii as a main controlling method, and the Six-axis Playstation 3 controllers do not count as they are a different technology, or a handheld console that utilises a touch screen, with dual screen play?

And, do you not think that if people wanted a Gamecube, they would buy a gamecube? They haven't become obsolete yet!

So, before you go flaming people because they don't share the same "Hardcore gamer" opinions like you, maybe you should think about why people want these consoles. And before you ask, I am a hardcore gamer, and yes I'm buying a Wii, because I want one, even though I play a 360, because theres so many things for a Wii, that don't come on a 360!

And one last thing, you forgot Halo 3.
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Old 05-07-2008, 03:33 AM   #34
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This is quite worrying.
With an active 8 year old,she also wants the wiifit purely as she see's it has "fun" and nothing more,I'd also be concerned if it labelled her "fat".
I hope you get somewhere with your complaint.
Fun/Serious gaming so on,it still is shocking to read that a *healthy* child is labelled "fat" on a game.
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Old 05-07-2008, 04:16 AM   #35
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Seriously is this forum full of just parents?Cmon why would someone care about a game making a wrong calculation and calling them fat?Hell.
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Old 05-07-2008, 05:21 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by StupIdiot View Post
Seriously is this forum full of just parents?Cmon why would someone care about a game making a wrong calculation and calling them fat?Hell.
Not all parents, I'm 17. I personally don't care what a video game says about you, Brain Training constantly tells me I'm stupid, even though I'm not. I guess some people think differently.
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Old 05-07-2008, 05:41 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Beth__WDW23/6/02 View Post
This is quite worrying.
With an active 8 year old,she also wants the wiifit purely as she see's it has "fun" and nothing more,I'd also be concerned if it labelled her "fat".
I hope you get somewhere with your complaint.
Fun/Serious gaming so on,it still is shocking to read that a *healthy* child is labelled "fat" on a game.
You should read my post at the top of your page before you say that. The game did not label her fat. If you know what BMI meant no one would be saying that. If the Wii Fit game also had body fat calibers and it said she was fat, then you can say that. Because THAT calculates fat.

When a big boned person steps on scales and it tells them they're 150 kilograms, people would assume they're fat. But no, if you used the body fat calibers then it could say they have only 19% body fat which is excellent for a female. It is not calculating fat. It is not meant to calculate how fat you are. It's to let you know that your BMI can lead you to problems if you're ongoing with that weight.

Keep in mind, most trailers you see with Wii Fit, particularly the one I downloaded which is around 4-7 minutes long, it shows people 17+ playing the game and weighing themselves. I have not seen a child as young as 10 weighing themselves. As you know it's more accurate for older people, as they use different BMI calculations. For a child it would have to be modified.


I wish people would read these posts before agreeing with bringing this up with Nintendo. You should not be concerned that your child will be called fat if they understood what it meant. This game has been out since Janurary (or Decemeber) in Japan - no complaints from there. I think it's just people taking this too far. Read my previous posts if you haven't already.

Note: Just for laughs, what is the rating on this game? It should be for mature audiences, Ie, People know to accept things and understand what is meant by it. I believe this game was designed for the average family yes, but I don't think children of that age were meant to be weighing themselves with it. They could play the mini games but I don't think they should be weighing themselves as they're too young to need to worry about such things. Correct?
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Old 05-07-2008, 06:23 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by astrodrummergirl View Post
Sorry, but not everyone are real gamers, there is such a phrase as "Casual Gamers". This means people who wan to have fun with their console, maybe play games as a family, and not a hardcore gamer, which I'm presuming you are. Ok, Ok, so the Wii measurements are a little off, nintendo now know this. Just because you think the Wii is "unecessary" doesn't mean that it isn't popular. And the price, if you recall, the previous set of consoles especially the PS2, were priced similarly to the Wii when they first came out, for which everyone said that they were overpriced.

Nintendo are appealing to the mass market of familys with younger children and not every parent wants their 6 year old playing Gears Of War, this is why the DS and Wii are so popular, Nintendo have realised that the features that are going to make the console popular were not super duper graphics or lots of games that you shoot people with, which would just mean a PS3 or 360 clone, but a console thats interactive with the user and something they can have a lot of fun. And you call it last gen technology, give me an example of a console that uses the remote technology like the Wii as a main controlling method, and the Six-axis Playstation 3 controllers do not count as they are a different technology, or a handheld console that utilises a touch screen, with dual screen play?

And, do you not think that if people wanted a Gamecube, they would buy a gamecube? They haven't become obsolete yet!

So, before you go flaming people because they don't share the same "Hardcore gamer" opinions like you, maybe you should think about why people want these consoles. And before you ask, I am a hardcore gamer, and yes I'm buying a Wii, because I want one, even though I play a 360, because theres so many things for a Wii, that don't come on a 360!

And one last thing, you forgot Halo 3.
I agree, just take it for what it is.

I have a wii as something to do with my family thats different from playing cards or watching a movie (we do that a lot), this is something we can all enjoy doing. If it gets us a bit fitter in the process, ok. I don't like anyone being called fat, but BMI is no where near as useful as waist circumference or other ways of testing fitness. My dad is technically 'overweight' because he is a cycling and gym enthusiast, and is all muscle!!

It is to be taken with a pinch of salt, maybe talk to her about this.

I have to say i find my brain trainner fairly offensive, it has a go at me if i don't play on it every day and calls me stupid!
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Old 05-07-2008, 07:56 AM   #39
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I wasn't going to respond to this thread, as it seems to have degenerated into a puerile rant from a few disgruntled gamers who are not regular members of the disboard. However having been on the receiving end of a few pathetic hostile pms and the fact that my parenting skills have been questioned and it has been suggested that I am somehow in denial about my step daughters weight I felt I must respond.

Firstly I would like to apologise to the regular members of the disboard for bringing such negativity to what is a lovely forum and a wonderful community to post in.

Secondly I would like to thank the members of dis that have posted their opinions both in agreement and disagreement with my original post on here in a mature and thoughtful way without resorting to childish ranting.

Thirdly I would like to add in response to all the criticism I’ve received the letter that my DH sent to Nintendo, this outlines our considered opinion. It also demonstrates that we ourselves looked into the data given by the wiifit before deciding to complain to Nintendo. If the data that we had found had showed that my stepdaughter was indeed overweight then we would have addressed this with her however this was not the conclusion that we drew from our research.

Dear Sir/ Madam

I recently purchased the WiiFit for my whole family to use and was very keen to promote it to the household as a fun and functional fitness tool. I applaud Nintendo's stance in today's market, bringing games consoles out of the teenagers’ bedroom and into the family lounge. The range of diverse titles such as Brain Training, WiiSports etc is commendable and they deserve the market share and critical accolades that have been lauded on them. I am a huge Nintendo fan having stuck with the company since the Super Nintendo as a teenager myself. I explain all this as a background to my following comments as I do not wish them to be dismissed as a disgruntled person whining for the sake of it. My ten-year-old daughter is 4'9" tall and according to the WiiFit weighs 6 stone 10 pounds. Metrically this is 42.73 kgs and 1.448m tall. WiiFit has labelled her as overweight much to her upset and dismay. She is a healthy active girl who attends dance lessons and swimming on a weekly basis, taking part in many other physical activities at her school and in her social life. With all the emphasis placed on today's eating disorders and the pressure on young girls to be thin I feel this labelling of 'overweight' is misguided and dangerous. I hope I will get a response from this matter, I have written to you direct rather than try and create some kind of bad publicity for Nintendo by going to gutter press newspapers.

Furthermore, this is not the blinkered rant of an over-protective parent. I have entered the same figures from the WiiFit software for age, height and weight into several accredited online resources and find they do not agree with this result...

CDC Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (http://www.cdc.gov/index.htm) An American site. It labels her as the 82nd percentile and within healthy guidelines.

Weight Loss Resources (http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk...calculator.htm) It labels her with a BMI of 20.6 on a scale where 18.5 to 25 is ideal, putting her nearer underweight than overweight

I could list many more websites to back up this opinion, that 18-25 is a healthy BMI and that her BMI is either 20.5 or 20.6. With BMI being totally dependant on height and weight with no allowance for physical build or muscle percentage, that is an inaccurate form of measurement. I know the limitations of the balance board prevent a better method and it is a tool and not an answer to all the problems but with children it is thin ice. I am slightly overweight and would freely admit to it, but children are impressionable and very conscious of their self-worth and this is how eating disorders and emotional problems can arise.

I look forward to hearing from you

Yours sincerely
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Old 05-07-2008, 08:01 AM   #40
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In the European (maybe US too?) instruction booklet it says that:

A) BMI calculations may not work correctly on children
B) BMI calculations may not work on body builders because the weight mass of their muscle

With that disclaimer it's said that you shouldn't take the BMI value to harsh.
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Old 05-07-2008, 08:06 AM   #41
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The disclaimer in the manual is there for a reason. Mistakes can happen and the balance board does not provide for 100% accuracy; it is not designed to be a set of accurate scales. I think you're over-reacting, and the fact of the matter is that Nintendo use the widely acclaimed BMI scale to calculate the definitions, it's not something they made up themselves. If you believed your step-daughter would react sensitively to the game, then you shouldn't have purchased it.
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Old 05-07-2008, 08:13 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Hobbes View Post
I wasn't going to respond to this thread, as it seems to have degenerated into a puerile rant from a few disgruntled gamers who are not regular members of the disboard. However having been on the receiving end of a few pathetic hostile pms and the fact that my parenting skills have been questioned and it has been suggested that I am somehow in denial about my step daughters weight I felt I must respond.

Firstly I would like to apologise to the regular members of the disboard for bringing such negativity to what is a lovely forum and a wonderful community to post in.

Secondly I would like to thank the members of dis that have posted their opinions both in agreement and disagreement with my original post on here in a mature and thoughtful way without resorting to childish ranting.

Thirdly I would like to add in response to all the criticism I’ve received the letter that my DH sent to Nintendo, this outlines our considered opinion. It also demonstrates that we ourselves looked into the data given by the wiifit before deciding to complain to Nintendo. If the data that we had found had showed that my stepdaughter was indeed overweight then we would have addressed this with her however this was not the conclusion that we drew from our research.

well said

i for one can't believe how this thread has been attacked by a few that felt they needed to join this forum just to attack your post
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Old 05-07-2008, 08:31 AM   #43
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Emma,you have no reason to apologise(i also bit my tongue)-we are all entitled to opinion's .Because this seems to have been linked to a gamers message board-they have decided to become dis members for the day (and gaming experts)to pick at what you have said.Just ignore+don't feed the trolls.x.
As for the pm's i am sure you can go to a mod about them-but don't answer them and stoop to there level.x.
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Old 05-07-2008, 08:31 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanscape View Post
If you believed your step-daughter would react sensitively to the game, then you shouldn't have purchased it.
My step daughter doesn't live with us, she visits every other week. The wiifit was primarily brought for myself and my husband to use but we felt that there was no reason not to let the children have a go. I did not think for 1 minute that either of them would be labelled as unhealthy so we were all shocked. Of course if I felt that my stepdaughter was overweight or if I knew she was particularly body conscientious I would have steered her away from playing it and we'd have done something else. She is a beauitful healthy happy active and confident girl who excels in school. However as a 10year old girl who is becoming increasingly aware of fashions, her own body and boys to effectively be called fat did upset her which I believe is understandable.
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Old 05-07-2008, 08:34 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Snowy-girls View Post
Emma,you have no reason to apologise(i also bit my tounge)-we are all entitled to opinion's .Because this seems to have been linked to a gamers message board-they have decided to become dis members for the day (and gaming experts)to pick at what you have said.Just ignore+don't feed the trolls.x.
As for the pm's i am sure you can go to a mod about them-but don't answer them and stoop to there level.x.

Thanks Michelle, as you suggested I did ignore the pms and just forwarded them to the mods I have no desire to enflame this situation further or to get into a private pm war. My DH runs a motorsport forum so I am all to aware of how easy these situations can errupt
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