DVC RESALES
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Old 07-14-2010, 11:47 AM   #136
JimMIA
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Originally Posted by Deb & Bill View Post
Usually they are renting out the reservation because they want to use the cash for something else and they need the cash now, not several months from now.
This is true, and it's the "snake in the shopping cart" with any kind of cancellation/refund agreement. The guarantee of a refund is only as good as the owner's checkbook balance.

There's no silver bullet folks! Renting involves risk on both sides and requires trust on both sides.

If you don't feel comfortable, don't waste your time looking for magic -- walk away.
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Old 07-14-2010, 01:14 PM   #137
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This is true, and it's the "snake in the shopping cart" with any kind of cancellation/refund agreement. The guarantee of a refund is only as good as the owner's checkbook balance.

There's no silver bullet folks! Renting involves risk on both sides and requires trust on both sides.

If you don't feel comfortable, don't waste your time looking for magic -- walk away.
Yep, Disney - or a zillion other hotels in Orlando - will be happy to rent you a room backed by formal and clear cancellation policies and a corporate reputation and checkbook. There is a reason DVC rentals are a good deal.
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Old 07-15-2010, 10:58 AM   #138
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thanks for the answers

thanks for the answers. The argument of the owner renting out his/her points just because he/she needs the money does indeed make sense.
The argument about the "trashing the room" was not very clear to me ? if the renter checks in and damages his/her room, the reservation is on his/her name, so won't he/she be held liable and not the owner ?
The argument about the renter being able to cancel the reservation seemed contradictory to what i've read; i thought working with an escrow account, the renter would lose the full amount +costs if he'd cancel for any reason.

For the rest, yes, you're right, it does indeed require trust on both side and i know the majority of owners are of good will. I'm just slightly more worried because i've been cheated before (not dvc) and being all new to this. No need to bite my nose off for being cautious and asking questions to understand this better :-)
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Old 07-15-2010, 11:14 AM   #139
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thanks for the answers

by the way, to make sure i don't get anyone feeling irritated by my questions, i will likely be renting points and i am super happy to being able to do that... as it will allow my family and me to completely submerge in the magical world of disney... right smack in the middle of things.... so all of you owners out there, thanks for giving non-owners such an opportunity :-)
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Old 07-15-2010, 11:34 AM   #140
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No the owner is liable for room damages and charges. They MIGHT go after the occupant. They MIGHT go after no one at all. But they CAN go after the owner. And its easy for them to do so, because they just lock our accounts and make our ownership unusable until everything is straightened out.

As for cancellation, we are talking about the owners ability to cancel. Most owners require payment 60 days in advance, and watch their use year (the smart ones do if they can). And a lot of them ask for half up front. So if you don't pay, they cancel, keep the first half of your money, and try and rerent. Very little risk for them if set up correctly. i.e. little benefit to escrow for the owner - not worth the hassle when there will be someone else willing to agree to your terms without escrow.
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Old 07-15-2010, 01:35 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by janischa View Post
The argument about the "trashing the room" was not very clear to me ? if the renter checks in and damages his/her room, the reservation is on his/her name, so won't he/she be held liable and not the owner ?
As Crisi said above, Disney might go after the guest, but ultimately we, as owners, are responsible for anything that happens with one of our points stays. There have been cases where room charges were unpaid and the owner's account was frozen until they were paid. I don't personally know of any room-trashing charges, but Crisi or Sammie might. Bottom line, the owner is ultimately responsible.
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The argument about the renter being able to cancel the reservation seemed contradictory to what i've read; i thought working with an escrow account, the renter would lose the full amount +costs if he'd cancel for any reason.
The whole question of cancellations is problematic because there are so many variables, and there is actually no way for a renter to know how a cancellation will really affect an owner's account. And believe me, a LOT of owners (especially new owners renting "free" points they can't use) don't know either!

There are a lot of options to try to manage cancellation risk. I think the most effective method is to have the reservation be 100% non-cancelable for any reason, and have the renter take out trip insurance to cover their risk. That won't cover every risk, but neither will any other approach.

Escrow accounts are one option, but not very commonly used, probably because they are a little complicated, and also they could delay the owner receiving their money by almost a year.

In many cases, owners will draw up a rental contract that specifies situations and timelines for which refunds will be made. That is potentially a trap for both owner and renter, but it's often done. One problem with those clauses is they sound good on paper, but when a problem actually occurs there is often a disagreement about what constitutes a sufficient reason for canceling. Another big problem is that the owner may have already spent your money and may simply not have the working capital to make a refund.

One of my all-time Best Red Flags is the owner who says, "Don't worry, if a problem comes up, I'll work with you to work it out." That is code for "I don't have a clue what I'm doing." Those owners mean well, but they are leading the renter (and themselves) down a primrose path to trouble.

My fave is non-cancelable. That's the way most private rentals of timeshares, condos, vacation homes, etc. are done and there is a reason why it's the standard. People have tried the other options with limited success.

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I'm just slightly more worried because i've been cheated before (not dvc) and being all new to this. No need to bite my nose off for being cautious and asking questions to understand this better :-)
It's good to be cautious, but you should understand that fraud is almost never the problem with rentals. Misunderstandings and lack of understanding (by both parties) are much more common.

Your questions are perfectly sensible. Keep asking them. Nobody's "biting your nose off," or at least we don't mean to sound that way.

The bottom line, though, is that renting is not for everyone -- on either side of the transaction. Renting is one way to save money on one component of Disney vacation costs -- lodging. It's not the only way to save money.

There is an element of risk, and not all of that risk can be eliminated.
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Old 07-15-2010, 07:57 PM   #142
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so...as a renter..if the tenant doesn't pay their room tab or has damages, we're hosed

and ultimately our only recourse would be small claims court?

Definitely have to weigh risk/reward

Last edited by hacknsuit; 07-15-2010 at 07:58 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 07-15-2010, 08:46 PM   #143
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so...as a renter..if the tenant doesn't pay their room tab or has damages, we're hosed
No, we're responsible.

DVC is exchanging the room with us - noone else - in return for our points. All points reservations are between the owner and DVC - nobody else can make a reservation with our points. In fact, MS won't even talk to anyone else about our points accounts. It's our reservation - no one else's.

If DVC gets stuck, we get stuck because we reserved the room and are responsible for it.

Incidentally, there are no big mysteries about this. It's right in the POS and many of the other DVC documents.

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and ultimately our only recourse would be small claims court?
If we can't get the tenant to pay up, yes...which is to say NO recourse.

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Definitely have to weigh risk/reward
Always.
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Old 07-15-2010, 10:24 PM   #144
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Its a small risk. I've heard one rumor about someone getting stuck with charges for a trashed room - years ago for their own son and his college friends over Spring Break. And three(?) unpaid room bills which in none of the cases were a scam, and in all cases the owner was made whole. And I think two cases where the renter asked for an upgrade and got it - points coming out of the owners account for the difference (oops), and I've been on this board ten years.
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Old 07-15-2010, 11:00 PM   #145
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There is risk for both the person wanting a Reservation and the DVC member making it.

The guest has to trust the member to deliver what is agreed upon. That includes making the reservation, booking dining if wanted, setting up Magical Express if needed and requests.

The member is responsible if the guest damages the room and yes it does happen.

The member could also be in a fix, if the guest asked for an upgrade when they checked in for larger unit, or different view and it was granted and the extra points came from the Member's account. This actually is a very likely scenario if the Member does not notify DVC when booking that the person is renting. Members need to make sure they let MS know they are booking a rental.

The trust is a two way street and usually most problems come from lack of communication on both parts.
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Old 07-16-2010, 10:51 AM   #146
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The member could also be in a fix, if the guest asked for an upgrade when they checked in for larger unit, or different view and it was granted and the extra points came from the Member's account. This actually is a very likely scenario if the Member does not notify DVC when booking that the person is renting. Members need to make sure they let MS know they are booking a rental.
.
If disney doesn't officially recognize the renting process...how likely are they to be responsive to our notification to them that we are renting to a third party? If the renter knows they can ask for a "free" upgrade on us. I can't believe disney really cares about stopping them. Is it even good to tell disney we are rentlng points?

I find this interesting...looks like I'm going to be eating 250 points expiring in 11/10..just to aviod being gouged!
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Old 07-16-2010, 11:43 AM   #147
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If disney doesn't officially recognize the renting process...
Disney does officially recognize renting -- it's in your POS. What they prohibit is using your account for "commercial purposes," as in buying DVC for the purpose of renting, or doing large numbers of rentals each year. There is absolutely nothing wrong with renting points you can't use.
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how likely are they to be responsive to our notification to them that we are renting to a third party?
You'll get a variety of responses. Disney doesn't like renting, but they can't stop it because they do it in a BIG way themselves. So sometimes, you'll get a little attitude from an MS CM. If you do, just call back and speak with someone else.
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Old 07-16-2010, 11:46 AM   #148
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I find this interesting...looks like I'm going to be eating 250 points expiring in 11/10..just to aviod being gouged!
If you aren't comfortable with doing it yourself, use Daddio's service.

Or, find a member looking for a transfer. Once you have the money and the points are transfered then it's all up to them.
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Old 07-16-2010, 09:25 PM   #149
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I find this interesting...looks like I'm going to be eating 250 points expiring in 11/10..just to aviod being gouged!
Which is why many people do not rent. Instead, they opt to transfer the bulk of their points to someone else. Once those points are transferred, they are no longer your responsibility.
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Old 07-17-2010, 09:11 AM   #150
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Which is why many people do not rent. Instead, they opt to transfer the bulk of their points to someone else. Once those points are transferred, they are no longer your responsibility.
Or they don't rent to strangers. I DO tell people we own DVC, and a lot of them say "if you ever aren't going to use it...." I keep those folks, and a list of friends who would love to go to Disney inexpensively in the front of my phone book. We haven't had to use it yet, but if we did, we'd start calling and offer them points at the cost of our dues. It wouldn't be $10 or $12 a point, but it would cover dues that year.
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