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Old 08-17-2006, 08:10 PM   #31
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I think we all know the discounts are not guaranteed. I think a great many of us, however, are disappointed and I think it's perfectly normal to feel that way.

A lot of websites (including this one) outline the benefits of an AP, the number one of which always seems to be resort discounts. I quote Mousesavers "Savings for Annual and Seasonal Passholders can be deep (up to 45%)" and again "When available, the Annual Passholder rates are so good that in some cases it's worth investing in an Annual Pass for relatively short stays!" In the past, that was a wonderful feature that probably helped many people. It's too bad it's not the case right now.

Personally, I always knew it was a gamble to count on resort discounts. My currently planned vacations don't depend on them - we'll go regardless. My gamble probably won't pay off and in the end Disney will win, because I'll probably feel that I 'need' to go an extra time or too to justify having bought the pass. They know what they're doing, that's for sure.
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Old 08-17-2006, 08:21 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnothin
I know people won't like this, but APs are for *park admission*. The perks are subject to change at any time, and you shouldn't rely on them as many tend to do. Sure, we saved a little more than I would have my AAA rate, but it is a minimal savings. Sure, the DDE helps a little here and there as well. But here's the deal: I bought the AP so that I could visit a few times in a single year and not have to worry about purchasing tickets each time .... plain and simple.

Disney has *TONS* of annual passholders. There will be plenty to fill in the gaps as some choose not to renew. As stated before, they are a business, and they are out to make money. Unfortunately for us all, they know how to do that all too well.

I agree. Every so often we get one of these threads where folks carry on about how Disney doesn't love them.

Disney is a business, it's the JOB of business to make money. Don't fool yourself if Universal and Sea World didn't feel like they had to offer those discounts they wouldn't. They aren't doing it because they "love" thier AP holders, it's all about the CASH. They offer those discounts because otherwise people don't come visit!!!!

If Disney can sell the rooms at rack rate, good for them. It's not like there are not TONS of less costly alternatives in Orlando.

And to be honest if Disney can sell the room at rack rate and a ticket at full price then that's more profitable then AP holders like me.

I looked at the AP rates for the night I needed in Oct. and then I booked at the Hotel Royal Plaza (King Tower Room $79!!!) I am not upset with Disney, I just felt like that was a good choice for me for that trip.
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Old 08-17-2006, 08:21 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anc96
I have to disagree with you.
I think most of us know that it's "admission media"... that's not really the point. The point is that as AP holders we had gotten those discounts and perks in the past, and we were made to feel special.
We've always understood these extras were extras. And we were happy that Disney thought enough about their Passholder to offer them to us. I don't see anyone saying "they can't do that - we're passholders!"... we are saying "why are we not so important anymore?".

They are certainly a business, no one disputes their right to make money... but I think with all the recent increases... and then increases again, and then what feels like the neglect of it's Passholders, we're thinking, Disney is greedy. And greedy is not a nice quality. It makes me sad that Disney should act in this way.

Unless things change back to us feeling 'special' again.. I will not be purchasing APs next year. But I'd have no regrets because as others' have noted, there are many beautiful places in this country we can explore.
That doesn't mean we will never return to Disney... of course we will. But APs wouldn't be necessary as it wouldn't be our "vacation place" as it is now... it will just be another one of many.
How were you made to feel special, because business was down for Disney and they needed to discount rooms in order to fill them?

I am sorry but I see no connection with the economy of travel for a few years versus this "I am special situation."
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Old 08-17-2006, 08:48 PM   #34
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I agree with those of you that have stated an AP is just admission media and not a way to get a room discount.

The discount was never guaranteed. Sure, it was offered in the past, but that doesn't mean it will always be offered. Just because mousesavers (or any other site) says that you 'may' get a discount, doesn't mean you will.

I looked at getting an AP; not for the room discounts, but because I hope to go several times in a year. I decided against it because I want the DDP (and I don't want to keep buying one day tickets).

Universal (and the rest) aren't giving discounts because they treasure AP holders. They do it because they need to drum up business.

If you can't afford to pay rack rate, then don't book that resort/level. There is nothing wrong with staying at a value or mod. There is also nothing wrong with staying in a standard room without concierge.

If the room is that important, then spend less elsewhere. Life is about choices. I would love to stay at the Poly, but the money can be spent elsewhere. I am choosing to stay at a value.

You should be happy that you can afford an AP; some people never get to go to WDW.

This is not meant to be mean, but people need to get over themselves. Disney is a business and they owe it to themselves and their stockholders to do what is best for the company. Disney has bills to pay too.
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Old 08-17-2006, 09:08 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammie
How were you made to feel special, because business was down for Disney and they needed to discount rooms in order to fill them?

I am sorry but I see no connection with the economy of travel for a few years versus this "I am special situation."
I do understand where he's coming from, but reality just doesn't follow up.

Disney isn't your family. That doesn't make it less magical, it's just a line that definately does exist. Disney is a vacation with magical properties that costs money. It's tough to think about, but there really isn't anything altruistic about it. They aren't "magical" for the sake of it (and by "magical" of course I mean that extra level of service we expect and generally get at WDW), but because it helps us keep coming back. Disney doesn't give away free vacations to anyone; even Make-A-Wish trips are generally independently financed.

The thing is, AP holders are already obviously hooked on the Disney-crack. People that are frequent visitors don't generally get directed e-mail codes, they send those to people they want to hook on the experience.

Wanting discounts and being disapointed is one thing, but we have some people talking about family dreams being crushed and getting angry that Disney doesn't love us because they didn't offer some discount they did a year ago. This year has nothing to do with last year. People forget that last year we were still recovering from Katrina, and many, many people did not travel last fall because of the super-severe hurricane season. It's not as bad this year, therefore Disney didn't have extra rooms to get rid of.

It's also VERY VERY nice of Disney to allow us to book and apply codes later. Disney is ABSOLUTELY unique in their very, very liberal reservation policies (especially for room-only rates). People are talking about other travel destinations and absolutely no one has the cancellation and change policies of Disney. A new discount comes out, sorry, you're stuck. Usually the cancellation fees for the first ressie are so much it's not worth it. Not with Disney - even if you don't show up AT ALL for a room-only ressie, you only loose your 1 night deposit.

The problem is that this has created some false expectations among people. The kicker is that reserving a room now to apply a code later does NOT help you use that code at all. I was just discussing this in another thread when someone said they wanted to double book for a chance at a later discount (which is subject to cancellation anyway for double booking). When you call to "apply" the code, there either is a room at those dates for that code or there isn't. Your prior reservation does not affect availability AT ALL for that code rate. If there aren't code rooms left for those dates, your existing reservation does not help; it's a finite number and when they are out they are out.

I understand some people see this as a larger issue with "losing" magic with Disney, and that's an entirely other topic. Disney offers discount codes when it has extra rooms available. When it doesn't have them to discount, they don't. There is no lack of "love", or anything else. I'm not a Disney apologist, but I read the terms and conditions when I buy something like an AP, and I have enough experience to know how it works.

As this thread spells out with crystal clarity, your opinions on Disney magic or not, and regardless of if one continues to vacation at Disney or elsewhere (completely irrelevant), the cold hard fact is this is what happens when people count their chickens before they hatch. This is how it works. I just really hope that it prevents others from making the same mistakes in the future.

NED
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Old 08-17-2006, 09:18 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammie
I am sorry but I see no connection with the economy of travel for a few years versus this "I am special situation."
I don't see a connection of this comment to anything I stated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammie
How were you made to feel special, because business was down for Disney and they needed to discount rooms in order to fill them?
I don't think that for years... "business was down for Disney" lol.

But anyway, some businesses have the ability of having repeat customers feel special. And yes.. that way is by giving perks. I felt as an AP holder I was treated with extra perks because Disney CARED about their AP holders. I don't think I'm alone in that feeling considering all the negative feelings revealed in this thread.
This is not to say that Disney ever actually cared about the AP holders themselves rather than the money they could make off of them. But, if FELT like they cared. That's what mattered. At least that's what mattered to me.

Disney has been very successful over the years, all the while AP holders weren't saying "what's happening". Now it seems many of us are. That has to say something. Disney is seriously losing the ability of making their AP holders feel special.

How this effects me personally?
Purchasing APs had me visit more than I normally would considering we have to fly down. But, already having the tickets and getting nice rates at nice resorts.. we did it. We do love Disney.. but it's not an incentive to go as often anymore when the nicer perks and discounted rooms that we were accustomed to aren't there anymore. It's a substantial difference when last year I had $100 off per night for our deluxe resort room, and we stay for 2 weeks. No, I don't have to stay in a deluxe resort.. and no we don't have to stay for 2 weeks. But it's our preference. That's what we enjoy. Disney is very pricey... always have been. To me, paying full price isn't worth it. JMTC

Remember... I am not asking you to feel as I do. This is just how I feel. I am relaying to you that this is also how others feel too (now there are others that feel like discounts are their 'right'. We won't talk about those people).
I don't feel like I am being scewed by Disney... I just don't feel like I am being coddled anymore.... and I liked that feeling.
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Old 08-17-2006, 09:26 PM   #37
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Quote:
The point is that as AP holders we had gotten those discounts and perks in the past, and we were made to feel special
This is the comment I was questioning. Disney did not offer these past discounts to make you feel special, they gave them to book empty rooms.

It was simply economics, nothing more.

My confusion is how can receiving a discount (that was given to book empty rooms) make one feel special.

I can understand being disappointed that discounts are not as steep as the past few years. But those great discounts only happened due to a weak travel economy. The travel business (especially Disney) has recovered and they don't need to offer large AP discounts to fill rooms.

Disney discounted rooms because they were going to sit empty unless they did. They did not discount them out of any love for anyone or to make us feel good.

If you felt good when you got a discount it was not intentional on Disney's part.

Last edited by Sammie; 08-17-2006 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 08-17-2006, 09:39 PM   #38
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Disney makes me feel plenty special, when I'm on an AP or a 1-day ticket (and I've used those and everything in between). CM's don't treat me any differently, nor should they. We are all guests.

I think what Anc96 is talking about is that when discounts come more frequently it makes him/her feel "special" and choose Disney as their destination. I can understand that, as I live a dozen states away yet am an AP holder more than I'm not. I've been able to take a week's vacation to WDW for as little as $500 before for airfare and value resort; it's sure nice.

The odd thing is we are having this discussion when Disney just announced AP rates. It's not like they aren't available, it's just that they aren't a much better deal than the AAA rates.

However, the HUGE irony here is that the other people complaining about not being able to apply the code to their existing reservations do not see how they shot themselves in the foot.

Disney offers discounts when it has extra rooms to sell. If people book a room, Disney doesn't know you are waiting for a code; the more rooms people "pre-book" in this manner, the LESS CHANCE of discounts coming out. It's in a way ruining it for the people that the discounts are actually meant for, i.e. those making short-term travel plans that may not have gone otherwise.

Unfortunately, eventually this behavior will end to the lenient policies we know now. Eventually we won't have the great 5-day full refund policy on room-only rates, or the 1-night deposit if you forfeit, or even the ability to be able to not pay the balance until check-in. It's the same thing that many fear will happen to dining reservations : so many people don't show up, eventually they will require a credit card hold. Sure, Disney figures some people won't show up, just like they figure some people will apply a code to an existing reservation; however, when it because the norm to do so, we will see policy changes.

NED
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Old 08-17-2006, 09:42 PM   #39
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It's just disappointment when you have expectations of getting something.

To me it would be the same as going to Magic Kingdom and expecting Wishes to be that night and Disney cancelling it that day. Wishes isn't guaranteed but it doesn't stop me from being disappointed. Or my favorite ride being broken down for the length of my trip (not refurbished; that would be my own fault as they list rides under refurbishment). It's disappointing but none of these things are guaranteed.

I understand why Disney doesn't offer a discount. I know they aren't just being charitable in giving discounts. But that doesn't make me any less disappointed with the lack of discounts and price increases.

It hasn't ruined my trip or made me alter my plans for my upcoming trip. I just have to save more.
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Old 08-17-2006, 09:42 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anc96
I don't think that for years... "business was down for Disney" lol.
Actually, it was. Discounts like this didn't really happen ten years ago.

Like the rest of the travel industry, Disney saw a huge downturn after 9/11 (and things weren't so great before then).

The last two years, some AMAZING discounts have happened in the fall. This is because of Katrina, and the other severe storms the year before. People were not coming to Disney during hurricane season because they were scared. Hence all the discounts available from Sept-Nov both years.

For instance, Disney very uncharacteristically released some codes for the fall (the Oct/Nov/Dec rates everyone seemed to expect this year) as late as Septeber 29 last year. Usually discounts for that period are released long before that, but Disney had to go the extra mile because people were cancelling after watching Katrina on TV.

This year, things are looking up. No major storms yet (at least national-major). Disney's doing better than it has in many, many years. And it's not like we're talking about NO discount, just one no better than AAA. It's still the best deal on a room for that time frame.

NED
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Old 08-17-2006, 09:52 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anc96
I don't see a connection of this comment to anything I stated.



I don't think that for years... "business was down for Disney" lol.

.

Perhaps you should do some research. As a Disney Stockholder I read the annual statements and the "notes" It was DOWN....

Took a NOSE DIVE 9/11 and took until about last year to get back to pre-9/11. And that's the same period this "discount mania" began......
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Old 08-17-2006, 10:14 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammie
This is the comment I was questioning. Disney did not offer these past discounts to make you feel special, they gave them to book empty rooms.

It was simply economics, nothing more.

My confusion is how can receiving a discount (that was given to book empty rooms) make one feel special.
I don't believe that Disney was giving discounts to book empty rooms. AP rates have been available almost without fail forever (ok, not 'forever', but for the years we've been getting them), but Disney has not been desperately trying to book rooms all those years. These were PERKS given as a courtesy.. a reward... to lure us back.. I don't know.. but they were there, without huge gaps in time. I don't think they're suddenly overrun with guests either that they can't offer AP rates.

Economics... sure it is. It's just now they are getting greedy. Or at least it's more obvious that they are greedy.

If I get a discount for being "a member" so to speak... yes it makes me feel like I am an appreciated customer, it makes me feel special. But like I said, that's just me... and some others here on this board. You don't have to feel the same, or even understand. But you can't tell me that I don't feel this way nevertheless.
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Old 08-17-2006, 10:18 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverlandClub23
It's just disappointment when you have expectations of getting something.

To me it would be the same as going to Magic Kingdom and expecting Wishes to be that night and Disney cancelling it that day. Wishes isn't guaranteed but it doesn't stop me from being disappointed. Or my favorite ride being broken down for the length of my trip (not refurbished; that would be my own fault as they list rides under refurbishment). It's disappointing but none of these things are guaranteed.

I understand why Disney doesn't offer a discount. I know they aren't just being charitable in giving discounts. But that doesn't make me any less disappointed with the lack of discounts and price increases.

It hasn't ruined my trip or made me alter my plans for my upcoming trip. I just have to save more.
Thank You!!! That's exactly how we feel!!! We are still going. We are going for 2 weeks and when I figured it for NO DISCOUNTS, the AP was better. We have always used a AP and yes, we all liked the little perks. Did anyone ever use the special lounge at epcot? That's what I'm talking about. Not just the $$$$, we WERE made to feel special. That's how it was. Yes, Disney wants to make money, but wouldn't they make more if we were happy? Since there are "tons" of us, wouldn't people go more if they were treated "special" and then wouldn't they spend more?? Maybe not everyone, but I sure would!!!
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Old 08-17-2006, 10:25 PM   #44
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I think the issue is, Anc96, that you have invented that "membership" yourself. It doesn't exist.

And I'm sorry, but you are sorely, sorely mistaken about why Disney offers discounts. They offer it when they have rooms to fill. Have you not seen the hundreds of news reports about how bad the travel industry has been since 9/11? Have you not seen how many airlines have gone out of business or have been bailed out by the government? Did you not see Hurricane Katrina on TV last year and see how it adversely affected travel for the entire reigon?

Last fall was an extreme example. Reports from all over have Disney having the best year it's had since the 1990's. They gave you a discount, and I'm sorry but this whole "membership" idea you have created is simply not true; it was all of your invention. I can't tell you that you don't feel that way, but I can tell you your assumptions were not based on realities of how things work. A kid gets disapointed when they find out Santa Clause isn't real; that doesn't mean he ever really existed.

There are others in this thread who had unrealistic expectations as well. If it makes you choose another vacation destination, then so be it, as a consumer that is completely your choice. Your emotions are what they are, but the facts you base them on simply seem incorrect. Disney has not offered these types of discounts for very long, and it really didn't ramp up like this until after 9/11. They used to be occasional, and the problem is it has SPOILED people into thinking it's the way of the world.

Regardless of how anyone "feels", the simple, unrefutable facts are right there in your handly little "guide to benefits" sleeve they give you with your AP. If you choose not to vacation at Disney any more or not, that's something you need to figrue out for yourself. If you are so dissatisfied with how you feel Disney treats you based on your expectations (which are specificly incorrect based on your "benefits" guide), then it's totally your right to go elsewhere.

Wherever you choose, I do hope you have a magical time.

NED
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Old 08-17-2006, 10:30 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quartz7
Thank You!!! That's exactly how we feel!!! We are still going. We are going for 2 weeks and when I figured it for NO DISCOUNTS, the AP was better. We have always used a AP and yes, we all liked the little perks. Did anyone ever use the special lounge at epcot? That's what I'm talking about. Not just the $$$$, we WERE made to feel special. That's how it was. Yes, Disney wants to make money, but wouldn't they make more if we were happy? Since there are "tons" of us, wouldn't people go more if they were treated "special" and then wouldn't they spend more?? Maybe not everyone, but I sure would!!!
The last of the AP lounges closed a couple of years ago. They no longer exist.

I understand what you are saying, because I too am an AP holder who goes more often and spends more when there are discounts.

The thing is, we aren't typical. The vast, vast majority of Disney guests aren't AP holders. If they thought they were, then we'd see things change.

To me, one of the beauties of WDW is that you are the same, AP or 1-day ticket. We're all special there. I think what a lot of people (perhaps not specificly you), are substituting the word "special" for "entitled".

There are discounts out there, but there has been no severe weather or other incident this year to deter travel to the FL area, and by all accounts (of CM's who post on boards, Travel Agents, calls people have made to CRO) Disney's bookings are crazy-busy.

What incentive is there for Disney to offer a discount to people that have already booked rooms?

(Which, again, is people shooting themselves in the foot; making a ressie you can't keep without a discount because you can't afford it makes it look like to Disney that occupancy is up and there is no need to release further, deeper discounts.)

NED
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