Disney Information Station Logo

Go Back   The DIS Discussion Forums - DISboards.com > Disney Trip Planning Forums > disABILITIES!
Find Hotel Specials & DIScounts
 
facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS UpdatesDIS email updates
Register Chat FAQ Tickers Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read





Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-02-2006, 03:47 PM   #46
Chuck S
DVC Boards Co-Moderator
 
Chuck S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Seguin, Texas USA
Posts: 25,791
DISboards Moderator

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredkap
Chuck, you may not be familiar with the unique characteristics of a Segway. If going forward it bumps into someting, it stops immediately. The segway does not roll, it balances itself with the computers adjusting it 100 times per second. I have used a Segway in the most crowded areas where pedestrians can barely move at less than 1 mph and the Segway "goes with the flow." Friends have used their Segway at black tie affairs and weddings going through reception lines as well as buffet lines without incident.
But again, you are an experienced user. And still, it can stop automatically all it likes, but it still has to make contact before the auto systenm kicks in, and if that initial contact is at a high rate of speed, someone is very likely to get hurt. Folks that rent them would not be experienced users.
Quote:
There are various reasons why your concern about rental operations should not occur. I can not imagine that a rental operation would want to take the financial risk to rent to an individual who plans on illegally entering Disney posing as a disabled individual.
You do realize that many places in the country now have "Segway Tours." Evidently the financial risk is worth it, just as the financial risk of renting it for a jolly day at the parks would be to some company.
Quote:
Also, a not too experienced Disney member should be able to recognize the ability or lack thereof of the rider of a Segway. Finally, while many disabilities disappear on a Segway, there usually are clues that anyone familiar with disabilities would recognize. Disabled individuals using Segways range from those with MS, Parkinsons, spinal cord injuries (some that make it impossible to sit in a wheelchair), amputees, as well as heart/lung issues that often have the individual carrying oxygen with them.
True, but Disney doesn't say who can enter with a wheelchair or ECV, just most folks don't rent them because of the stigma. That may be changing as that awful article linked by Tarkus illustrates that the ECV is now becoming a "status symbol", do you think the Segway is far behind in becoming a "status symbol?"

Quote:
The San Diego Zoo has permitted Segway useage for almost two years without incident. The steep terrain of their property makes the easy control of a Segway ideal and needless to say, they have substantial crowds as well.
Do they limit it to only those with disabilities? If so, how?

Quote:
Disney is a great organization but it needs to accept Segway useage by the disabled community.
I haven't disagreed with that, I'm simply saying that there has to be a legal way, under ADA, to distinquish who truly needs to use one and who is a "Joyrider;" when you have the potential to have a high percentage of them in the parks.
__________________

DVC Member at OKW since 1992
Chuck S is offline  
Old 03-02-2006, 04:22 PM   #47
tarkus
I'm just here for the ride
 
tarkus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ponte Vedra, Fl
Posts: 113

You know what what I find interesting ?

I came onto the disney site to get info for family heading for the mouse.

They will be at the Yacht Club per my suggestion. Perfect location for them, older kids they do Epcot & MGM.

But I digress again........

What I found interesting is that I have been to the WDW site a billion times and never noticed the dis ABILITY (great name) forum.

Just as I never paid attention to handicap ramps, rest rooms etc. It's as if they weren't there.

Until I was in the chair.

My intention was not to bash Disney, as I said before they have always been a leader in this sort of thing, but to present the reasons I and others no longer can enjoy WDW.

No, I don't think going to theme parks is a God given right, just a simple pleasure.

I'm lucky as only a couple of places, and I travel extensively, have not allowed my Segway.

Oh, by the way, I never saw a Segway either until a therapist suggested one !

Zip-a-dee-doo-dah,
Alan
tarkus is offline  
|
The DIS
Register to remove

Join Date: 1997
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,000,000
Old 03-02-2006, 04:28 PM   #48
3kidsmommy
Mouseketeer
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 204

I have read this entire thread with interest...my dh has MS and just got his first mobility scooter. At that time, his neurologist mentioned a Segway, but because he has trouble even standing for short periods of time, we figured the scooter was a better bet. Really, I don't see the difference between the Segway and the scooter. My dh's scooter can go FAST. He switches it to low speed when he is in a populated area. Now, that said...I am CERTAIN there are people who abuse scooter/wheelchair use. I am certain Segway use would be no better on the abuse factor. Unfortunatley, this is something that will happen regardless of what mobility aide is used. I honestly think there needs to be some sort of proof of disability. Yes, that goes against the ADA, but I don't know many disabled people who would care to obtain a letter. Really, I don't think there IS a right answer here--if proof is required some people who ARE disabled are going to be mad...if proof is not required, no matter WHAT the mobility aide, there are going to be those who abuse the system.
3kidsmommy is offline  
Old 03-02-2006, 06:27 PM   #49
fredkap
Earning My Ears
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 28

The way a typical disabled Segway user would ride a machine, it would not hurt a person that they bumped into AND the typical disabled Segway user would not bump into someone.

Segway tours are supervised. You won't put a child on his first bicycle unsupervised and you shouldn't have someone learn how to ride a Segway unsupervised. A new Segway costs close to $5,000. You are suggesting that someone would want to rent Segways for an illegal use and that a Disney park would be oblivious to an idiot on a Segway?

The San Diego Zoo only permits disabiled individuals to use a Segway. I am not the San Diego Zoo, so I can't speak for them. I would assume that they ask the individuals that request to use a Segway if they are disabled, rely on their response and if they have any concerns then that individual is watched closely.

I certainly understand and appreciate your concerns. Could you imagine Disney saying no to everyone wanting to enter the parks with a wheelchair due to the potential of a wheelchair hurting another guest? The San Diego Zoo initially permitted Segways by the disabled community on a test basis of 90 days. I believe that Disney could try the same solution. I recently was with some of our nation's finest men that have lost their legs in Iraq. When one of these heroes shows up at Disney's entrance gates and is turned away, I would not want to be with Disney's public relations department.
fredkap is offline  
Old 03-02-2006, 07:15 PM   #50
LindsayDunn228
Quite a hunk of man, isn't he???
I laughed myself silly ... during the dancing
 
LindsayDunn228's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TN
Posts: 10,794

Tarkus, what level is your SCI and how long have you been injured?
LindsayDunn228 is offline  
Old 03-02-2006, 07:18 PM   #51
Accentuate+
Mouseketeer
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 199

What an interesting thread...and a great example of people holding very strong but conflicting opinions being able to actually have a discussion on the topic rather than a flame war.

I don't have any immediate need for a SegWay (okay, except I think they're cool) but I was wondering if anyone in the forum remembered the steps Disney went through when scooters were first introduced. There probably had to be alot of the same concerns. If I hadn't already seen that it wasn't that big a deal I'd probably be very concerned about novices renting scooters and scooting through crowded areas but it seems to work pretty well for the most part. The scooters may have been accepted easily but if not then the path taken by their advocates would probably be a good roadmap for those hoping for SegWay access.

As to the recreational user...if the rental options (park or offsite) were the same I do think you'd see a lot more people using them than you do the wheelchairs or ECVs. The fact that SegWay tours are a popular thing already lend credence to that. No one is paying extra and clamoring for reservations for a wheelchair or ECV tour and still people do abuse those. We were near a group of three riding ECVs and overheard their conversation with some other people..the ECV users were not only completely unhandicapped they were there to sell the ECVs - passing out cards etc. They sold one on the spot. I was The SegWays (especially until the 'new' wore off) would probably be wildly popular.

I very much agree that someone who truly needs this device and is a capable operator should be allowed to use it but I'm also convinced that plenty of people will abuse the option and if Disney tried to control it they'd probably end in court. Disney seems to really try to do everything possible to accommodate all guests, my guess if they're trying to figure out how to allow those with needs without turning the parks into a racetrack.
Accentuate+ is offline  
Old 03-02-2006, 07:41 PM   #52
tarkus
I'm just here for the ride
 
tarkus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ponte Vedra, Fl
Posts: 113

Quote:
Originally Posted by LindsayDunn228
Tarkus, what level is your SCI and how long have you been injured?
A year and a half.

I've sent you mail with the gory details.
tarkus is offline  
Old 03-02-2006, 07:47 PM   #53
LindsayDunn228
Quite a hunk of man, isn't he???
I laughed myself silly ... during the dancing
 
LindsayDunn228's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TN
Posts: 10,794

And I responded. Thank you.
LindsayDunn228 is offline  
Old 03-03-2006, 07:34 AM   #54
dclfun
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Moved to Orlando!
Posts: 5,670

I have a question.... how in the world would a quadriplegic with no arm/hand usage and little trunk support be able to operate a Segway? I ask because it was mentioned that quadriplegics have used them. I can't even imagine a paraplegic using one without braces or being strapped on somehow- how do you stand to maintain balance when you have no lower limb function? How do you then get on/off the Segway safely to get on an attraction or sit down somewhere ? Now for the ADA part- I believe what Lynda has to say- the ADA is shrinking it's definition of "disabled" and alot less people would qualify than those who think they do. Disabled placards and hangtags would start disappearing by the millions if physicians actually followed the requirements to qualify someone as disabled under the ADA. As a disabled person who would definitely qualify I have a problem showing paperwork to prove my disability ( although someone could look at me and tell) because it does erode my rights and privacy. Why give away a protection afforded by the ADA? It's the same with my service dog. She has her certification card attached to her vest "just in case", not that anyone's asked to see it, and I know it's not necessary for her to wear or carry it. I feel fortunate to not have to be challenged everywhere I go to see if I truly can have the things I need to just do the things everyone else takes for granted. That said, if Alan and others need a Segway to afford them mobility, then I hope the status of the Segway as an approved mobility device will advance for those protected under the ADA.---Kathy
dclfun is offline  
Old 03-03-2006, 08:12 AM   #55
Chuck S
DVC Boards Co-Moderator
 
Chuck S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Seguin, Texas USA
Posts: 25,791
DISboards Moderator

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredkap
A new Segway costs close to $5,000. You are suggesting that someone would want to rent Segways for an illegal use and that a Disney park would be oblivious to an idiot on a Segway?
There is nothing illegal about renting Segways, is there? There certainly isn't anything ilegal about renting ECVs and Wheelchairs to someone without any type of proof that they need one. Is there such a thing as an "Illegal Use" of a Segway? What I am saying is, there is no way for the Zoo or Disney to screen as to whether that Segway user is actually using the Segway for medical needs under the current ADA. Because of that, they cannot make individual decisions about who is allowed or not allowed to enter the parks with a Segway. If they allow one, they must allow all, just as they do with wheelchairs and ECVs. Do you not see the potential for abuse? Do you expect Disney to have wheelchair, ECV and Segway police checking everyone for a disability? Again, I think Disney should allow Segway use for those people with disabilities that need them, but I also think the ADA needs to make some changes to allow some type of verification that the person actually needs a Segway.

And I'd still like to know just how the Zoo legally determines who is disabled and able to use a Segway vs. those that may have one just for fun.
__________________

DVC Member at OKW since 1992

Last edited by Chuck S; 03-03-2006 at 08:19 AM.
Chuck S is offline  
Old 03-03-2006, 08:15 AM   #56
fredkap
Earning My Ears
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 28

The two gentlemen that I know both broke their necks and are incomplete quadriplegics. They can stand and walk for short distances, both use canes. Standing is far better for their overall health than sitting all day. The cost of the Segway is incidental to how it has changed their lifes.

FWIW I also know a young coed that has a rare neurological problem that has caused her to have zero sense of balance. She can't stand without holding on to something. Prior to her receiving a Segway she used a scooter. Her Dad told me that using a Segway her disability disappears and it is the first time in her life that people did not realize she has a disability.
fredkap is offline  
Old 03-03-2006, 08:31 AM   #57
fredkap
Earning My Ears
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 28

Chuck, there is nothing wrong with renting Segways for personal enjoyment. However, if someone were to rent Segways and said to go to Disney and lie to them that you are disabled that would be a huge mistake. If they were to rent Segways to inappropriately trained individuals and said use it in a crowded envronment as you learn how to ride it, that too would be very foolish.

The only change to the policy would be that someone from Disney's staff should ask a guest arriving on a Segway if they have a disability (Most disabilities will be obvious, most guests won't be shy about saying that they have MS or post polio syndrom etc). As I said above, Disney should try a trial period. They certainly will document all of the pluses and minuses. To ban Segways out of fear of the unknown is unreasonable.
fredkap is offline  
Old 03-03-2006, 08:56 AM   #58
Chuck S
DVC Boards Co-Moderator
 
Chuck S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Seguin, Texas USA
Posts: 25,791
DISboards Moderator

But under ADA guidelines, Disney isn't ALLOWED to ask, are they? You honestly don't think individuals would lie to Disney to gain access with a Segway? Heck, they try to use other peoples tickets, rent wheelchairs and scooters without a disability, lie about when their actual birthdate to get a 50-cent Birthday button from Guest relations, the list is almost endless.
__________________

DVC Member at OKW since 1992
Chuck S is offline  
Old 03-03-2006, 09:06 AM   #59
dj2
all my little ducks in a row...
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,050

there's no need for a bicycle license, but a segway is motorized. what are the pro's and con's of having segway users licensed, such as motorcycle users are?
dj2 is offline  
Old 03-03-2006, 09:11 AM   #60
fredkap
Earning My Ears
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 28

Disney can ask if they have a disability. They cannot ask the guest to specify what the disability is. As you admit, most organizations can tolerate some overly pushy and inappropriate guests. To deny entrance to those who truly need a Segway because of perceived possible abuses does not seem reasonable.
fredkap is offline  
Closed Thread



Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS Updates
GET OUR DIS UPDATES DELIVERED BY EMAIL



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:10 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Copyright © 1997-2014, Werner Technologies, LLC. All Rights Reserved.

You Rated this Thread: