Who won't settle for anything less than legal?

[Costumesaremylife]

To all the folks waiting to get married. I only hope that you get what you wish. Nothing is greater than happily married couples.

[ECurto]

Originally Posted by JennyMominRI

It's not a religious term.. That may be the claim of some people who are religious but marriage is esentially a civil contract between 2 people. Sometimes it's also blessed by a religion. Sometimes its not..Civil Marriages have existed for hundreds if not thousands of years..In the US a couple can have a civil marriage and not have a religious one..On the other hand,if you go to your temple and get married by a Rabbi,but don't get a Marriage license from the state,you are not married legally. Now,I don't believe the state has any right to say who can and cannot enter into a legal contract with someone else. .Churches have a right to refuse to perform a ceremony they don't agree with.. There are plenty on Non-religious people who want to be married.. Making marriage religious only will deny athiests and agnostics the right to marry

Hey Jenny,

Glad that other thread is closed. I just wanted to clear up what I meant for you. I wasnt speaking about what jewish believe "about shelfish". That was a cathloic reference. And when i said it was a health guide, i mean alot of things in the bible were written to keep people healthy. Such as "dont eat shellfish". It was also my belief this was the same in judism with no meat and cheese together...and b/c of the health issue involved of that time. This is what i learned when going for my masters in psyc. But maybe I am wrong.

[JennyMominRI]

Originally Posted by ECurto

Hey Jenny,

Glad that other thread is closed. I just wanted to clear up what I meant for you. I wasnt speaking about what jewish believe "about shelfish". That was a cathloic reference. And when i said it was a health guide, i mean alot of things in the bible were written to keep people healthy. Such as "dont eat shellfish". It was also my belief this was the same in judism with no meat and cheese together...and b/c of the health issue involved of that time. This is what i learned when going for my masters in psyc. But maybe I am wrong.

It's different but the thing you need to realize is that most of the time,the bible is taught with a Christian slant..It's to be expected when the majority of people in the US are Christian.. Kosher laws are for the most part about respect for life,all life not just human life. When you eat meat you eat an animal . It died to be on your table .Kosher laws help to restrict the amount of meat you eat.. It also helps to turn the mundane act of eating into something holy. It turns you table into an Altar. Animals must be killed in what was/is considered a quick and less painful way.. Regarding meat and dairy.This comes from a verse in the bible about not cooking a calf in his mothers milk..IT would be cruel to an animal to cook it's young in the milk that is meant to nurture it..You are right. Things have changed. Most people don't farm anymore and aren't going to cook a calf in it's mother milk, But the moral issues brought up in Kosher laws are still important. Christianity has deemed Kosher laws,among other things as uneccessary..One way of doing this is by taking Kosher laws,which ARE moral laws and turning them into something else..Something that's no longer valid like food safety issues.. It's to bad..There was no need to change the meaning or reasoning for Kosher laws,as non-Jews were never expected to follow them in the first place.

[ECurto]

Thank you for clearing that up. See we learn something new everyday.

[ECurto]

Well here is proff of what we all face everyday.

"joeyrulesall says:

I read all the new posts not by section , just by clicking new posts. I dont
care what he does privatley im just sickened that he has to pick a childrens
theme park to marry a man. I believe in protecting children from sick things ,
not stirring!"

Atleast the mods over on the wedding board cleared it up. It just makes me sick. Atleast we have friends on the other boards looking out for us!

[JennyMominRI]

Originally Posted by ECurto

Well here is proff of what we all face everyday.

"joeyrulesall says:

I read all the new posts not by section , just by clicking new posts. I dont
care what he does privatley im just sickened that he has to pick a childrens
theme park to marry a man. I believe in protecting children from sick things ,
not stirring!"

Atleast the mods over on the wedding board cleared it up. It just makes me sick. Atleast we have friends on the other boards looking out for us!

And this is why Separate But Equal,IE. civil unions not marriage is
unnacceptable...GWB and his ilk don't get to claim marriage for the religious only,or the morally acceptable .You deserve the SAME rights as everyone else,and not a separate drinking fountain..Civil Unions give people that hate you one more thing to hold over your head and claim that they are better then you,that their relationship is somehow,better and more special than yours.

[Ziva]

Originally Posted by ECurto

P.s. You can see some of our ceremony pics here... and i will posting more in the "Ceremony" thread in this board tonight.

Our Ceremony

Post where the rest of the pics are

Beautiful pics, your both just gorgeous. Congrats on celebrating 7 years, hope you have many more together!

[SeattleRedBear]

Originally Posted by JennyMominRI

And this is why Serperate But Equal (ie, civil unions not marriage) is unnacceptable...GWB and his ilk don't get to claim marriage for the religious only,or the morally acceptable .You deserve the SAME rights as everyone else,and not a seperate drinking fountain..Civil Unions give people that hate you one more thing to hold over your head and claim that they are better then you,that their relationship is somehow,better and more special than yours.

Jenny -- Many, many thanks for these strong and articulate words. My feelings exactly.

[JennyMominRI]

Originally Posted by SeattleRedBear

Jenny -- Many, many thanks for these strong and articulate words. My feelings exactly.

Thanks . I'm not gay but I've lived with AIDS for 15 years. As such I have seen firsthand the flat out discrimination that gay people deal with on a daily basis,and it sickens me. I have seen PWA's(people with AIDS) denied their partners as they died..I have seen a couple of them lose homes etc,because they don't have any legal protections..I've seen more than a few who died alone, because their family disowned them. I really belive the AIDS epidemic in this country is in part caused by homophobia. I was infected by my husband who is bisexual..His family tells other that he got AIDS from IV drug use..They would rather have a drug abusing son than a gay/bisexual son. It will happen to you.Some day you will have the same rights as everyone else..Some day this country will look back with shame,at the way they treated gay people,in much the same way we look back at the way we treated NA's and black people.

[Saxton]

Jenny - you are right on the mark with your posts. Separate but equal does not exist and history has proven that fact. Separate yes, but there was never any equality or the civil rights movement wouldn't have taken on such force. I can see that if the conservatives somehow would 'allow' civil unions it would be deemed a sub-standard relationship with limited rights. But realistically I doubt that it will ever happen and true marriage is just a dream. Here's something interesting that I just read from Coretta Scott King, who I believe spoke with a quiet dignity and courage:

"For many years now, I have been an outspoken supporter of civil and human rights for gay and lesbian people," Coretta Scott King said at the 25th anniversary luncheon for Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund. "Many of these courageous men and women were fighting for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their own, and I salute their contributions."
"I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people, but I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, 'Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.' I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people."

And I believe that one line - "injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" sums it all up. She understood what discrimination was, she experienced it first hand.

Eric - great photos!!! And I read your posts on the other thread. I posted on one about a week ago but I think that whole thread was deleted (thankfully!). It always amazes how many narrow minded people there really are.

[Viki]

This June Gwen and I will be "married" twenty years, but with no ceremony to mark our committment to each other. Ironically, I've presided at well over twenty marriages, gay and straight, legal and not so much. We'll wait until it's legal where we live. In the meantime we've raised two children and three dogs.

And, btw, it's true that there is nothing inherently religious about marriage - unless you are RC, in which case it is viewed as a sacrament (a ritual religious action to which there is a specific promise attached). Luther was clear that weddings are civil matters, the rules of which are dictated by the state.

[hematite153]

For us, marriage is predominantly a religious covenant. However, the legal component of civil marriage also has numerous implications for many. (In fact, we know a straight couple who chose to marry religiously but delay the civil filing until after it had been legalized for same-sex couples as well.)

From my perspective, the GLBT community is fighting on two fronts--religious and civil. The battle for religious marriage takes place within each religion rather than through imposition from the state. Some people feel more strongly about one than the other and tend to discount the other. However, I feel that both struggles are necessary.

We were married in our Christian church (which has been performing same-sex marriages for 13 years) in Canada. The opportunity to celebrate with our friends, family, church community and to have our commitment legally recognized feels so much like a basic human right that I feel deeply for those without these choices.

(I know that many of you have decided not to travel for marriage. However, if there are lurkers who want information you are welcome to send me a pm.)

[Empare]

Weddings don't have to be religious though. I am happily married to a wonderful man. I have always been more of a pagan type of person so, that's how my wedding went. I was married outside in a beautiful meadow. My family all said quotes from some of my favorite stories, including one from winnie the pooh. I am very thankful that I was able to marry the one I love. My husband's parents are VERY religious and difficult. It took them a long time to actually decide to come to the wedding! Can you believe that? They were going to miss the wedding of their only son just because we were not getting married in a church! I'm sure they would never talk to me again if they found out I was bi. I believe ALL relationships should be treated with respect and kindness.

[mrsdisneyfan]

I would like to make a comment on this thread and if it comes out wrong please forgive me. I am 35 years old, married and straight. I feel that gays not being able to legally marry is absurd.

I cannot image the feelings of some one who is in a loving relationship for 1 2 or 20 years and is told they cannot be in a hospital room with thier loved one. Not having any say in medical or financial matters just because you are gay. The thought of my MIL having a say over my husbands well being, God forbid anything ever happened to him, and me not being consulted makes me sick.

I fully support EQUAL rights when it comes to marriage and I mean the exact as any straight couple.

And if I hear the phrase "slippery slope" one more time when this is publicly discussed I think I may commit violence.

I just don't understand the people who are against this. The ones who quote the bible bother me the most. (I am a Christian.) What difference does it make to anybody except the ones getting married. Your life was no affected when I got married and my life is not going to be affected when you get married. So why does anybody feel threatened by this.

I hope every day that this injustice is fixed.

Again, if this seems like a big worthless ramble I apologize but I feel very strongly.

[ChrizJen]

Originally Posted by mrsdisneyfan

Again, if this seems like a big worthless ramble I apologize but I feel very strongly.

mrsdisneyfan: Not worthless at all! It's very encouraging to know that despite what our "leaders" would have us believe, there really are straight people in our nation who support our rights! They would so like us to think that the majority of Americans are opposed to equal rights. I think that it's more the other way around in actuality. And when people like yourself speak out, it really means something!

Thanks for your comments!
-Christal