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Old 10-16-2012, 12:47 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Mad-Jasper View Post
http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/par...lloween-party/

Mickey's Not-So-Scary Halloween Party is a Halloween-themed special event held on select dates in Magic Kingdom theme park. Purchase of an additional event admission ticket is required to attend Mickey's Not-So-Scary Halloween Party.


In addition to many favorite Disney attractions, Mickey's Not-So-Scary Halloween Party is filled with special entertainment, including:

If there was not an expectation that most attractions would be open and functioning, then why not close all the rides and make it just about the party? Why? Because no one would pay $60 for a ticket just to walk around and grab candy.

The primary reason people go to WDW is to ride rides. Don't believe me? Look at the lines. By your standard, MK could close all the rides but the PeopleMover and it would be acceptible for the MNSSHP. THAT doesn't fly.
If that's all the party was (walking around and grabbing candy), I'd agree with you. But there are parades, shows and fireworks that are ONLY presented during the party, plus many more characters (in Halloween costumes) that you can ONLY see during the party.

If you're saying that the "primary" reason people go to WDW is to ride rides, I would say that the "primary" reason people go to MNSSHP is to see the special parade and fireworks (and to be able to wear a costume to the MK). That's a huge part of what that $60 buys. It's not just about the candy.

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Old 10-16-2012, 01:11 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Mad-Jasper View Post
http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/par...lloween-party/

Mickey's Not-So-Scary Halloween Party is a Halloween-themed special event held on select dates in Magic Kingdom theme park. Purchase of an additional event admission ticket is required to attend Mickey's Not-So-Scary Halloween Party.


In addition to many favorite Disney attractions, Mickey's Not-So-Scary Halloween Party is filled with special entertainment, including:

If there was not an expectation that most attractions would be open and functioning, then why not close all the rides and make it just about the party? Why? Because no one would pay $60 for a ticket just to walk around and grab candy.

The primary reason people go to WDW is to ride rides. Don't believe me? Look at the lines. By your standard, MK could close all the rides but the PeopleMover and it would be acceptible for the MNSSHP. THAT doesn't fly.
Interestingly, most attraction wait times are nearly non-existent during MNSSHP. How many attractions are on Main Street and the Hub, where the bulk of the crowd is most of the night?
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:21 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Mad-Jasper View Post
http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/par...lloween-party/

Mickey's Not-So-Scary Halloween Party is a Halloween-themed special event held on select dates in Magic Kingdom theme park. Purchase of an additional event admission ticket is required to attend Mickey's Not-So-Scary Halloween Party.


In addition to many favorite Disney attractions, Mickey's Not-So-Scary Halloween Party is filled with special entertainment, including:

If there was not an expectation that most attractions would be open and functioning, then why not close all the rides and make it just about the party? Why? Because no one would pay $60 for a ticket just to walk around and grab candy.

The primary reason people go to WDW is to ride rides. Don't believe me? Look at the lines. By your standard, MK could close all the rides but the PeopleMover and it would be acceptible for the MNSSHP. THAT doesn't fly.
In your attempt to refute my shopping example, you mentioned brought up the clothing store advertising the dressing rooms as a main attraction. This was supposedly to support your belief that the rides are the main attractions at the party. Unfortunately, this is NOT true. It doesn't really matter why people go to Disney World. It doesn't really matter if you, personally, believe that the rides are the main attraction of the party. That really is irrelevant. What IS relevant is what Disney actually advertises. They do advertise attractions. But being that attractions are just generally mentioned, while specific things ARE listed, it is fair to say that Disney is advertising the unique features offered only during the party as the main attraction. What you, personally, view to be the main attraction doesn't mean that is what Disney is advertising as the main attraction. People aren't only paying $60 for the rides. They are paying for admission to a special event not available to regular ticket holders. If the rides were the main reason why people wanted to go, then save yourself the $60 and just go to the park during the day. Disney provided exactly what was advertised: many attractions, the parade, the fireworks, the candy, the characters in costume, and the lighting/theme/music. Services rendered. By your logic, I should just expect a refund any time even ONE ride is closed. After all, the rides are the main attraction.

I am not saying one can't be disappointed about rides going down. But there is a big difference between disappointment, and claiming service wasn't received....even though one took advantage of everything that was advertised.
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:26 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Mad-Jasper View Post
http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/par...lloween-party/

Mickey's Not-So-Scary Halloween Party is a Halloween-themed special event held on select dates in Magic Kingdom theme park. Purchase of an additional event admission ticket is required to attend Mickey's Not-So-Scary Halloween Party.


In addition to many favorite Disney attractions, Mickey's Not-So-Scary Halloween Party is filled with special entertainment, including:

If there was not an expectation that most attractions would be open and functioning, then why not close all the rides and make it just about the party? Why? Because no one would pay $60 for a ticket just to walk around and grab candy.

The primary reason people go to WDW is to ride rides. Don't believe me? Look at the lines. By your standard, MK could close all the rides but the PeopleMover and it would be acceptible for the MNSSHP. THAT doesn't fly.
If people just wanted to ride the rides they could get a day ticket and spend all day there....


Couple of points for that night....

Both Parades happen

Candy was available

Most Rides were open (I personally went on Space Mountain, BTMR, Buzz Lightyear, and Pirates) There was little to no wait for all rides.

Characters were out.

Fireworks were fantastic as well as the Villains show.

The MNSSHP is just that....a Party...ride are open, but very few people attending spend their time on the rides....they pay that premium for an opportunity to dress up, Trick or Treat in a safe, well decorated environment, see shows that are only available during the Party. and have a unique opportunity for meeting rare characters....
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:26 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by mesaboy2 View Post
Interestingly, most attraction wait times are nearly non-existent during MNSSHP. How many attractions are on Main Street and the Hub, where the bulk of the crowd is most of the night?

Not to mention that all you have to do is take a look at the threads on this forum regarding the party... compare how many questions there are about the rides to how many there are about the characters, fireworks, headless horseman, candy stations, costumes, etc. It is fair to say the major draw of the party for the majority of the people are the unique events offered only during that time...not the attractions.
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:17 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by mesaboy2 View Post
Interestingly, most attraction wait times are nearly non-existent during MNSSHP. How many attractions are on Main Street and the Hub, where the bulk of the crowd is most of the night?
I've been to several MNSSHPs and I have found the wait times comparable to the wait times of the duration of my trip, if not longer.
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:32 PM   #97
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I've been to several MNSSHPs and I have found the wait times comparable to the wait times of the duration of my trip, if not longer.
That is not my experience at all, and I think you would be hard-pressed to find many other posters who would say the same as you. The only exception I can think of might be HM.
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:38 PM   #98
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In your attempt to refute my shopping example, you mentioned brought up the clothing store advertising the dressing rooms as a main attraction. This was supposedly to support your belief that the rides are the main attractions at the party. Unfortunately, this is NOT true. It doesn't really matter why people go to Disney World. It doesn't really matter if you, personally, believe that the rides are the main attraction of the party. That really is irrelevant. What IS relevant is what Disney actually advertises. They do advertise attractions. But being that attractions are just generally mentioned, while specific things ARE listed, it is fair to say that Disney is advertising the unique features offered only during the party as the main attraction. What you, personally, view to be the main attraction doesn't mean that is what Disney is advertising as the main attraction. People aren't only paying $60 for the rides. They are paying for admission to a special event not available to regular ticket holders. If the rides were the main reason why people wanted to go, then save yourself the $60 and just go to the park during the day. Disney provided exactly what was advertised: many attractions, the parade, the fireworks, the candy, the characters in costume, and the lighting/theme/music. Services rendered. By your logic, I should just expect a refund any time even ONE ride is closed. After all, the rides are the main attraction.

I am not saying one can't be disappointed about rides going down. But there is a big difference between disappointment, and claiming service wasn't received....even though one took advantage of everything that was advertised.
People are paying $60 to attend a special event at a theme park in which rides are a main attraction. Again, close the rides and sell MNSSHP tickets for $60 for 5 hours and see how many people show up. I'd be curious to know, but I'm betting a fraction of the attendance.

By my logic, due to the premuim price of part attendance at WDW, premium service should be rendered. Rides go down. I've probably spent 70+ days at WDW total since 2005 and there has never been a day that a ride, if not multiple rides, was not down for routine maintence, refurbishment or malfunction - and sometime's idiot riders . But over the course of a trip that last several days, this is to be expected. The malfunctions over a 5 hour period as the OP described, IMO, is unnacceptible. And by unnacceptible, I mean it happens. Maybe it was just a unfortunate night.... maybe WDW slipping on maintenance.... maybe the OP is full of it. But if it is the former 2, it is reasonable, again IMO, for the OP expect replacement tickets to a MNSSHP or free 1-day park admission.

WDW is always been about the "magical" experience. And that can be described in many ways by many different people. But, I go to WDW with the expectation that ride uptime will be maximized, CMs will be extremely nice and helpful, Princesses will always smile and wave and Chip and Dale will give a little extra squeeze when the hug my daughter. And the vast majority of the time, I have not been disappointed. But if what I described above wasn't part of the experience as a whole, I'd drop $120 on APs to Wild Adventures for me and DD and be done with it.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:26 PM   #99
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You know there are posters that will freak if one ride closes down for refurb during the week they happen to be on vacation. And watch out if it goes longer than planned.... People have had their theories on the Yeti for some time...from why it can't be fixed to how long it would take to fix it. Regardless, there would be no shortage of people complaining about it if they had to shut it down for maintenance.

Besides, what would you refer to as "back in the day"? How far back are we talking? Because it is also easy to say that things might have been easier to maintain when there was only 1 park. Or 2. Or 3. Or when there were only a few hotels as opposed to several. Or when there weren't as many attractions. The list can go on. Yes, I get that there is some greed...which can be found everywhere...but there is also a very relevant issue of people expecting more and more without having to pay the price they do, and to have everything available 100% of the time. That kind of logic is, well, illogical.
Rehabs are part of maintenance. Fixing broken animatronics is part of maintenance. How much maintenance could be done if CEOs only took 20 million in total compensation versus 52 million? (answer: about 32 million dollars' worth)

One park had enough staff for one park. Two parks have enough staff for two. Etc. As far as it goes, each park should have enough staff, and central offices should have enough staff, all to do their jobs as required. If maintenance isn't getting done, or is deferred not due to seasonal timing but due to staffing, then there's a problem. And you don't build and staff hotels you can't reasonably fill. They're self-sustaining (if not profit centers).

As for prices, I can recall paying $28 or so for a one-day ticket back in the '80's. What does a one-day, one-park ticket cost these days...?
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:39 PM   #100
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You mean also back in the day when Disney World had half as many hotels, one less park, no thrill rides, EMH were just instituted, after-hours parties and events didn't exist, and there was only fraction of the daily attendance it has now? Back before there was no FastPass so demand on rides and services was diminished greatly? You mean back before then?
yep. And in point of fact, the E-ticket rides ran at full capacity back then, too -- you just had to stand in line the whole time instead of running off while your FP aged...

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What I think is people hear how much somebody makes, compare it to what they make, and figure that since it's dramatically more, they're obviously sucking money away from the things that they enjoy. But that's not how running a business works. I don't expect somebody who runs the entire Disney brand to take a salary of $250k a year, and there's no reason that somebody who's the head of a profitable company shouldn't get rich doing it.
I don't want to get into a discussion of reasonable compensation, but like the supreme court justice is quoted saying, "I can't define obscenity, but I know it when I see it." How much maintenance could be done for 32 million dollars?

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But beside the point, Disney is an incredibly well maintained park on it's own, and when you compare it to other amusement/theme parks, it's second-to-none. And when you have rides that shuttle thousands of people an hour through in oppressive heat from 8am to 12:30 or from 9am to 2:30am with a reopening again at 8, rides are going to break down. I dare say most major equipment that runs for 16+ hours a day is going to break down, and since a breakdown on many rides means they have to do inspections for safety, not only for liability purposes, but it's what's required by law... I dare say people expect a tad too much. Especially since people aren't willing to cut Disney any slack on the matter.
Not like it used to be. Admittedly, the parks are running longer now than they used to, but I haven't seen them try anything creative to fix that. For example, "rolling maintenance," where on one EMH night, Fantasyland is closed, then the next, Tomorrowland, the Adventureland, etc. As for expectations, why wouldn't someone who paid an average of $45 per day for admission expect that EVERYthing is working? After all, they don't offer discounted tickets when major rides are in rehab...

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For example, here we have a thread born of the fact that they couldn't continue the party that was advertised to end at midnight after midnight... I'm going to guess the park had people in it until at least 1am, maybe later. Nighttime is when all of this work on rides and the park occurs. If people are there, they can't do the work they need to. So here we have one complaint that the park has spots that need attention, but here we also have the other person complaining that they can't stay into the hours where that maintenance is supposed to occur. Disney announces that the EMH in the PM are going to be cut by an hour and EMH as a whole are going to be reduced, and the Disney universe practically implodes from the scandal... The fact that allows Disney to do the maintaining that is needed, add the extra features that people want, and give them a chance to rest and maintain rides to increase reliability and reduce down and refurb times doesn't matter... The only thing people hear is that EMH is being reduced, and "obviously" it's to pad somebody's bonus.
Bottom line: you can't please everyone. I'd offer you could please more if you'd keep your rides running more consistently.

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I get that it's people's vacations, that they want to have fun, and that people spend thousands of dollars to go... But I think people that for people at Disney, it's a business, and for CMs, it's a job, it's a part of their everyday life. It's not unreasonable, evil, or a sign of the decay of society that Disney wants to make a few bucks, nor is it the end of the world as we know it when PotC breaks down a couple times, especially if, instead of breaking down, they'd announced that it was going down for refurb for two weeks and people would have freaked about that. Pirates was closed for one day, one day, on the 9th and there were at least two threads talking about how that ruined vacations. Disney can't both leave rides open, have them running for extended hours, not close them to be refurbed, yet have everything working 100% of the time with no breakdowns. Yet that's expected to be the standard they maintain.
Again, expectations. People expect a working park when they get there. If WDW built those expectations, then can't deliver because they're running the rides into the ground, whose fault is that?

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As for the CMs, we saw CMs there handing out candy at midnight and were waving goodbye to us as we walked out of the turnstiles there the next morning at 8am with their big Mickey hands, waving to us as we walked in the next day. The person who gave us our Sorcerer card at 11pm was the one who gave us our packs the next morning at like 9am. Maybe we can cut them the tiniest of breaks when they have a not-so-magical moment? The last trip we made a few weeks ago, we made efforts to make the day magical for CMs... You know what a difference it made not only for them, but for our enjoyment of the parks?
God bless the CMs. The work very hard for very little pay, and if it weren't for them, Disney might as well sell WDW to Sick Flags. I love 'em, and I always try to a) smile and be friendly, and b) ask as little of them as possible.

We're actually closer in our positions than your comments would suggest. My point is that management is making a conscious decision to pay executives a lot more than they used to -- and substantial amounts of money at that! -- money that could be used to enhance the guest experience, which is one of the foundation bricks that DL and WDW were originally built upon.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:05 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Mad-Jasper View Post
http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/par...lloween-party/

Mickey's Not-So-Scary Halloween Party is a Halloween-themed special event held on select dates in Magic Kingdom theme park. Purchase of an additional event admission ticket is required to attend Mickey's Not-So-Scary Halloween Party.


In addition to many favorite Disney attractions, Mickey's Not-So-Scary Halloween Party is filled with special entertainment, including:

If there was not an expectation that most attractions would be open and functioning, then why not close all the rides and make it just about the party? Why? Because no one would pay $60 for a ticket just to walk around and grab candy.

The primary reason people go to WDW is to ride rides. Don't believe me? Look at the lines. By your standard, MK could close all the rides but the PeopleMover and it would be acceptible for the MNSSHP. THAT doesn't fly.
It's not Disney's responsibility that/when people don't comprehend simple definitions. Many and most don't indicate the same proportion. Most indicates a majority. The website doesn't indicate or imply in any way that a majority of the Magic Kingdom attractions would be open during the MNSSHPs. Many simply means some number more than a few but less than half.

Frankly, none of my favorite attractions are open during the parties. Doesn't mean I'd have valid grounds to complain to Guest Services, or to know "what they're going to do about it"; and it certainly isn't a valid reason to dispute the charge for the tickets with my credit card company.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:46 PM   #102
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People are paying $60 to attend a special event at a theme park in which rides are a main attraction. Again, close the rides and sell MNSSHP tickets for $60 for 5 hours and see how many people show up. I'd be curious to know, but I'm betting a fraction of the attendance.

By my logic, due to the premuim price of part attendance at WDW, premium service should be rendered. Rides go down. I've probably spent 70+ days at WDW total since 2005 and there has never been a day that a ride, if not multiple rides, was not down for routine maintence, refurbishment or malfunction - and sometime's idiot riders . But over the course of a trip that last several days, this is to be expected. The malfunctions over a 5 hour period as the OP described, IMO, is unnacceptible. And by unnacceptible, I mean it happens. Maybe it was just a unfortunate night.... maybe WDW slipping on maintenance.... maybe the OP is full of it. But if it is the former 2, it is reasonable, again IMO, for the OP expect replacement tickets to a MNSSHP or free 1-day park admission.

WDW is always been about the "magical" experience. And that can be described in many ways by many different people. But, I go to WDW with the expectation that ride uptime will be maximized, CMs will be extremely nice and helpful, Princesses will always smile and wave and Chip and Dale will give a little extra squeeze when the hug my daughter. And the vast majority of the time, I have not been disappointed. But if what I described above wasn't part of the experience as a whole, I'd drop $120 on APs to Wild Adventures for me and DD and be done with it.
Again, it does not matter what YOU view to be the main attraction. It is what Disney advertises. Disney generally says many attractions in one sentence. The rest of the description focuses on the actual purpose of the party...the main attraction of which the party exists in the first place: special and unique offerings that are not offered during regular park hours. In order to enjoy those unique experiences, you must buy the ticket. If the rides are the biggest (main) thing about the party, then Disney would focus on advertising that..."hey, spend even MORE money to ride the rides you were riding just a couple of hours ago!" But that isn't what Disney is doing. They are offering the rides, but making a point to show that the reason you are spending the money is to experience the offerings not provided during regular hours. You can expect things all you want. You can be happy or disappointed with the outcome of those expectations all you want. It does not change the fact that Disney provided exactly what they said they would. Your perception of things is not the same as actual service provided. In your example of computer problems, you presented a pleased and displeased customer. Well guess what? No matter what opinions those customers had, they still received service and still had the problem solved, which is what the helpdesk said they would do. Service provided. Perception of the service does not change that the service was actually provided.

Perhaps attendance would drop if no attractions were available at all. I don't know. It obviously hasn't been tested to guarantee that to happen, but I wouldn't doubt it. That doesn't mean, however, that it makes the attractions the main thing of the party. Because how many people do you know would buy park tickets, and then buy an additional $60 ticket if they dropped everything else the party offered and only did rides? Just taking your scenario in reverse. I am fairly certain very few people would take them up on it...because they know full well they can ride those same rides during regular park hours without having to pay even more for it, especially when they already offer extended hours for free. And when they did charge for it (E-ride Night), it was less than $20 ($15 or a bit less I think?). That means people who are attending the party are doing so for well more than just the ability to get on some rides. We must also take note that Disney does not list which rides are open on the site. So if I simply see "many rides" when looking at the site, should I throw a fit if Jungle Cruise isn't open? Because it's not during party hours...and I happen to like that ride.

If someone is concerned that a particular ride isn't open during the party, they can feel free to ask why that is the case. And don't get me wrong, I am not saying that someone should want the rides to be operational if they are open to actually ride. But to refute charges with the credit card? No. Absolutely not. The OP received the service that was advertised and paid for. She even stuck around to the party's end to continuing receiving such service (and then complained here because the service wasn't extended past the party's hours). It makes no logical sense to stay for a party's entirety and then claim you didn't receive the service. That is basically saying you didn't get to do anything they said you'd be able to do...and by the OP's admission: she did (and I won't get into the fact that her claim of POTC being down the entire time had been refuted, and others here have mentioned having no problems on the other rides). Even if there were a few hiccups, she was able to do these things. The real issue here isn't that she was trying to resolve it with Disney...people have encouraged her to write to them about her experiences. The problem is that she said she wanted to refute the credit card charges. That's absurd. Contact Disney if you feel you deserve compensation (though I personally don't believe she does). But refuting the charges is ridiculous.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:50 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by larryz View Post
As for prices, I can recall paying $28 or so for a one-day ticket back in the '80's. What does a one-day, one-park ticket cost these days...?
Yes...it's called inflation. We also pay more for gas, groceries, utilities, tuition, etc etc etc...basically we pay more for everything now than we did in the 80s. Why exactly do we think Disney would be different? I am always boggled when I see people expect Disney to do more and more and more and stay on top of their game...but then continue to expect to pay those prices from the 80s. Even if people weren't seeing those high salaries, it still would not make up the cost that it takes to run the parks.
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Old 10-19-2012, 02:36 PM   #104
princessallegra
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I heard back from Disney today, they called me. They explained what other posters reported about the party on the 4th, and that all the tickets from that night had been converted to one day one park tickets. Dh still has his, i have no idea what i did with mine. The cm said they can look up my ticket with his when we get there. I'm very pleased with this! Very unexpected and appreciated!
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Old 10-19-2012, 06:03 PM   #105
DisneyFanJon
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My experience all three times has been that wait times are low to non existent for rides at the party once you get past the first parade (mid to lat September and first party in October).

Read the original ost for this topic; I agree with others that if OP was not happy then they should have complained prior to the very end of the party and that IMO their points were not valid compared to what Disney advertise.

The two weeks I was there last month, the Halloween/Haunted Mansion merchandise was in and out of stock all over the place, let alone the party only stuff. It clearly tells you on your MNSSHP leaflet where the merchandise is and thats its limited. Most people would read "limited" as "dont expect it to be sitting on the shelf the moment the party ends".

With regards the CM and not letting someone effectively choose their candy - it's trick or treat, not a shop, imagine how long the lines get if EVERYONE is allowed to choose candy ? The CM was just being FAIR to everyone. If OP wants Sour Patch or whatever it was, buy it rather than wanting to have a go at someone doing their job. Plus all the stations have different mixtures of candy so how did OP know which was which as only a few are branded like Werthers, Kellogs etc

Rant over, just annoys me when people rant at Disney for non existent reasons and expect to benefit from it.

I enjoyed both parties this year, the weather was challenging on one of them but nearly everything kept going bar the horseman missing one parade.

They probably do it all the time, but one of the best memories was on the Haunted Mansion late on the 5th October party, there was only myself and about 6 others in the stretch room with the CM and after it went black and did the crashing sound the CM had sprawled "dead" on the floor in the middle of us all with no one noticing The other CM's were dressed up more than usual on the ride as well, and I appreciated that one of them outside, when I asked, took time to show me where the new ring is as I'd heard about it but couldnt see it !
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