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Old 06-22-2014, 05:06 PM   #16
Gracie09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmwade77 View Post
That was exactly what I have heard GR advise that someone with the same situation as the OP do on several occasions. Pretty much word for word what I said by the way. Actually, he can make them move by kicking them off the bus for not complying with his instructions. Which is technically what he is required to do under federal law. This law is unfortunately not enforced, as there is no agency that enforces it. The only way would for it to be enforced would be if someone who was affected by the driver not doing this decided to sue over it. It's obviously simpler to just wait for the next bus, so this will most likely never happen. But the law is indeed on the books.
How does he know the people sitting there aren't disabled as well? They can ask but not force. Just because someone doesn't look disabled doesn't mean they aren't.
And as others have said meeting someone at the end of a line is simply not practical nor possible in many rides. Regardless of what you overheard. If you ask the attraction cm they will tell you it's not possible.
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Old 06-22-2014, 05:10 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by cmwade77 View Post
That was exactly what I have heard GR advise that someone with the same situation as the OP do on several occasions. Pretty much word for word what I said by the way. Actually, he can make them move by kicking them off the bus for not complying with his instructions. Which is technically what he is required to do under federal law. This law is unfortunately not enforced, as there is no agency that enforces it. The only way would for it to be enforced would be if someone who was affected by the driver not doing this decided to sue over it. It's obviously simpler to just wait for the next bus, so this will most likely never happen. But the law is indeed on the books.
I'm sorry, but what law requires a bus driver to kick someone off of the bus to provide a seat for someone who can't stand? That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard in my life and completely inaccurate. No ones rights trump another persons. Busses are required to have handicap accommodations, but that doesn't include forcing people to move from regular seats.
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Old 06-22-2014, 05:15 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmwade77 View Post
Actually, he can make them move by kicking them off the bus for not complying with his instructions. Which is technically what he is required to do under federal law. This law is unfortunately not enforced, as there is no agency that enforces it. The only way would for it to be enforced would be if someone who was affected by the driver not doing this decided to sue over it. It's obviously simpler to just wait for the next bus, so this will most likely never happen. But the law is indeed on the books.
No, the bus driver is not required to kick anyone off the bus under federal law. He is required to ask them to move, and that's it.

Now, of course the non-disabled should move for the disabled, however, given the number of hidden disabilities, the bus driver really has no idea whether or not the already seated person also has a disability.

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Category:
Civil Rights & Accessibility
Question:
If a nondisabled person is sitting in one of the “priority” seats in the front of a bus, does that person have to move so that a person with a disability can sit there?
Answer:
Under Department of Transportation (DOT) Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) regulations at 49 C.F.R. Section 37.167(j) bus operators are required to ask the person without a disability to move to another seat. If, after the operator asks, the person refuses to move, the regulations do not require the operator to compel this person to move. However, a transit operator can decide to adopt a policy requiring people to vacate the seats.
http://ftawebprod.fta.dot.gov/Contac...x?CategoryID=4
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Old 06-22-2014, 05:19 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmwade77 View Post
That was exactly what I have heard GR advise that someone with the same situation as the OP do on several occasions. Pretty much word for word what I said by the way.

Actually, he can make them move by kicking them off the bus for not complying with his instructions. Which is technically what he is required to do under federal law. This law is unfortunately not enforced, as there is no agency that enforces it. The only way would for it to be enforced would be if someone who was affected by the driver not doing this decided to sue over it. It's obviously simpler to just wait for the next bus, so this will most likely never happen. But the law is indeed on the books.
Sorry your wrong their only required by law Ada is to ask that it then they have I go by company policy. Someone filled a complaint with the Ada not against Disney but a public transportation company. Saying the driver didn't make anyone move for him but the Ada came back and cleared the company and driver and said that the driver is only required to ask then follow their company policy after that. They could kick anyone off the bus because the other guest might have a hidden disabilities that would require them to sit to. Not sure where you getting that and which agency but the dot follow te Ada and the Ada says that the drivers can't make a guest get up.
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Old 06-22-2014, 05:20 PM   #20
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No, the bus driver is not required to kick anyone off the bus under federal law. He is required to ask them to move, and that's it.

Now, of course the non-disabled should move for the disabled, however, given the number of hidden disabilities, the bus driver really has no idea whether or not the already seated person also has a disability.

http://ftawebprod.fta.dot.gov/Contac...x?CategoryID=4
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Old 06-22-2014, 05:21 PM   #21
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At the end of the day, the only real way to guarantee a place to sit during long periods of standing is an EVC or wheelchair. One could always be rented and only utilized when necessary, like show waits or bussing. I just really don't see what else could be expected for the bus issue in all honesty.
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Old 06-22-2014, 05:39 PM   #22
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Hi all. A little background on me. I am 32 and have had rheumatoid arthritis since I was 8. This sept will be my 5th trip to wdw and I haven't really felt like I needed any special assistance before. That being said, my knees have been seriously acting up and I'm getting concerned. Walking isn't generally a problem, I take lots of breaks and I schedule sit down meals twice a day. What my real concern is are those times that require just stagnant standing, not necessarily ride lines-those tend to move steadily, and I try to avoid lines over 10-15 min- but waiting for shows (FotLK, Famtasmic!, LMA), and especially those resort buses. Last time I had to stand on the bus a number of times back to the resort and it was extremely difficult for me, since I have arthritis in my hands I have a difficult time holding on to those overhead poles, let alone the pressure on my knees.

I don't want to "take advantage" or anything, I just have never really had to ask disney for "help" before and I'm a little nervous as to whether or not these problems would be sufficient (I guess this is the word I'm looking for) to get assistance. I just know I've seen a lot of stuff about people taking advantage and I don't want to seem like that's me. I think I'm just concerned because I was given a hard time for taking the front row seat "generally reserved for disabilities" on the bus back from our county fair, but my knees had basically given out on me and going to the back of the school bus would have been really difficult for me!

Like I said my honest biggest concern is having to stand constantly 20 minutes or more for those resort buses, and then have to stand on the bus. Also right now I have reservation for the EPCOT Sparkling dessert party, I don't know if they have any accommodations so I wouldn't have to stand the whole time, if not I'll probably have to cancel it. Any advice on what to do or where to start would be much appreciated.

Thanks so much
As was already posted, DAS (Disability Access Service ) is only for a place to wait outside of lines. Guests using DAS get a Return Time to come back to an attraction after their wait time has passed.
You can certainly express your needs to Guest Relations, but you need to be aware of a couple of things. I don't think DAS will do as much to help you as you think.

1) There is no seating provided by DAS and there are quite a few attractions where all guests must stand and wait. These attractions are usually shows, where you will be standing for the preshow or ones that load in batches. There is a list of those on page 2 of the disABILITIES FAQs thread (located near the top of this board).

2) DAS is not used for buses or other transportation, so it will not do anything to assist with your wait in the bus lines. There are some benches in some of the general bus areas, but not usually near the actual bus door. As other posters mentioned, you couldn't wait at the benches and get on with your family.
The best way to deal with transportation would be to use transportation at off-peak hours. At park closing, hanging back in the park for 10-15 minutes allows the other guests to get ahead of you and there will be less people in line for the bus or boats.

3) You may want to consider renting a car. The shortest walk will be parking in the regular lot and riding the parking lot trams. The handicapped lots are closer, but there is no tram service and some people feel the walk is too far for them.
You will still probably want to hang back a while at closing time so you font have to wait long in the line for the tram.

4) Since DAS is only for lines, it would not give any accommodations during the Epcot Dessert party. They may have some benches, but if there are any, they would be first come first served and having or not having DAS would not matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gracie09 View Post
You can't meet your party at the end of the line. The lines are not set up in a way that allows for this. You would have to push your way through the line to meet up with them. Even going through the exit wouldn't work because the exit is not necessarily near where the ride loads

And a bus driver can ask people to move but can't make them.
Agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drinehart811 View Post
Yeah, I think maybe I'll just be out of luck. It seems silly to have to rent a wheelchair or something just because I can't stand on a bus (or in general a long time In a single space without being able to sit or move much), and having to wait another 20 minutes for another bus defeats the purpose of not standing on the first one.

I think I'm just feeling upset because I know one day I will need an ECV, but that is not yet, and I don't want to be forced into one years before I need to be just because I need a little help. I'm not trying to skip lines, I just don't want to blow out my knees on day 4 of a 9 day trip standing on a bus and falling or slipping because I can't physically grip the handle well enough. Or not be able to see the fireworks because I can't stand for 30 minutes to see the whole projection show and fireworks.

I guess all I can do is talk to GR at my resort, see what they have to say, and not really expect much of anything. I'm trying to not get emotional but it's difficult because it seems like disney is used to people trying to steal the whole cake and I'm just asking for a bite so to speak. I would just bring a camping stool to rest for those long unmoving waits but I'm pretty sure that's not allowed either.
Keep in mind that guests walks 3 and 9 miles per day at WDW. Some lines are a long distance - Soarin' in Epcot is more than 1/4 mile just to from the line entrance to the boarding area, plus an equal distance to get from unload back to where you came in. Having DAS would not change that.
We kept track of mileage on our last trip and found we always walked at least 5 miles a day and more often walked 6 or more. We were not running all over the park or doing a lot of backtracking, just touring normally. We are not 'commando' tourers and don't go open to close.
Many guests are able to walk at home, but don't typically walk those distances in a day, and especially not multiple days in a row.
It's not that Disney is not letting people get a 'bite' - the former Guest Assistance Card (GAC) which was discontinued when DAS was begun, did not provide a place to sit and in most cases did not shorten the distance walked or the time standing.

Guest Relations at your resort doesn't do anything with DAS; it is issued only at the theme parks Guest Relations.

Guests can't bring a camping stool, for the reasons already mentioned by other posters. There are canes with a tiny fold down seat which are allowed. They can be used as a cane and the seat folds up and down very quickly. Those kinds of seats may not be comfortable for you to sit on or may be difficult to get off of with stiff knees, so I would suggest testing one out before assuming it would meet your needs at WDW.
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Old 06-22-2014, 06:08 PM   #23
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I agree with renting a car to at least take away any worry over the buses.
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Old 06-22-2014, 06:26 PM   #24
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Again...I don't think I reiterate enough that I don't have a problem with all the walking. The walking is not a problem, I take breaks and sit down when it becomes too much. I try not to get in lines with really long waits- I utilize FP and try to leave parks during the hot busy afternoon time. It is having to remain standing in the same area without moving much or having an option to sit down (exp waiting for bus, standing to watch parade or evening entertainment). Ride lines move (slowly but surely they do!) I walk 2-3 miles per day at home (just a small chunk of what I'd walk in a day at wdw, but still shows that I understand the walking portion)

At this point I get I would not qualify for a DAS card, and that it wouldn't help with the problems I have. Maybe I'll try asking a more specific question that may cover some of my bigger concerns.

I get that I can ask a driver for a seat but that doesn't mean I will get one. Check.

I understand there are special areas roped off for parades and such, would I be able to use these seating areas or do you need DAS to use them? If I can access these areas would they allow me to sit during the parade/fireworks or would I still have to stand?

I really am trying to use the regular means that disney has to cover these concerns but there are only so many FP+s available per day, and for some things (like parade and fireworks during MNSSHP) there isn't a FP or special dining event that will reserve me a viewing area. I am just trying to get some ideas for what I can do to still be able to experience the best of WDW without having to put unnecessary strain on my joints.

Thanks again.
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Old 06-22-2014, 06:29 PM   #25
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Firstly, I am sorry for all the pain you must be in and how frustrated you feel about this upcoming trip.

I think the advice of the rent car is a good one as it will address many of your concerns.

As for the rest, when you say you are not ready for an ECV yet, perhaps at home you are not, but as we all know Disney is not home. People who only walk from their car to their desk are now walking 6 plus miles a day. So while at home you don't need a mobility aid, but at Disney you do. If you can accept that, and give an ECV a try, you might find that the trip will go much smoother than you are anticipating.
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Old 06-22-2014, 06:41 PM   #26
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Try a cane with a folding seat. Since the bus lines are mostly static you could use it to lean on or sit on to wait. If there are no seats when you get to the front step aside and let any one pass who wants to take this bus then wait for the next one. You'll be one of the first one to board and will have a seat. The cane will also help deflect the 'evil eye' from from people who might think you should give up your seat . But like has been posted, you might want to try several canes to get the best one for your situation
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Old 06-22-2014, 08:10 PM   #27
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I want to point out, no one is saying not to try to request a DAS, just to be aware of what it is set up to provide.
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Originally Posted by Drinehart811 View Post
Again...I don't think I reiterate enough that I don't have a problem with all the walking. The walking is not a problem, I take breaks and sit down when it becomes too much. I try not to get in lines with really long waits- I utilize FP and try to leave parks during the hot busy afternoon time. It is having to remain standing in the same area without moving much or having an option to sit down (exp waiting for bus, standing to watch parade or evening entertainment). Ride lines move (slowly but surely they do!) I walk 2-3 miles per day at home (just a small chunk of what I'd walk in a day at wdw, but still shows that I understand the walking portion)

At this point I get I would not qualify for a DAS card, and that it wouldn't help with the problems I have. Maybe I'll try asking a more specific question that may cover some of my bigger concerns.

I get that I can ask a driver for a seat but that doesn't mean I will get one. Check.

I understand there are special areas roped off for parades and such, would I be able to use these seating areas or do you need DAS to use them? If I can access these areas would they allow me to sit during the parade/fireworks or would I still have to stand?

I really am trying to use the regular means that disney has to cover these concerns but there are only so many FP+s available per day, and for some things (like parade and fireworks during MNSSHP) there isn't a FP or special dining event that will reserve me a viewing area. I am just trying to get some ideas for what I can do to still be able to experience the best of WDW without having to put unnecessary strain on my joints.

Thanks again.
Sorry to keep emphasizing the walking - it sounds like you do have a good handle on that, but a lot of people don't or expect that DAS will give them a place to sit, so we want you make sure people will be able to plan realistically.

Most of the handicapped parade viewing areas do not have any seating at all. In fact, the one in Germany at Epcot removed all the benches that had been at the back of the viewing area. Guests without a mobility device or visible need would need a DAS to use the area. With a cane, you could probably use the areas. They do tend to fill up quickly and they have guests with wheelchairs and ECVs kind of tightly parked across the front of the viewing area. Guests who are standing or would obstruct the view of the seated guests would be sent to the rear of the area.

For Illuminations, if you are right against the fence, you would be able to lean against it. You could have someone in your group save spots for you so you can walk around while waiting. illuminations is about 15 minutes long, but since people are standing, you could use a cane with a folding seat.
I would suggest having family/other members of your party around you to kind of provide a 'bumper zone' between you and other guests to avoid getting your cane seat bumped.

There are also restaurants with seating on the water - Mexico, Morocco and the Rose and Crown in the UK.
There is also seating in the Outpost area of Epcot - guests can buy snacks there and sit at small tables - there are rocks in the area, which might obscure your view.
As you walk around earlier in the day, look for some barges in the World Showcase a Lagoon. If you have a clear view of those from a location, you will see the show.

For MK parades, there are some spots with benches. People move the benches in the second floor train station to line up along the rail for parade watching. Guests do start finding spots up there 2 hours before a parade Nd, once you are there, you need to stay put. People are standing, so you would be able to use a cane seat there. There is no elevator to get up there and the stairs are fairly long and steep. There is a ramp to the right, but it is very long and steep, with a switchback.
There are also some areas in Frontierland with benches on store porches (at least at this point); those also get snapped up quickly.

The biggest thing I would suggest watching out for is areas either curbs - you don't want to be close to the curb where you might get bumped off.
The parade route is marked on the park maps, so as you are going around the park during the day, scout out some areas you think would work for you.

Any time there is more than one parade, the second will be less busy and, Frontierland is generally going to be less busy than Main Street. This is also true at MNSSHP because parents with small kids want to make sure they see the parade in case their kids get too tired before the second parade.
The rides usuall have shorter waits during the first parade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofy14sure View Post
Try a cane with a folding seat. Since the bus lines are mostly static you could use it to lean on or sit on to wait. If there are no seats when you get to the front step aside and let any one pass who wants to take this bus then wait for the next one. You'll be one of the first one to board and will have a seat. The cane will also help deflect the 'evil eye' from from people who might think you should give up your seat . But like has been posted, you might want to try several canes to get the best one for your situation
Good point - once you have gotten into the bus line, it will not be moving much until the bus arrives for boarding. So, at that point, you could sit on a cane seat.

Besides bus lines, a cane would also give a visual cue to CMs at attractions that you may need an accessible entrance or boarding area.
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Old 06-22-2014, 08:18 PM   #28
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How would you feel about using a rolling walker with a seat? (They're generally known as "rollators"). That you could push and then only sit when you needed. You could also use a manual wheelchair as a walker and just sit in it when you need it. There's nothing that says you have to stay in the wheelchair all the time.


You may not be ready for this, but I want to say it:

I'm a "been there" person on this sort of situation, although I was about 20 when I had to make the choice when going to an event. My condition isn't arthritis, but the symptoms regarding joint pain & mobility are similar to an autoimmune arthritis. Ultimately, for me, the wheelchair (this wasn't at WDW) turned out to be the smartest idea I'd had. All of a sudden I could do things while away that I hadn't been able to do at home for months or years. Some were things I hadn't even realized I'd stopped doing until I was able to do them again. Yes, down the road I did end up buying my own wheelchair, but that's because I'd realized for me a wheelchair was freedom rather than limiting. Not only did it allow me to go distances or wait in spots I wouldn't have managed to do before, but my pain levels went down, my fatigue went down, and it ultimately has made it possible for me to keep walking longer than expected. I could finally go places with family and friends without feeling like I was slowing them down or limiting them (or just skipping things all together because of the amount of walking or standing). It's a hard emotional thing to get over because socially it's so ingrained that mobility aids are bad; in reality mobility aids are neutral or possibly even good. Like a car allows people to move 50 miles without pain/injury, a wheelchair or ECV does the same thing just on a smaller scale.

Most people who rent wheelchairs or ECVs at WDw, even for chronic conditions don't need one at home. Some may never need them at home. There are plenty of people on the boards who use a wheelchair or ECV at WDW and no where else.

If you don't do it this trip, when you get closer to really needing a mobility aid in general, a place like WDW might be a "safe" place to trial. The chances of seeing anyone you know (outside your immediate party) are slim to none. WDW is also a place that has done better than most when it comes to physical access for people who use mobility aids or can't do stairs. I know it helped when I first had to make that decision that it was for something away from home. The two friends with me didn't care (possibly thought it was about time). The other thousands of people I wouldn't see again unless I chose to do so. Obviously, not something you need to do, but I wanted to mention that aspect of first using a wheelchair or ECV while on a trip.

I know my story isn't yours, but if you do ever need someone to talk to about the emotional side of using mobility aids/making the step to try one, feel free to PM me.
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Old 06-22-2014, 09:20 PM   #29
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For the dessert party, explain to the cm that you can't stand at the railing, they gladly brought my mom a wheelchair out so she could sit at the railings. I know it's a little defeating to use an ECV, but I am 24, and I also have RA, and hated the idea, but after getting the ECV and using it on our trip in May, I don't know how I would have done it with out it. You will not see anyone ever again at disney that you see there. It's not in ANY of our pictures from disney, so none of my friends know about it, but it was a lifesaver. Your friend won't get split up from you, they get to stay with you! It's kind of like being a VIP! You get to do back enterances, and get special cast interaction! I loved being able to zip around the park and out run my sister for the 1st time in years! She couldn't keep up with me! If you have any questions just ask! I also have other medical problems and got a das, and that was awesome too! It was great to be able to enjoy disney without my body falling apart
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Old 06-23-2014, 07:54 AM   #30
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I understand about not wanting to use an ECV I fought it for years. In my case I was taking some of the fun out of Disney for my family. I had to stop and sit at every bench and wall. One year I finally gave in and rented an ECV for 1 day about 2 hours in I decided never to do Disney without one. Once I used a scooter we were able to do so much more I wasn't in pain at the end of the day. My using a scooter made my family's vacation so much better
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