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Old 03-04-2014, 04:04 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Tramp68 View Post
You have taken my comment out of context. I was referring to the person who throws their cigarette butts out of the window and my neighbor whose smoke drifts into my windows every spring day on the hour yet calls the police on me when my dog barks at a squirrel at 2 in the afternoon.
I took nothing out of context. I quoted the whole of one of your posts. That is post #157 word for word. Nowhere in it was the mention of squirrels or dogs.
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Old 03-04-2014, 05:32 PM   #167
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Actually they do have the right to smoke, if I agree with that choice or not. A person walking up to someone and knocking a cigarette out of their hands just makes that person a jerk, not someone to be proud of. And can probably get that person sued for assault. Sticking your nose into other people's business when they are doing something perfectly legal makes you a busy-body, not a martyr.
Leave it to you to protect a person's right to smoke while pregnant, and as a corallary, drink as well. Now we can have lots of premature babies with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome all because it is legal.
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Old 03-04-2014, 05:41 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Son of Gadsden View Post
The tar in my lungs? Seriously? The only person attacking anyone here is you. I smoked for two years in my youth, with no parents that ever smoked a cigarette. I talked both of my grandparents into quitting, a coworker, and my wife after I decided it was a filthy habit and I needed to quit. Don't go insulting me like you know me.

Who exactly has attacked you? And who has said you should drag your kids into a smoking area? If you consider someone telling you that the whole world shouldn't bow down to your beliefs, and suggesting that you show some tolerance towards other peoples' lifestyles is an attack, I don't know what to tell you. There are probably things you do that others don't agree with either. Doesn't make it right or wrong. That's the good thing about a free society.

I see a bunch of posters here talking about smoking areas, and one person going with personal attacks and pretending to be attacked themselves to justify all the soapboxing about smoking. I don't see anyone here arguing that smoking is healthy, or a good lifestyle choice. That's not what this thread is about.
You decided to say I was "all over the place" I directed nothing at you, yet you feel the need to preach at me. Same thing that has happened throughout the thread.

Mention that someone shouldn't smoke somewhere and all of a sudden it is revolution time. Don't worry, I won't pry the cigarette out of anyone's cold dead mouth.

I continue to find it amsing that people will actually defend a pregnant person's right to smoke (and by corallary, drink) I also wouldn't be surprised to find that the smae people have the hypocritical stance of being pro-life

I don't have to justify that a pregnant person drinking and smoking is wrong. Nor do I have to justify that dragging an infant in a stroller into a smoking area to have a cigarette is wrong. The fact that people will defend this is just mind boggling.

To quote C3PO "we're doomed!"
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Old 03-04-2014, 05:46 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxiesmom View Post
Actually they do have the right to smoke, if I agree with that choice or not.
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Originally Posted by Horace Horsecollar View Post
There is no "right to smoke" on public property or on someone else's private property.
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Originally Posted by maxiesmom View Post
It is not illegal, and Disney has made it clear that they are A OK with people smoking on their property, as long as they are in the designated areas. So yeah, at WDW they have the right to smoke.
The term "right," in the context of "right to something," normally refers to a fundamental legal principle, not to limited permission granted to visitors.

Yes, Disney grants permission to smoke in a few designated areas of their otherwise smoke-free park environments. (That's a good thing for nonsmokers and smokers.) If it wanted to, Disney could ban smoking or expand smoking tomorrow, and it would have nothing to do with any fundamental "right to smoke" that some smokers claim to have.

Now, having said all that, I have to agree the designated smoking areas of Disney theme parks could technically be considered to grant a "right to smoke" in those areas, and still be within the dictionary definition of the word "right" -- although "permission" seems like a more appropriate noun. So, maxiesmom, you are correct.

I'm sorry I'm belaboring this. Clearly the phrase "right to smoke" bother me.

I'm equally bothered when someone has a "war on smokers" attitude. I applaud the vast majority of smokers who are courteous and whose willingness to follow smoking rules has made my life as a nonsmoker much better. Thank you!
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:02 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by maxiesmom View Post
Actually they do have the right to smoke, if I agree with that choice or not. A person walking up to someone and knocking a cigarette out of their hands just makes that person a jerk, not someone to be proud of. And can probably get that person sued for assault. Sticking your nose into other people's business when they are doing something perfectly legal makes you a busy-body, not a martyr.
Just had to quote MM first so it wouldn't be taken out of context...

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Leave it to you to protect a person's right to smoke while pregnant, and as a corallary, drink as well. Now we can have lots of premature babies with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome all because it is legal.
That was a bit condescending but nonetheless I'd say that she was not defending smokers, she was defending the rule of law. Until smoking is banned on all public and private property the owner of said property has the authority to convey the right to smoke to people on it. You can't usurp the rights of the owner just because you don't agree with what they allow. Disney allows a lot of things that other people don't agree with eg. selling alcoholic beverages, opening on Sunday, having signs written in Spanish, serving pork, allowing female CMs to go about without a hijab.

And I agree with her -- even if you find something socially, morally or ethically wrong it isn't sufficient provocation to conduct a crime.
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:11 PM   #171
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Please stop the bickering back and forth. You are welcome to continue discussing the TOPIC, but avoid debating or insulting one another.
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Old 03-04-2014, 07:44 PM   #172
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Let the smokers have areas to smoke in, mark these areas well, problem solved.

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Old 03-04-2014, 08:39 PM   #173
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How about those who don't like smoking stay away from the designated smoking areas and those who like to smoke only smoke in the DSAs. None of us have any control over what others do either in the parks or in the outside world.
For the record, I stopped smoking when I decided to get pregnant and didn't start again until years later. I don't think smoking is healthy either for the expectant mother or her child, however, there is no law against it. I can only control what I do. There's enough going on in my everyday life that I don't have the time or the inclination to worry about what anyone else chooses to do.
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Old 03-04-2014, 09:05 PM   #174
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How about those who don't like smoking stay away from the designated smoking areas and those who like to smoke only smoke in the DSAs.
Part of the problem is these areas are in high traffic locations.
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Old 03-04-2014, 09:18 PM   #175
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Part of the problem is these areas are in high traffic locations.
What is the problem? I honestly don't understand how this is such a huge issue. I would guess it takes me less than 30 seconds to walk by a smoking area. Do I like the odor? No I don't, but I respect the freedom of those that choose to smoke. Do I feel my health is at risk during that 30 seconds that it takes me to walk past a smoking area? No, I don't. I can argue all day that people are exposed to much more harmful fumes for longer periods when they hop on one of the trams that take you from the parking lots to the gates at all 4 parks, but yet we all hop on for the free ride. Face it, smoking is legal, heavily regulated, but legal none the less. I respect those that smoke within the rules established by Disney.
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Old 03-04-2014, 09:26 PM   #176
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First off There are some interesting smilies on here...

Second, does it seem like this thread is just beating a dead horse to anyone else?
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Old 03-04-2014, 09:27 PM   #177
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What is the problem? I honestly don't understand how this is such a huge issue. I would guess it takes me less than 30 seconds to walk by a smoking area. Do I like the odor? No I don't, but I respect the freedom of those that choose to smoke. Do I feel my health is at risk during that 30 seconds that it takes me to walk past a smoking area? No, I don't. I can argue all day that people are exposed to much more harmful fumes for longer periods when they hop on one of the trams that take you from the parking lots to the gates at all 4 parks, but yet we all hop on for the free ride. Face it, smoking is legal, heavily regulated, but legal none the less. I respect those that smoke within the rules established by Disney.
The problem is even 30 seconds can be major. 30 seconds can trigger an asthma attack for me and land me in the hospital. So I either have to hold my breath and RUN across where people are smoke or walk around the other way. Im not saying ban smoking but moving it away from high traffic areas would be nice.
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Old 03-04-2014, 10:18 PM   #178
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What is the problem? I honestly don't understand how this is such a huge issue. I would guess it takes me less than 30 seconds to walk by a smoking area. Do I like the odor? No I don't, but I respect the freedom of those that choose to smoke. Do I feel my health is at risk during that 30 seconds that it takes me to walk past a smoking area? No, I don't. I can argue all day that people are exposed to much more harmful fumes for longer periods when they hop on one of the trams that take you from the parking lots to the gates at all 4 parks, but yet we all hop on for the free ride. Face it, smoking is legal, heavily regulated, but legal none the less. I respect those that smoke within the rules established by Disney.
OP asked if smoking should be banned. Many reasons were given. Smokers responded angrily that they had the right to smoke. Debate ensued and got off course (I am partially to blame here)

Someone suggested that a few of the smoking locations were too close to eateries and/or in bottleneck areas that are hard to go around.

Smokers again said they had the right to smoke. Debate ensued and got off course (I am partially to blame here)

I suggested that a more prominent "smoking area ahead" sign should be used not only to warn people so they do not accidently walk into the area but to show smokers where to go since some can't seem to find the correct areas (admittedly a small minority)

Smokers again said they had the right to smoke. Debate ensued and got off course (I am partially to blame here)


Throughout many good arguments were made for and against the so called "ban" but I have yet to see anyone give anything but a sarcastic response to the relocating a few poor choices in location and better marking for the areas. (Maybe someone mentioned too stigmatizing??)

A valid point about the trams. We usually walk no matter how far (unless it is pouring rain) I think I just always saw that as a necessary evil, but the smoking preventable.

I went back and read most of my posts. I believe in the core of everything I said, but my tone was clearly nasty and condescending. I apologize to anyone that I offended. I love a good debate and usually do not stoop to personal attacks. Again, I apologize. For what it is worth, the wake of the student who died of a heroin overdose happened within the last 2 weeks. Our school lost 3 students/graduates to the same problem all within a month of eachother. I still remember having the conversation with him and a few firends a few years ago, that "it was only cigarettes" and then "it is only pot" Was it the cause? I don't know. The drug and alcohol counselors sure think it is. I can only assume that this is the cause of my going over the deep end here.

I am sorry for the damage I may have done, none of you deserve to be treated like that.
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Old 03-04-2014, 10:47 PM   #179
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OP asked if smoking should be banned. Many reasons were given. Smokers responded angrily that they had the right to smoke. Debate ensued and got off course (I am partially to blame here) Someone suggested that a few of the smoking locations were too close to eateries and/or in bottleneck areas that are hard to go around. Smokers again said they had the right to smoke. Debate ensued and got off course (I am partially to blame here) I suggested that a more prominent "smoking area ahead" sign should be used not only to warn people so they do not accidently walk into the area but to show smokers where to go since some can't seem to find the correct areas (admittedly a small minority) Smokers again said they had the right to smoke. Debate ensued and got off course (I am partially to blame here) Throughout many good arguments were made for and against the so called "ban" but I have yet to see anyone give anything but a sarcastic response to the relocating a few poor choices in location and better marking for the areas. (Maybe someone mentioned too stigmatizing??) A valid point about the trams. We usually walk no matter how far (unless it is pouring rain) I think I just always saw that as a necessary evil, but the smoking preventable. I went back and read most of my posts. I believe in the core of everything I said, but my tone was clearly nasty and condescending. I apologize to anyone that I offended. I love a good debate and usually do not stoop to personal attacks. Again, I apologize. For what it is worth, the wake of the student who died of a heroin overdose happened within the last 2 weeks. Our school lost 3 students/graduates to the same problem all within a month of eachother. I still remember having the conversation with him and a few firends a few years ago, that "it was only cigarettes" and then "it is only pot" Was it the cause? I don't know. The drug and alcohol counselors sure think it is. I can only assume that this is the cause of my going over the deep end here. I am sorry for the damage I may have done, none of you deserve to be treated like that.
No worries, forget about it. I will admit I despise the habit as much or even more than you do. I lost my father (a life long smoker) 20 years ago. He never met his grandkids. I have never smoked and pray my kids never do. But, I also watched first hand as my dad tried for years to quit but simply could not and because of this I empathize with smokers and feel most would like to quit if they could beat the addiction. For my father, smoking became a source of humiliation for him later in life when the acceptance of smoking began to shift. I now look at a smoking area as a place where most (not all) are there fighting a fight (addiction) they have not been able to win, yet.
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Old 03-04-2014, 11:03 PM   #180
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The problem is even 30 seconds can be major. 30 seconds can trigger an asthma attack for me and land me in the hospital. So I either have to hold my breath and RUN across where people are smoke or walk around the other way. Im not saying ban smoking but moving it away from high traffic areas would be nice.
I'm a smoker and when I was in MK actually this time last year, I did see people run through the smoking area which made me think for a second I was doing something wrong but then thought 'well I am in the smoking area so I'm not doing anything wrong..' As a smoker I don't like smoking around groups of people especially when non smokers and children are walking by. I would actually prefer the smoking sections especially at MK be further off where traffic is slow and non smokers don't accidentally wander in.

At Epcot, I believe in the Japan area, there was a smoking section behind a building which I liked cause it was so closed off from traffic, however, it was obvious no CM's were cleaning up back there and it was absolutely disguisting. The container that people put their cigarettes in when done smoking were over flowing and possibly on fire inside cause it was letting off quite a bit of smoke.

I know not all smokers follow the rules and it gives us all a bad name but I try my best to respect everyone while in the park, and yes as a smoker I agree the designated areas should be moved to be out of the way high traffic areas.
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