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Old 02-22-2014, 11:01 PM   #31
lockedoutlogic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laz View Post

I am no expert or historian, but wasn't Toy Story Mania built recently? That draws quite a bit! What I am seeing is the lack of a number of headliner attractions. However, when a new attraction opens, WOW! Toy Story Mania is that type of ride for me. The real WOW factor ride is RSR in DCA. You talk about an attraction! Then you can also talk about lines and wait times for stand by and FP-. I am no FP+ lover by any means, but if there is an attraction that needs a FP+ type booking, it would by RSR. I would have loved to have Reserved an ride time early for RSR. I would have waited for rope drop, use Wide Right stand by manuver, and then come back later at my pre arranged time.
Good question...

And the answer is generally "no"

Toy story opened in 2008...that's not recent...Disney will try to sucker you Into thinking that...and that is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

They are grinding what they have down into the ground because they are not investing enough... Some, but not enough. There new developments are being stretched out over 5+ years. That's so insane it must be deliberate. It's actual much easier to build these now than 1950-2000...as they readily admit. Fabrication is computer aided/controlled. But they can't throw up the mine train without taking about 2 years longer than big thunder mountain? Come on

These Disney parks...as Walt Disney said...we're designed never to be finished. They are organic...they have to continue to grow/evolve. That is the only way they justify their costs and continue to stand alone as first class. They simply are not doing this anymore. They have a couple of suits in charge now who talk a good game...but they are working on the fringes...like an elaborate rearrangement of fantasyland...and allowing the core to decay.

That is the general direction and it's starting to really show the warts.

Toy story:.. Also...is really just a solid b/c ride. Not somekind of heavy hitter. The long lines are more indicative of the characters and a lack of really much else to do than anything...not that it's somekind of wonderful.

Men in Black over at universal is actually a better ride.. With lesser theming...that opened in 2000 with no fanfare...with a more interesting track layout, rider control, and animatronics. But that ride doesn't have to be the backbone of the park.

The fact that toy story does is a really sad Indictment...

My opinion.
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:31 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
Good question... And the answer is generally "no" Toy story opened in 2008...that's not recent...Disney will try to sucker you Into thinking that...and that is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. They are grinding what they have down into the ground because they are not investing enough... Some, but not enough. There new developments are being stretched out over 5+ years. That's so insane it must be deliberate. It's actual much easier to build these now than 1950-2000...as they readily admit. Fabrication is computer aided/controlled. But they can't throw up the mine train without taking about 2 years longer than big thunder mountain? Come on These Disney parks...as Walt Disney said...we're designed never to be finished. They are organic...they have to continue to grow/evolve. That is the only way they justify their costs and continue to stand alone as first class. They simply are not doing this anymore. They have a couple of suits in charge now who talk a good game...but they are working on the fringes...like an elaborate rearrangement of fantasyland...and allowing the core to decay. That is the general direction and it's starting to really show the warts. Toy story:.. Also...is really just a solid b/c ride. Not somekind of heavy hitter. The long lines are more indicative of the characters and a lack of really much else to do than anything...not that it's somekind of wonderful. Men in Black over at universal is actually a better ride.. With lesser theming...that opened in 2000 with no fanfare...with a more interesting track layout, rider control, and animatronics. But that ride doesn't have to be the backbone of the park. The fact that toy story does is a really sad Indictment... My opinion.
good point I've never understood why some people go nuts for toy story mania. If you think about it it's just buzz from tomorrow land with some better affects and what not. Buzz the majority of the time is no longer than a 10 minute wait. They both are games where you sit in a car with some sort of shooter and you try to get points by playing the game(s). One has a 10 minute wait and the other has 60+ minute wait. And in Disneyland it doesn't seem to be as popular as it is here they don't experience constant 60 minute waits over there as in WDW.
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Old 02-23-2014, 11:25 AM   #33
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generally speaking it doesn't' surprise me at all that disney is discussing ways to cash in on FP

i also agree with lockedoutlogic saying they intentionally drag their feet on all of their projects related to the parks/rides. the mine train will be fun and i bet it looks great but there's no reasonable way that thing really needed this long to be completed
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Old 02-23-2014, 11:30 AM   #34
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good point I've never understood why some people go nuts for toy story mania.
Because there's LITERALLY nothing else to do for the under-10 crowd in all of HS other than Dis Jr Live on Stage.

I have a 2 year old and 4 year old. In January we went to WDW. We spent 2 hours at HS. We met Sofia and Jake and then watched Dis Jr and then left. The park is horrible for the younger set.

Toy Story Mania is the only thing to do there for the little kids, that's why it has huge lines at HS and no lines at DisneyLand. You add TSMM to Fantasyland at the MK and the line will be cut in half overnight. It's not that TSMM is good, it's that parents would rather wait in line and do that with their kids than sit through another performance of Dis Jr Live On Stage.

Little kids can't sit through stage shows like Indiana Jones, they can't go on Tower of Terror or Rock N Roller Coaster. There's nothing else to do for the little kids. The park is horrible for families. Much worse than Epcot.
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Old 02-23-2014, 05:35 PM   #35
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The issue is not "capacity"...it's inventory.

Lets face it...wdw has rested on laurels and not made an attempt to maintain attractions that... Well..."attract"... since about 2000.
I don't believe the problem goes back quite that far.

In roughly 2003-2005 they added Philharmagic, Stitch's Great Escape, Soarin, Mission Space, Lights, Motors, Action and Everest. Then from approx 2008-2010 we saw Toy Story Mania, Turtle Talk, Laugh Floor, American Idol, Seas with Nemo, Nemo Musical, 3 Caballeros. The latter isn't the most spellbinding list but individually they do help add new experiences--not every attraction is going to be a $300 million E-Ticket.

And most of the additions above were either legitimate expansions or a significant upgrade over their predecessor (i.e. "Millionaire" and Timekeeper replaced by TSM and Laugh Floor.)

The problem has been the last 3-4 years during which the only real addition has been the underwhelming Fantasyland expansion. And with Avatar still 3 years away, at best we're only halfway through a significant dry spell.

The list of FastPass attractions didn't look any more impressive in the late-90s before TSM, Everest, Soarin, Mission Space and others.

Biggest issue I have with WDW is that they seem to have forgotten how to spend <$100 million on a modest attraction, in conjunction with larger-scale projects. Instead of relying on these $500+ Million dollar mega-expansions which take 4 years to complete, they should be investing in a steadier stream of smaller additions to each of the parks. The only change to Hollywood Studios in the last 3 years has been the Star Tours renovation.

If they announced an expansion to DHS tomorrow, it would be 2017 before anything sees the light of day.
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Old 02-23-2014, 05:42 PM   #36
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Because there's LITERALLY nothing else to do for the under-10 crowd in all of HS other than Dis Jr Live on Stage.

I have a 2 year old and 4 year old. In January we went to WDW. We spent 2 hours at HS. We met Sofia and Jake and then watched Dis Jr and then left. The park is horrible for the younger set.
I'd say the under 4 crowd is a bigger issue.

My kids are 12 and 10 and there is always plenty for us to do at DHS. Right now they both ride every attraction in the park...although Rock N Rollercoaster is a fairly recent addition to their preference list.

From the time my son (the 12 year old) was 5-6, he's been a fan of nearly everything at the park. Star tours, Indy, Muppetvision, LMA, Backlot Tour, etc. Even Tower of Terror on occasion...although now it's considered a must-do.

Entertaining the young ones is a problem at both DHS and Epcot. That's a big reason why MK attendance is so high. Animal Kingdom has the safari, Boneyard and a couple shows but Triceratop Spin is about the only ride suitable for very young kids.
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Old 02-23-2014, 06:03 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
The issue is not "capacity"...it's inventory.

Lets face it...wdw has rested on laurels and not made an attempt to maintain attractions that... Well..."attract"... since about 2000.

And now when they give everyone a portal to go and book what they have...it shows in brutal fashion.

Is anyone not embarrassed at the fastpass+ sites for studios, ak, and most especially EPCOT?

I'm embarrassed for them and for me for paying for it. They feel nothing will change the latter. Not a safe bet.

I'm no expert... But it doesn't feel right. For every step they take forward... They take one back... And the whole place slides back/ allows other entertainment the opportunity to look better through the looking glass.

I sure as hell am not paying $50 a day extra to skip the lines for things I've done 100 times over. That's not the experience that I have invested in... And it's borderline theft.

That's not "a good deal", "magic", or even "reasonable"...
It's simply a bad producer/consumer relationship titled completely to one side.
I agree 100%. Ticket prices are already becoming way overpriced for the same ole attractions and shows. If I see the Move It, Shake It parade one more time I think I am going to go bonkers .

I feel not making these proposed FP+ "perks" for on site guests only would really hurt their resorts. There are some really nice hotels close to Disney's property that are MUCH less that even a value resort so it would drive people off property.

Being a DVC owner it would really irk me . At that point we would likely stay at our DVC resort and do everything off property. Just because I am staying at a Disney resort does not mean I have to go to a Disney park!!!
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:23 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by tjkraz View Post
I don't believe the problem goes back quite that far.

In roughly 2003-2005 they added Philharmagic, Stitch's Great Escape, Soarin, Mission Space, Lights, Motors, Action and Everest. Then from approx 2008-2010 we saw Toy Story Mania, Turtle Talk, Laugh Floor, American Idol, Seas with Nemo, Nemo Musical, 3 Caballeros. The latter isn't the most spellbinding list but individually they do help add new experiences--not every attraction is going to be a $300 million E-Ticket.

And most of the additions above were either legitimate expansions or a significant upgrade over their predecessor (i.e. "Millionaire" and Timekeeper replaced by TSM and Laugh Floor.)

The problem has been the last 3-4 years during which the only real addition has been the underwhelming Fantasyland expansion. And with Avatar still 3 years away, at best we're only halfway through a significant dry spell.

The list of FastPass attractions didn't look any more impressive in the late-90s before TSM, Everest, Soarin, Mission Space and others.

Biggest issue I have with WDW is that they seem to have forgotten how to spend <$100 million on a modest attraction, in conjunction with larger-scale projects. Instead of relying on these $500+ Million dollar mega-expansions which take 4 years to complete, they should be investing in a steadier stream of smaller additions to each of the parks. The only change to Hollywood Studios in the last 3 years has been the Star Tours renovation.
If they announced an expansion to DHS tomorrow, it would be 2017 before anything sees the light of day.
All good points! When looking at your comments about the mega expansions (see bolded area), what do you think about Carsland and WOC in DCA? I have to admit I loved both and RSR is fantastic! When Disney was building Carsland and WOC, I don't think they were investing much at WDW. Now with Avatar it looks like DLR area will have to take a back seat.
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:49 PM   #39
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I haven't read through the whole thread yet so I have no idea how anyone else feels about this but if this is true, I am selling my DVC points and am done with being a loyal guest at the Disney parks. My husband has had it with the ticket increases and the horrid fastpass+ so if they start charging for fastpasses, well goodbye Disney for us.
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:51 PM   #40
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All good points! When looking at your comments about the mega expansions (see bolded area), what do you think about Carsland and WOC in DCA? I have to admit I loved both and RSR is fantastic! When Disney was building Carsland and WOC, I don't think they were investing much at WDW. Now with Avatar it looks like DLR area will have to take a back seat.
Disneyland only has 2 parks so it's easier for them to get away with it.

If WDW spends 3-4 years on every significant investment, it's going to be a long time before DHS and Epcot receive any love.
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:55 PM   #41
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Star Wars , I can understand, but Avatarland, no. It is going to be like the Jurassic park ride at Universal studios.
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