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Old 11-26-2013, 06:03 PM   #121
natmom
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The teacher is not the one missing a day on the job. The student is missing for elective reasons. The analogy seems better suited that the student should expect to have twice as much work.
Oh my kids teachers miss plenty of days on the job and typically the supply teacher does little or no work.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:06 PM   #122
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Oh my kids teachers miss plenty of days on the job and typically the supply teacher does little or no work.
Speaking from my personal experience, we are required to leave lesson plans and work to be done. I know for a fact from my paraprofessional that my assistant principal came into my room and checked it when I was at a principal-assigned meeting.

Sadly, they do not require that the sub do it.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:06 PM   #123
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Also, a teacher's job does NOT end with the final bell. There are lesson plans to write, lessons to prepare, activities to create to go with those lessons, etc. Not to mention all the data collection and record keeping required by administration. Professional development we are required to complete.

And don't even bother to think about the money we shell out from our own pockets. In New York City, we get a reimbursement for $57 for the whole school year. That was gone in AUGUST as there was no budget for INK when we are REQUIRED to have picture symbols made for our non-verbal students - oh, and we don't have any laminating paper so you need to get that done as well since they have to use those symbols all the time. We'll give you ONE voice output device, but you have to get the batteries. And with your population (autism), iPads would be amazing - but that isn't in the budget...but it would enhance your professionalism so much...

Just...don't go there.
Well of course they have extra work to do, a school day is 6 hours long, a typical work day in the private sector is 8 1/2 hours minimum, with roughly 3 weeks vacation per year. I would expect teachers to have 2 1/2 hours of prep and planning outside of the 6 hour work day to get up to a full days work.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:08 PM   #124
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As another aside - FL public school is not as strict as some would have you believe.
While enrolled in "regular" high school, DD missed the last week of school due to vacation. (The aforementioned music festival).
They were MORE THAN HAPPY to administer her final exams a week early - in the hallway while the other students were reviewing and studying. It was her responsibility to prepare early, and well she did.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:09 PM   #125
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Speaking from my personal experience, we are required to leave lesson plans and work to be done. I know for a fact from my paraprofessional that my assistant principal came into my room and checked it when I was at a principal-assigned meeting.

Sadly, they do not require that the sub do it.
Yes, too bad it is enforced. The students are the ones who suffer. My son's teacher just took a week long trip to vegas in October. He is in grade 8 and there wasn't much done while she was gone.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:10 PM   #126
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Oh my kids teachers miss plenty of days on the job and typically the supply teacher does little or no work.
As my long-teaching DS says as she tries to convince me to Sub for extra money ... "it's just babysitting"
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:10 PM   #127
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The minute the mayor, the military, or the landscaper at the park tell me how to parent - or better yet claim they can (and have the right to) better do so.... you bet your Mickey Mouse PJ Bottoms I will say that, and a heck of a lot more.

;-)

We did choose differently. My daughter, as a high schooler, did not care for the out-of-left-field teaching methods at her charter school, and the homogenized crowd mentality towards lessons. She took a virtual course and was elated to have a syllabus (knowing what to expect!) and to receive individual attention without being singled out. She loved the active role she was given in her own education, and the control over when and how she learned.
She BEGGED to go full time. She was crushed to only learn about virtual school in her sophomore year. She will be graduating this year and is happy to actually UNDERSTAND her courses as opposed to regurgitating "correct" answers on a test. She is also well equipped for testing and has done very well with SAT ACT and EOC.
(Parents of young luds
See, you easily found something that works for you. Is your child going to virtual college? Some people like it but I don't.

The teacher isn't telling you you can't take your child out of school, only what will happen if you do - no make up work, falling behind, no funding, marked delinquent, etc. She's following the rules given to her by her employer and state law. We all follow the rules our employers set.

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Old 11-26-2013, 06:13 PM   #128
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We worked that data from when kids were absent a week or more. There was not data to support the claim that children suffered from being out of school to mess with standardized testing. Yes, they have to make up the work but just so the student does the work they missed they do not fail to do well on standardized tests. IF a parent is too brain dead to be able to comprehend text books written at grade level for elementary school reading, writing, spelling or math, then yes, maybe they should not take their kids out of school. My experience with K-8 text books is that most parents can, if they so choose comprehend the text. If what is taught outside the text that is designed for NCLB concepts it will not be tested for in standardized testing. That is why in High School with so many national students educated by state by state curriculum, high school students can take a uniformed ACT and SAT college placement test.

It is concepts learned over a year whether it is taught by parents or teachers. There is too much over thinking of how much is lost by a week or two during the school year over concepts grasped over an entire year. My parents took my sister and I along with our text books out of school from March 1st to April 15th every year during my childhood to go down to our vacation home in South Florida. We came back to school to finish the school year ahead of our peers. Elementary concepts are not difficult to teach to the general population of students. It isn't that complicated.
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NOT a personal attack on you, but this no textbook issue has been a pet peeve of mine as a parent for a long time!

Non linear education makes it very difficult for students to follow along. Whether on vacation, or struggling in general, or simply trying to review concepts as concepts progress and build cumulatively.

If a teacher chooses to teach without a textbook - an issue I find causes MANY problems for students! - then they should be responsible for providing work for a student who will be out....
Unlesd "no textbook" is an excuse to just make up curriculum as you go along? Of course not. Lesson plans are submitted ahead of time.
College educators provide a syllabus. It is not unreasonable to expect this of teachers.

In light of prepared lesson plans, teachers who act put upon by parents DARING to request the lessons early are quite frustrating.

Copy and paste your lesson plan into an email and stop punishing, guilting, and intimidating your parents. Remember they pay your salary. You know, the one you receive during your 14 WEEK annual paid vacation.

**And as an aside - anyone planning a DCL vacation would have no problem answering your question above. Simple budgeting lol.
Maybe not on a graph, but then there is always more than one way to solve a problem.
Well, first of all, it is not my choice not to have a textbook. I have to use what I am given-- a textbook is not one of resources. I wish I had one.

Second, I have no problem giving my lesson plans to parents. In fact, I give a comprehensive syllabus to every student. If you feel guilty for taking them out, that is on you. I simply provide the information. It's your call to make as it should be. However, please don't bury your head in the sand that we won't be learning new concepts that you might not be able to fully teach to the level required on their assessments.

Thrid, you have kind of proved my point with the question above. Being able to graph a system of linear inequality is a required skill tested on standardized testing. There isn't "another way to solve it." Either you can read and interpret it or you can't. My point is that parents do have their limitations-- I'm a specialist in my field, and they are a specialist in theirs. I don't expect them to know all of the concepts we teach. I'm not saying parents CAN'T learn it, but the majority of parents I know do not how to solve these problems because it has been so long since they have had to do anything like that. Parents take them out for a week and then get mad when their student doesn't understand. It happens all the time. I do the right thing and tutor them after hours, but please understand that if every student did that, it would be bad.

Fourth, I am paid for 180 days that is stretched over 365. I know you may not think there is a distinction there, but I assure you that my hourly rate for sick time says other wise.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:16 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by EllieMaie

The teacher is not the one missing a day on the job. The student is missing for elective reasons. The analogy seems better suited that the student should expect to have twice as much work.
Absolutely. It's the student/parent responsibility to make up all work.
But it must be provided!
Some here cite schools which don't allow, or teachers who will not give.

It's the teacher's responsibility to give - regardless of reason. The reason IMHO is none of their business.

I don't require that the teacher tell me why she is out, when she is. I expect her to catch up on her work, but no questions asked!

If the parent-teacher relationship should be as partners, they should behave equally.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:18 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by neg58

See, you easily found something that works for you. Is your child going to virtual college? Some people like it but I don't.

The teacher isn't telling you you can't take your child out of school, only what will happen if you do - no make up work, falling behind, no funding, marked delinquent, etc. She's following the rules given to her by her employer and state law. We all follow the rules our employers set.

Nancy
No, education at the college level provides her with proper expectations, such as a syllabus. She will be majoring in Biology at a top state school, living on campus and attending classes with the student body.
While MANY courses of study can be taught very effectively in a virtual environment, Zoology is not one of those.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:24 PM   #131
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Agreed completely!! Some poster had the nerve to imply that parents aren't smart enough to teach their children different math problems etc. Math is taught very differently from when DH and I were in school. When our children bring their homework to us with questions often their response to our help is 'no, we don't do math that way and we can only use the way we do at school'. meanwhile, since I didn't go to teachers college recently, I have no way to teach them because we aren't provided with any materials to teach us the new way of doing things.

This brings me to another somewhat related topic. When DH misses work ( for vacation, business trip, illness ) he has twice as much to do when he returns. He has to get the work done somehow because it is his job. Shouldn't it be the same for a teacher assembling work for students? It is their job correct? It is unreasonable for teachers to think that students will never be absent. It is their job (within reason) to keep students up to date with the work when they have been absent. I'm not meaning a student who has been gone for an extended period of time I'm just meaning a few days. I just know I'm going to get slammed for this, but I get tired of the moaning from teachers. DH leaves at 6:15 for work, gets home at 6 and usually logs in for an hour or two at night and on the weekend. Police, firefighters , nurses work long 12 hr shifts,over holidays , my point being, lots of people work very hard with much less vacation time than teachers.
I work about the same hours as your husband during the school year. Yes, I get a long vacation, but who would I teach while the students are on summer break? I almost wish they would have year-long school so that people couldn't throw that in teacher's faces every time they try to offer advice. I don't expect students to never be out. I catch them up after school when they are. I'm not complaining about that. What I am trying to say is that they will miss stuff and it shouldn't be taken lightly.

And, yes, it is true that many parents do not know how to help their child with some of the math we do in middle school. I know this from personal experience. You might be the exception.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:26 PM   #132
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Well of course they have extra work to do, a school day is 6 hours long, a typical work day in the private sector is 8 1/2 hours minimum, with roughly 3 weeks vacation per year. I would expect teachers to have 2 1/2 hours of prep and planning outside of the 6 hour work day to get up to a full days work.
Oh you're funny.

I wish it was only 2.5 hours per day extra I had to work on school stuff. That might be for the last day of school.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:28 PM   #133
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Absolutely. It's the student/parent responsibility to make up all work.
But it must be provided!
Some here cite schools which don't allow, or teachers who will not give.

It's the teacher's responsibility to give - regardless of reason. The reason IMHO is none of their business.

I don't require that the teacher tell me why she is out, when she is. I expect her to catch up on her work, but no questions asked!

If the parent-teacher relationship should be as partners, they should behave equally.
That was exactly what I meant with my original comment. I had one teacher who refused to give me work for my son. I gave 2 months notice of his absence, wrote a very polite letter thanking her for the time and effort it would take for her. I wanted to teach my son that he needed to complete his work even though he would be gone. She took it out on my son and treated him badly. I phoned and expressed my displeasure in how she was treating him, after all, he had no choice when we took our vacation. I am the primary caregiver for my father who has COPD. I could only obtain convalescent care during off season and needed to book 10 months in advance. I NEEDED a family vacation after 5 years of 24/7 caring for him. I was shocked by his teachers attitude and she has changed my views on teachers. No more sympathy from me.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:34 PM   #134
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I work about the same hours as your husband during the school year. Yes, I get a long vacation, but who would I teach while the students are on summer break? I almost wish they would have year-long school so that people couldn't throw that in teacher's faces every time they try to offer advice. I don't expect students to never be out. I catch them up after school when they are. I'm not complaining about that. What I am trying to say is that they will miss stuff and it shouldn't be taken lightly.

And, yes, it is true that many parents do not know how to help their child with some of the math we do in middle school. I know this from personal experience. You might be the exception.
I agree about the year long school. I actually think the summer vacation is too long of a break for the children. In Germany they have a few longer breaks throughout the year and not such a long break in the summer. I think it works better.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:53 PM   #135
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As a tax paying citizen, I do not answer to the school, they answer to me.
Let me know how that works out for the next time a cop pulls you over.

Enough devils advocate. The rules/laws are clear and no one has provided any fact to dispute that. Facts outweigh opinions including "This is the way that I feel so they are going to have to do what I say". That ranks right up there with the "because I said so" defense. This is not to scare anyone. All they have to do is talk to their school. If the school says yes, go for it. If they say no, than deal with it.

In the US, there is money provided by the DOE for every butt in the chairs for each day. IMHO that is what drives the requirements in the US. Children do miss out on some things during the daily education of the school, but nothing that can not be made up if the child's abilities allow. Recently my father became terminally ill and we made one last trip to his favorite destination taking my son out of school. We received the homework package and it was all done when we returned. Honestly, with what little work was sent we wonder what they do all day.

My son was in private school for kindergarden. During this time they were pushed to excel learning addition, subtraction, multiplication, and started division. He was in 2nd grade Spanish and fluent in Microsoft Office. IN KINDERGARDEN. Unfortunately we were not able to continue this due to a job change at the time and had to place him in public school for first grade. The kids were still working on fine writing skills and starting addition. Really feel that the public education system has let him down ever since. Missing a few days here or there do not really seem to make that much of a difference considering the average student in the average school district.

This is not a hit to the teachers that work so hard but more to the state of the public school system as a whole. The validity of the argument is still there, but allowances are often made for parents with children that perform well. Of course if a child is struggling may need to skip this.
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