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Old 11-11-2013, 11:19 AM   #211
BayouMickey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt2dz View Post
OR, maybe, the people who go annually and have since the 1970s (talk about loyality) are more upset beccause they've seen the atmosphere go down over the years? Especially the last 12 years or so.

It used to be that you didn't see maintenance workers, but everything looked like opening day. It used to be customer service not only met expectations, but exceeded them by 300%, it used to be that food was actually worth eating, it used to be that you would see more entertainment than you could watch, it used to be you could shop in the stores and see a million different items of high quality, it used to be...

Now what we get is price increases, lowered training standards (which is why the CMs aren't what they used to be--not their fault, but the fault of Disney corporate for not teaching "the Disney way"), substandard food that is standardized across the board, the same merchandise that is cheaply made in every store (much of which you can find at Walmart, or the dollar store), and more. It is the same shows over and over, except when they cut shows. Some just disappear.

We've had no new rides in forever when Universal is adding and adding and adding. It has taken 3 years to get a minor kiddie roller coaster (that will not be a true headliner), and it isn't open yet!

Perhaps it's more that we know Disney isn't what it used to be. What it should be. What it could be again. We go for the rides, the nostalgia, because that is all that is left. And the nostalgia is running thin. Maybe were just tired of it all and this is the last straw.



True Disney lovers know more than you obviously do about Disney.
Been going since 1975... I'm not upset about it.. Nor was I upset about the end of ticket books, the implementation of FP, dining plan etc. These are all frivolous things in the larger spectrum.
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Old 11-11-2013, 11:22 AM   #212
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This isn't really about FP+. That's just a symptom of a larger issue for me. It's the overall approach to planning and consideration of the guests from upper management. They're making huge profits, so they're going to keep following the same approach in the future.


Exactly. This is how I'm feeling right now. I'm not feeling that special, magical, OMG! We're going to Disneyworld!, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait!!, Are we there yet?! that I normally feel. Not because of the changes, but how Disney, the company that has always set THE standard for customer service, implemented the changes. And I agree with another poster, who the heck is running this ship?
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Old 11-11-2013, 11:29 AM   #213
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BTW, I think all of this will ultimately lead back to more than 3 FP opps per park/per day under most conditions. Probably not during planning but certainly with the addition of same-day opps.
Not quite sure why you are saying this since Disney Exec's have stated they will not be holding back any FP+ reservations, same day or otherwise (per some knowledable posters like BCrook).

Secondly, this would go against their goal of longer term Park capacity management and throughput.
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Old 11-11-2013, 11:32 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by rt2dz View Post
OR, maybe, the people who go annually and have since the 1970s (talk about loyality) are more upset beccause they've seen the atmosphere go down over the years? Especially the last 12 years or so.

It used to be that you didn't see maintenance workers, but everything looked like opening day. It used to be customer service not only met expectations, but exceeded them by 300%, it used to be that food was actually worth eating, it used to be that you would see more entertainment than you could watch, it used to be you could shop in the stores and see a million different items of high quality, it used to be...

Now what we get is price increases, lowered training standards (which is why the CMs aren't what they used to be--not their fault, but the fault of Disney corporate for not teaching "the Disney way"), substandard food that is standardized across the board, the same merchandise that is cheaply made in every store (much of which you can find at Walmart, or the dollar store), and more. It is the same shows over and over, except when they cut shows. Some just disappear.

We've had no new rides in forever when Universal is adding and adding and adding. It has taken 3 years to get a minor kiddie roller coaster (that will not be a true headliner), and it isn't open yet!

Perhaps it's more that we know Disney isn't what it used to be. What it should be. What it could be again. We go for the rides, the nostalgia, because that is all that is left. And the nostalgia is running thin. Maybe were just tired of it all and this is the last straw.
I can and do appreciate this sentiment, especially about the food.
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Old 11-11-2013, 11:34 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by clsteve View Post
Not quite sure why you are saying this since Disney Exec's have stated they will not be holding back any FP+ reservations, same day or otherwise (per some knowledable posters like BCrook).

Secondly, this would go against their goal of longer term Park capacity management and throughput.
Sorry if I wasnt precise. I don't think they will "hold back" FPs either. I think that in practice same-day FPs will be available.
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Old 11-11-2013, 11:43 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by rt2dz View Post
OR, maybe, the people who go annually and have since the 1970s (talk about loyalty) are more upset because they've seen the atmosphere go down over the years? Especially the last 12 years or so.
I've been going since then as well as a child, and have been several times a year, every year starting in the early 80s. I don't think your perceived loyalty to Disney has anything to do with this. I am not upset with Disney over this.

I do agree with you, that customer service isn't what it was then, along with some other things. But I think customer base has changed as well. So change goes hand in hand. For fear of having this thread shut down with my opinions on customers, we'll leave it at that.

But I disagree that just because you've been going to Disney since the 70s means you're more upset than others. Or that Disney has somehow gone "downhill" since then. That is your perception and opinion, to which of course you are entitled. But it doesn't hold true for everyone that's been going since then. Yes some things are different, but I do still love Disney.
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:05 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt2dz View Post
OR, maybe, the people who go annually and have since the 1970s (talk about loyality) are more upset beccause they've seen the atmosphere go down over the years? Especially the last 12 years or so.

It used to be that you didn't see maintenance workers, but everything looked like opening day. It used to be customer service not only met expectations, but exceeded them by 300%, it used to be that food was actually worth eating, it used to be that you would see more entertainment than you could watch, it used to be you could shop in the stores and see a million different items of high quality, it used to be...

Now what we get is price increases, lowered training standards (which is why the CMs aren't what they used to be--not their fault, but the fault of Disney corporate for not teaching "the Disney way"), substandard food that is standardized across the board, the same merchandise that is cheaply made in every store (much of which you can find at Walmart, or the dollar store), and more. It is the same shows over and over, except when they cut shows. Some just disappear.

We've had no new rides in forever when Universal is adding and adding and adding. It has taken 3 years to get a minor kiddie roller coaster (that will not be a true headliner), and it isn't open yet!

Perhaps it's more that we know Disney isn't what it used to be. What it should be. What it could be again. We go for the rides, the nostalgia, because that is all that is left. And the nostalgia is running thin. Maybe were just tired of it all and this is the last straw.



True Disney lovers know more than you obviously do about Disney.
I understand the frustration. The last two years have been hit and miss for us. I love MK and Epcot and this was the first year we ended a trip by deciding to skip one of the parks the next trip.

For example, we always enjoyed grabbing lunch from Tortuga Tavern...now the food is pretty substandard fare. I can only guess Disney went cheaper with the ingredients in order to increase profit.

Castmembers were hit and miss...some had great attitudes while others looked less than happy.

The frustration comes from a love of the parks...we know it can be better and should be better and want it to be better. I get embarrassed when I think that for some other guest it might be their first trip ever and they get less than what Disney has been able to present in the past.

What's worrisome for me is that Disney is seeing huge profits despite the decline in some areas...so where will the incentive be to improve on the basics?
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:08 PM   #218
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I think that is the message they are already sending people. I think they would benefit more by posting this for their employees though...especially the big decision makers at the top
The problem is, Disney went over and above in customer service, to the point where they coddled certain types of people. They created a bunch of spoiled brats.

The customer is not always right. Sometimes, the customer is unreasonable or just plain nasty.

It's been said dozens of times, but I'll say it again. If you don't like the way things are done, don't give them your business.

I do think the vast majority of consumers think they are doing just fine. It's just that the complainers are vocal. In the end though a small number of unhappy DISers aren't going to even register.
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:13 PM   #219
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OP, I'm sorry that your trip didn't work out. Thanks for sharing about your decision.

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Originally Posted by Laketravis View Post
My thoughts exactly, which is why we decided to book a sort of MIN/MAX period for our upcoming visit. Arrive on 11/21 and depart on 12/7 gives us over two weeks, with one complete week of historically high crowds (Thanksgiving) and one week of typically much lower crowds (first week of December).

From a technical perspective, I'm definitely going to be watching for the effects of this now year-long test over those 17 days.
Laketravis: Hope you will share your insights along the way!
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:18 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by luvthemouse71 View Post
The problem is, Disney went over and above in customer service, to the point where they coddled certain types of people. They created a bunch of spoiled brats.

The customer is not always right. Sometimes, the customer is unreasonable or just plain nasty.

It's been said dozens of times, but I'll say it again. If you don't like the way things are done, don't give them your business.

I do think the vast majority of consumers think they are doing just fine. It's just that the complainers are vocal. In the end though a small number of unhappy DISers aren't going to even register.
Most businesses reserve the right to not serve or to remove unreasonable nasty folks from their businesses. No company should change the way they do business due to some bad apples. I'm sure there is a much larger percentage of guests who don't cause any trouble. Also don't you believe that companies need to have "vocal complainers" ? How would they know what needs fixing if no one ever complained?
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:27 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by BayouMickey View Post
Been going since 1975... I'm not upset about it.. Nor was I upset about the end of ticket books, the implementation of FP, dining plan etc. These are all frivolous things in the larger spectrum.
I am not 100% sure what you mean, so I may be misreading something here...

I've been going since 1976, logged 40+ trips adding up too over 400 days in Disney parks. I remember ticket books. Not upset they're gone, although I think FP+ is very much like them. FP never bothered me, love it! I could care less about the dining plan, but I do believe that is reason food has gone down hill (and a big reason prices have Sky rocketed). One of my 4 kids has Autism and I don't even really care about the GAC changes. I am bothered, although only slightly, by the cc guarantees on ADRs--mostly because I can't depend on the ASD kid, but we just opt to eat offsite more, and with the way food is going that's a big win for us really.

I am irritated with the way FP+ is being implemented. And why wouldn't I? Things are changing day to day with no notice. I can only book 3 FP+ per day! but I have a family of 6. Not everyone can do their favorites. I'm not talking Splash Mountain 17 times in a row, but maybe 1 for Splash Mountain, 1 for BTMRR, 1 for Space mountain, 1 for Buzz, 1 for 7DM (if it ever opens), and not massive waits for HM and PoC. THAT is what we are used to. Along with a few repeat performances on the mountains, like 2-3 times total per visit. We have a wide variety of interest levels, height restrictions come into play, my son's special needs come into play, etc.

Autism requires a lot of flexibility, so no super planners there. It's why it is hurting us. We won't do rope drop--too important to have well rested kids. We may be able to stay until closing, or only 6 pm, or we may find ourselves done at noon. Maybe we just need a break, maybe a break could cause a meltdown (NOT to be confused with a two-year-old type of temper tantrum), maybe we find that one park just isn't going to work that day due to sensory issues. And you can't plan for that because vacations throw schedules out of whack.

We noticed a massive down turn when FP times were enforced. It led to a lot of standing around waiting. Not enough time to go do something else since rides seem to break down a lot now. I see more of this. I don't think there will be much in same-day availability. Too many guests. And we're too unpredictable.

I love the idea of remote scheduling. I do not like the idea of wearing a band. A key would do the same thing. I don't mind prebooking if it is 1-2 days in advance, leaving people to be flexible (again, we might find ourselves needing a surprise day off). I wouldn't mind choosing up to three, if you could choose for any three (no tiers at a park where we only ride 2 rides, and maybe imagination and Nemo), could only choose 1, could choose multiple parks on the same day, could choose for your entire trip if staying onsite (for those of us that upgrade), etc. Sure, any of those things *could* come into play! but they also *might not.* All we know is what we have now, and that ain't it.

Add that to all the other downgrading Disney does with higher and higher prices, and I find it unsettling. Seriously, we went the exact same week in 2012 that we did in 2004, stayed at the exact same resort, in a lower level room, and paid 3.5x more--not including tickets or dining, both of which have also doubled per person. Yet, we received fewer perks and experienced a dirtier park, ate crappier food, received lesser service, saw more wear and tear to resorts/buildings/rides/stores, had less atmosphere, was stuck on multiple rides, etc, etc. I'm not wearing rose-colored Mickey glasses. I see this. I don't like it. How can anyone just say "But it's disney!"? Do they not know what made "Disney", "Disney"?

Disney recently had a job listing for a social media listening analyst. Hope they hired one or ten and he/she (they) is out there listening. There a lot of people out there taking notice, just like me.

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Old 11-11-2013, 12:29 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by luvthemouse71 View Post
The problem is, Disney went over and above in customer service, to the point where they coddled certain types of people. They created a bunch of spoiled brats.

The customer is not always right. Sometimes, the customer is unreasonable or just plain nasty.

It's been said dozens of times, but I'll say it again. If you don't like the way things are done, don't give them your business.

I do think the vast majority of consumers think they are doing just fine. It's just that the complainers are vocal. In the end though a small number of unhappy DISers aren't going to even register.
I'm not sure you're truly understanding the points that we're making. This isn't about us being "spoiled brats" or unhappy guests because we didn't get served with a crazy level of "magic". I don't go to Disney for that purpose.

Instead, I want Disney to offer strong attractions that are well-run, not showing their wear, and still provide a top experience. Given the ticket prices, I'd like to be able to ride a good portion of them within a reasonable timeframe. For this reason, I typically go during off season.

FP- was a necessary evil and served a good purpose given the crowd levels and uneven nature of having just a few headliners in some parks. FP+ does not solve that issue and just makes it more challenging without offering the guests much in return.

When the parks are offering a worse value (lesser dining, a lack of new attractions, longer lines) for increased ticket prices while the company focuses on games and "experiences", I'm going to feel disappointed.

Also, the tired point of "if you don't like it, don't go" contributes little to a conversation and can be condescending to fans that have concerns.
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:29 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by luvthemouse71 View Post
The problem is, Disney went over and above in customer service, to the point where they coddled certain types of people. They created a bunch of spoiled brats.

The customer is not always right. Sometimes, the customer is unreasonable or just plain nasty.

It's been said dozens of times, but I'll say it again. If you don't like the way things are done, don't give them your business.

I do think the vast majority of consumers think they are doing just fine. It's just that the complainers are vocal. In the end though a small number of unhappy DISers aren't going to even register.
That's an awful huge brush you're painting with...are there spoiled brats, of course, but to say anyone that's vocal about perceived shortcomings is a brat isn't being fair.

I can't speak for anyone but me, but my concerns and wanting to be vocal comes from LOVING Disney and knowing it can do better. Especially since Disney as a company is raking in huge profits.
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:35 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by luvthemouse71 View Post
The problem is, Disney went over and above in customer service, to the point where they coddled certain types of people.

The customer is not always right. Sometimes, the customer is unreasonable or just plain nasty.

It's been said dozens of times, but I'll say it again. If you don't like the way things are done, don't give them your business.

I do think the vast majority of consumers think they are doing just fine. It's just that the complainers are vocal. In the end though a small number of unhappy DISers aren't going to even register.
totally agree, things such as the change to the refillable drinks is a direct response to bad guest behavior. That change would have never happened if people had simply done what they were suppose to do.

I also feel the change to Fastpass is a result also of a system not working as intended for the "majority" of guests.

I am excited about the changes, our experience with MDE and Fastpass+ was good.

If this change is such that it truly ruins a trip to Disney World I would simply suggest that person stop going. Neither that person or Disney will perish from the change.
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:42 PM   #225
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I've been going since then as well as a child, and have been several times a year, every year starting in the early 80s. I don't think your perceived loyalty to Disney has anything to do with this. I am not upset with Disney over this. I do agree with you, that customer service isn't what it was then, along with some other things. But I think customer base has changed as well. So change goes hand in hand. For fear of having this thread shut down with my opinions on customers, we'll leave it at that. But I disagree that just because you've been going to Disney since the 70s means you're more upset than others. Or that Disney has somehow gone "downhill" since then. That is your perception and opinion, to which of course you are entitled. But it doesn't hold true for everyone that's been going since then. Yes some things are different, but I do still love Disney.
You do realize I had two replies to two different people? And the second was the one who implied that anyone who doesn't blindly accept anything that Disney does as great, doesn't love disney? That is the locality comment I made.

You can say Disney hasn't gone "down hill" all you like. That is your opinion and you are more than welcome to it. I just can't fully agree. The canceling of shows in every park, the increased break down of rides, the homogeneous nature of the gift shop merchandise, fewer CMs on shifts, the lightened training for new hires, the standardizing of menus, the ever increasing prices, etc are all documentable fact. Disney isn't what it used to be. It just isn't. It doesn't mean I don't love Disney, it's because I do that it bothers me.

And you are right, the customer base has changed. Disney has marketed itself that it is a must do for all kids. Get people in there that have to save for 1, 3, 5-10 years to go or put it all on credit card, and they want want Disney made their reputation on being. The more people spend, the more people expect. I don't go to McDonald's thinking I'm going to get great food and wonderful services, but I do expect it when I go to a fine ding restaurant. I'm standard are raised because the price I'm paying is raised. Typical human nature. I don't expect things to be perfect at Disney! but I do expect what they have given me in the past, especially when they are charging me three times the amount!

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