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Old 11-04-2013, 01:12 PM   #61
TinyTim2
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Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
And to add...

The majority of Disney buses do and have run for a decade on compressed natural gas... Not diesel.

They typically aren't waiting in line next to the Hess station for a fillup
No they run on diesel. They may have had a cng demo unit.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:20 PM   #62
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A few months ago, there was talk about hybrid buses. I saw several brought around for testing but I'm not sure if anything ever became of that.
They had a hybrid demo in but for Disney's use they would end up costing more. A hybrid bus works best in stop and go traffic For example Nyc is converting over 800 hybrids to diesel because the routes outside of midtown do not have the stop and go like midtown. The savings are not there.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:27 PM   #63
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No they run on diesel. They may have had a cng demo unit.
Well, after some exhaustive searching... It appear s to be so...

That's very sad, as the cng units were slated to be implemented 10 years ago and replace the aged diesels (shortly after my "tour") as part of the MOD program.

That's pretty pathetic for Disney, penny wise and dollar stupid.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:34 PM   #64
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A line without a connection to wdw is beyond pointless/useless

It would be like running a train from Phoenix to Reno and not stopping in Vegas... There's no damn point.
I won't argue with that. But obviously CSX & it's partners think they can make it pay it's way.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:36 PM   #65
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[QUOTE=aleksandr;49961343]In every rumour there are usually nuggets of truth...

There were plans, now scuttled, by the State of Florida to build a high-speed rail line between Tampa and Orlando.

I believe all of this is now moot, but I could see where these plans could be confused with the concept of a monorail going from MCO to WDW.

Disney did want to put a monorail in from MCO to WDW. Orlando went bat---crazy over it.The locals wanted a stop at I drive because they felt that Disney was trying to keep people from going off property to spend money. Orlando has a love hate relationship with Disney.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:38 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by TinyTim2 View Post
They had a hybrid demo in but for Disney's use they would end up costing more. A hybrid bus works best in stop and go traffic For example Nyc is converting over 800 hybrids to diesel because the routes outside of midtown do not have the stop and go like midtown. The savings are not there.
Yup...they aren't going to make any gains on regenerative braking (braking energy can be turned back into electricity, and recharge the batteries - why hybrid car mileage estimates are usually inverted from typical gas/diesel cars), plus it needs to drive air conditioning nearly year round, the suspension system (kneeling) and the accessible ramp...doesn't seem like it would end up being economical. "Greener"? Probably. But not as much as one would hope.

Hmm...they could always potentially go for dual mode "trackless trolleys" - i.e. buses with trolley poles/pantographs that can use overhead power wires (catenary) like electric trains, but run diesel/gasoline when needed if they have to leave the wires. We have some in Boston - they use all-electric via catenary on dedicated right-of-way routes, but diesel on the general roadways (don't want an oversize load ripping down your 15kv AC lines).
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:49 PM   #67
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Unless they have massively switched gears...the "belchers" Were to be all but eliminated years ago. And if I remember correctly...buses were
Dispatched from a Couple of Spots...not just magic kingdom.

But I'm all for new - or in this case old - info
Well, to me, the "belchers" refers to the old GMC-developed RTS buses -- the fishbowls. They keep promising to get rid of them, but then decide to keep them around for contingency, and then put them back into service. I think there around 30 or so still running.

Some of the Nova buses that replaced the RTS's are pretty dirty, but the newer Gilligs are fairly clean; and the newer the model, the more emission reduction equipment. The ones purchased over the last few years have a particulate filter that periodically burns itself clean at high temp, just like a self-cleaning oven. So they'll put out heavy black smoke for a half hour, and then run smokeless for many days. And the diesel is all low sulfur; I think it may even have a bit of bio-fuel in the mixture.

And yes, the buses are dispatched from all 4 parks and DTD. I said the fueling facility is behind Car Care. Every bus visits there either overnight or in the afternoon.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:50 PM   #68
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Disney did want to put a monorail in from MCO to WDW. Orlando went bat---crazy over it.The locals wanted a stop at I drive because they felt that Disney was trying to keep people from going off property to spend money. Orlando has a love hate relationship with Disney.
Actually, I think you are confusing this with the Florida High Speed Rail plan. Disney was willing to donate the land for a WDW stop, which a lot of people felt was vital to supporting the project. However, Disney insisted that the trains run non-stop from WDW-MCO - whereas there was a planned stop at the convention center on I-Drive as well. I'm not sure if there was ever a conclusion to the bickering about it - the project was vetoed by the governor regardless.
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Old 11-04-2013, 02:03 PM   #69
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Yup...they aren't going to make any gains on regenerative braking (braking energy can be turned back into electricity, and recharge the batteries - why hybrid car mileage estimates are usually inverted from typical gas/diesel cars.
I believe that's why the all-electrics they've tested up to now also failed. They tried running them on the backstage shuttles and in Fort Wilderness, where there are more frequent stops and lower top speed, but even there the buses don't stop when there's no one getting off or on (which is most of the day).
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:24 PM   #70
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Well, to me, the "belchers" refers to the old GMC-developed RTS buses -- the fishbowls. They keep promising to get rid of them, but then decide to keep them around for contingency, and then put them back into service. I think there around 30 or so still running. Some of the Nova buses that replaced the RTS's are pretty dirty, but the newer Gilligs are fairly clean; and the newer the model, the more emission reduction equipment. The ones purchased over the last few years have a particulate filter that periodically burns itself clean at high temp, just like a self-cleaning oven. So they'll put out heavy black smoke for a half hour, and then run smokeless for many days. And the diesel is all low sulfur; I think it may even have a bit of bio-fuel in the mixture. And yes, the buses are dispatched from all 4 parks and DTD. I said the fueling facility is behind Car Care. Every bus visits there either overnight or in the afternoon.
I still can't believe that they still run the old GMC buses. Technology has come a long way to make diesels much cleaner burning vehicles. Unfortunately, the last time I was around Disney for an extended period of time I saw a lot of buses that were breaking down on the side of the road. Surprisingly they were the Gillig buses. I'm hoping they aren't letting maintenance go to the wayside. I'm looking forward to how the new articulated buses will help things on property.
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Old 11-05-2013, 07:20 AM   #71
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Actually, I think you are confusing this with the Florida High Speed Rail plan. Disney was willing to donate the land for a WDW stop, which a lot of people felt was vital to supporting the project. However, Disney insisted that the trains run non-stop from WDW-MCO - whereas there was a planned stop at the convention center on I-Drive as well. I'm not sure if there was ever a conclusion to the bickering about it - the project was vetoed by the governor regardless.
It's possible that I have them mixed together. Disney did want non stop between mco-wdw. There was several hsr plans going around at that time and the press made sure that Disney's non stop part was always mentioned.
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Old 11-05-2013, 07:38 AM   #72
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I still can't believe that they still run the old GMC buses. Technology has come a long way to make diesels much cleaner burning vehicles. Unfortunately, the last time I was around Disney for an extended period of time I saw a lot of buses that were breaking down on the side of the road. Surprisingly they were the Gillig buses. I'm hoping they aren't letting maintenance go to the wayside. I'm looking forward to how the new articulated buses will help things on property.
I have always thought they needed the artics for a while now. For opening and close times. As for breakdowns I am surprised to hear that there are that many breakdowns. As for gillig we have an all gillig fleet here and one is a shop queen in the shop more than on the road.
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:39 AM   #73
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True or not I would love to see a Monorail expansion.
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Old 11-05-2013, 11:45 AM   #74
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I have always thought they needed the artics for a while now. For opening and close times. As for breakdowns I am surprised to hear that there are that many breakdowns. As for gillig we have an all gillig fleet here and one is a shop queen in the shop more than on the road.
The problem with artics up to now has been that the parks and the largest resorts have sawtooth load zones, where the 3rd door would be up against the bus in the next load zone, plus blocking in the bus behind. That is being resolved by the new extended load zones at MK, which I hear will have queues configured to load at all 3 doors simultaneously. At the resorts, I think they just plan to move MK to the rear-most load zone. They've been doing some work to straighten out the curb behind the last load zone, and also extending some load zones at resorts where the buses load at the curb.
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Old 11-05-2013, 11:58 AM   #75
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The problem with artics up to now has been that the parks and the largest resorts have sawtooth load zones, where the 3rd door would be up against the bus in the next load zone, plus blocking in the bus behind. That is being resolved by the new extended load zones at MK, which I hear will have queues configured to load at all 3 doors simultaneously. At the resorts, I think they just plan to move MK to the rear-most load zone. They've been doing some work to straighten out the curb behind the last load zone, and also extending some load zones at resorts where the buses load at the curb.
So far I'm only aware of the artics being used for POP and AoA, and the new bus loop at MK. I haven't seen anything about reconfiguring at other resorts or parks, or redo the existing two bus loops at MK.
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