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Old 11-04-2013, 09:26 AM   #151
AmyB2006
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Originally Posted by robpa View Post
In your airline analogy you get better service on the flight, more comfortable seat ect ect for the extra money you spent. If people who are staying deluxe or onsite in general want extra then they should be asking for reduced park tickets for a perk. They already gets perks for staying onsite. I know someone posted this earlier but the park is a separate entity from your accommodations and what you can do or can't shouldn't be affected by your choice of where you choose to sleep. If it costs me the same to enter the park I should have the same opportunities to partake of park attractions.

I know Universal gives a park perk to their hotel guests but that is for 3 resorts not 24. Plus Universal doesn't have the same attendance that Disney has.
I don't see how that fits. Coach is coach is coach. Everyone is treated the same in coach regardless of how or what you paid. You get a bag of nuts and a soda. LOL

Giving on site resort guests an extra perk is not uncommon with resort theme parks. I don't see why people are all up in arms about this.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:29 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by natfrac View Post
I'm ok with FP+, but the tiered availability is a big step backwards.
Ok, this seems hypocritical.

A) New FP system, ppl complain that everyone is pre-booking all the Tier-1 rides.

So Disney changes it and tiers them so that cant happen.

B) Now you can only pick one Tier-1 and the rest have to be Tier-2s. People complain about that too! When the goal of the tier system is to make the Tier 1s not get taken so fast.

You can't have it both ways. There are simply that many ppl that want to get on the rides. It's not realistic that you will get to go on them over and over. That may annoy you (it annoys everyone) because we want to ride them... it is the reality of the situation. X-million Visitors, ride handles Y ppl in one day. Do the math. There are not enough runs of each Tier-1 to get each person on it even close to the number of times they'd ideally like to. This has ALWAYS been the case, and is no different now.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:31 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by fuzzylogicllc View Post
Ok, this seems hypocritical.

A) New FP system, ppl complain that everyone is pre-booking all the Tier-1 rides.

So Disney changes it and tiers them so that cant happen.

B) Now you can only pick one Tier-1 and the rest have to be Tier-2s. People complain about that too! When the goal of the tier system is to make the Tier 1s not get taken so fast.

You can't have it both ways. There are simply that many ppl that want to get on the rides. It's not realistic that you will get to go on them over and over. That may annoy you (it annoys everyone) because we want to ride them... it is the reality of the situation. X-million Visitors, ride handles Y ppl in one day. Do the math. There are not enough runs of each Tier-1 to get each person on it even close to the number of times they'd ideally like to. This has ALWAYS been the case, and is no different now.
It is ironic isn't it?
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:42 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by AmyB2006 View Post
I don't see how that fits. Coach is coach is coach. Everyone is treated the same in coach regardless of how or what you paid. You get a bag of nuts and a soda. LOL

Giving on site resort guests an extra perk is not uncommon with resort theme parks. I don't see why people are all up in arms about this.
I meant if you fly first class you have a much more comfortable flight than if you fly coach, that is why you are spending the extra money. You definitely get treated differently in first class as opposed to coach.

Guests staying in deluxe are already getting better accommodations(I guess) or why would they spend Disneys rates on a hotel room.They also for the time being get EMH which gives them a park advantage. I would not be happy if I was unable to have the same opportunity to enjoy an amusement park the same as everyone else after having paid the same price.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:45 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by fuzzylogicllc View Post
Ok, this seems hypocritical.

A) New FP system, ppl complain that everyone is pre-booking all the Tier-1 rides.

So Disney changes it and tiers them so that cant happen.

B) Now you can only pick one Tier-1 and the rest have to be Tier-2s. People complain about that too! When the goal of the tier system is to make the Tier 1s not get taken so fast.

You can't have it both ways. There are simply that many ppl that want to get on the rides. It's not realistic that you will get to go on them over and over. That may annoy you (it annoys everyone) because we want to ride them... it is the reality of the situation. X-million Visitors, ride handles Y ppl in one day. Do the math. There are not enough runs of each Tier-1 to get each person on it even close to the number of times they'd ideally like to. This has ALWAYS been the case, and is no different now.
I think it makes perfect sense -- you'd tend to have two different populations complaining about these things, right? People without FP+ would complain about others pre-booking. People with FP+ would complain about decreased utility of FP+.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:47 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by robpa View Post
I meant if you fly first class you have a much more comfortable flight than if you fly coach, that is why you are spending the extra money. You definitely get treated differently in first class as opposed to coach.

Guests staying in deluxe are already getting better accommodations(I guess) or why would they spend Disneys rates on a hotel room.They also for the time being get EMH which gives them a park advantage. I would not be happy if I was unable to have the same opportunity to enjoy an amusement park the same as everyone else after having paid the same price.
Oh ok. But that's not what the OP mentioning that was saying, that's why I was confused.

I do agree park admission should afford everyone the same. But for guests staying on site, you don't think they should get any extra perk? EMH have basically dwindled down to nothing and is rumored to disappear altogether once FP+ is fully rolled out.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:51 AM   #157
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I'm kind of having a good time watching grown adults lose grip on reality a little bit, I'll admit it.

It seems funny to see someone who obviously is an obsessive planner get upset because fp+ was obviously not in their plans and now their plans are ever so slightly changed.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:59 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by AmyB2006 View Post
Oh ok. But that's not what the OP mentioning that was saying, that's why I was confused.

I do agree park admission should afford everyone the same. But for guests staying on site, you don't think they should get any extra perk? EMH have basically dwindled down to nothing and is rumored to disappear altogether once FP+ is fully rolled out.
That is why I said EMH for the time being. Disney's biggest marketing push to staying onsite was being immersed in the magic 24/7 and I guess that doesn't work anymore.

Lets say you go to NYC and choose to stay at the Waldorf. You chose to stay there because of the amenities of the hotel not because of some perk you get of doing something in the city.

If Disney really wants to fill their rooms maybe they should think about dropping the prices to reflect what the rooms are really worth.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:02 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by dmychuds View Post
I'm kind of having a good time watching grown adults lose grip on reality a little bit, I'll admit it.

It seems funny to see someone who obviously is an obsessive planner get upset because fp+ was obviously not in their plans and now their plans are ever so slightly changed.
So you wouldn't mind someone toying with your vacation and you can't do a thing about it? I think that is more of what is bothering people than anything else.

What if you saved for years for this once in a lifetime vacation(which isn't cheap) and now you have very little control over it?
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:03 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by robpa View Post
I meant if you fly first class you have a much more comfortable flight than if you fly coach, that is why you are spending the extra money. You definitely get treated differently in first class as opposed to coach.

Guests staying in deluxe are already getting better accommodations(I guess) or why would they spend Disneys rates on a hotel room.They also for the time being get EMH which gives them a park advantage. I would not be happy if I was unable to have the same opportunity to enjoy an amusement park the same as everyone else after having paid the same price.
The thing is, EMH is not fundamentally any different than getting better FP+ access -- it's all in the framing. You pay the same ticket price to get into the park as offsite guests, but you get to enjoy more hours in the park and presumably ride more rides. WDW is paying the cast members and operating the rides from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. (or whatever), but "taking away" park time from offsite guests so that onsite guests get to feel special and ride more rides.

I also think perceptions of what going to WDW means and the implications of staying on-site differ widely. At one end of the spectrum you could see staying onsite it as simply choosing to have a convenient hotel location and a few relatively meaningless "magical" perks and paying a ridiculous premium for it -- but going to WDW means going to Florida and going to the parks, and staying offsite shouldn't make a difference as far as the parks are concerned. Parks and hotels are totally separate things.

On the other end of the spectrum, you can see staying onsite as what it means to go to WDW -- the entirety of Disney property is WDW, and you're staying there because you want to be immersed in it -- the WDW *resort* is your destination. The parks are essentially an amenity of the resort where you are vacationing. Onsite guests are the "real" WDW guests, and offsite guests are visitors with day passes -- like the difference between staying at a beach resort in the Caribbean and visitors who come in on cruise ships and purchase a day pass to use some of the facilities. It doesn't make the offsite visitors any less than or worse than true WDW guests, but it only makes sense that they don't have access to all of the amenities of the resort you're paying an arm and a leg to stay at.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:07 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by robpa View Post
So you wouldn't mind someone toying with your vacation and you can't do a thing about it? I think that is more of what is bothering people than anything else.

What if you saved for years for this once in a lifetime vacation(which isn't cheap) and now you have very little control over it?
... I do have control over it. No one is forced to use any kind of fast pass + or - the rides are all there without it and a good time can be had without using the fast pass system at all.

When anyone buys tickets to a theme park they're paying for admission. Not a guarantee of fast passes or anything similar, they bought admission. If they toy with me getting into the parks I might have an issue with it, but as long as they offer what they sold (admission) then I don't see it as abhorrent an act as some posters seem to.

What parts of the vacation are you not in control of?
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:09 AM   #162
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I noticed the info about the new tiered system for FP+ first over at Josh's blog:

http://www.easywdw.com/news/celebrat...nges-at-epcot/

So naturally wandered over here, figuring the discussion would be heating up. I get most of the way through the "BIG change to FP+ today" thread, when my browser decided to block the next page due to a "malware attack", somewhere in the thread.

I was going to leave a comment there, but since that's not possible for the next little while, until whatever post it was get removed, I'll just say it here:

I don't think Disney could have possibly come up with something more perfectly designed to make the DisBoards melt down en masse, if they tried!

I have no idea what the final FP+ system will look like. But I'm finding the roller-coaster process of getting there highly entertaining. Yes, I know "may you live in interesting times" is a curse. My inner-ADHD child is dancing with wicked glee right now.

(Our next trip: Nov 30 to Dec 8th! )
I'm amused by the amount of teeth gnashing, chest thumping, wailing and moaning both by FP+/MB and by the GAC/DAS.

The only constant is change. Adapt or sink in the tar pits people.

Just got back last week and going back in March. There were things I liked and things I think I might not like but I'll either work it out or find somewhere else to spend my money. It doesn't have to be a production. Debate/Discussion/Dialog all perfectly acceptable but the Drama has got to go.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:12 AM   #163
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The thing is, EMH is not fundamentally any different than getting better FP+ access -- it's all in the framing. You pay the same ticket price to get into the park as offsite guests, but you get to enjoy more hours in the park and presumably ride more rides. WDW is paying the cast members and operating the rides from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. (or whatever), but "taking away" park time from offsite guests so that onsite guests get to feel special and ride more rides.

I also think perceptions of what going to WDW means and the implications of staying on-site differ widely. At one end of the spectrum you could see staying onsite it as simply choosing to have a convenient hotel location and a few relatively meaningless "magical" perks and paying a ridiculous premium for it -- but going to WDW means going to Florida and going to the parks, and staying offsite shouldn't make a difference as far as the parks are concerned. Parks and hotels are totally separate things.

On the other end of the spectrum, you can see staying onsite as what it means to go to WDW -- the entirety of Disney property is WDW, and you're staying there because you want to be immersed in it -- the WDW *resort* is your destination. The parks are essentially an amenity of the resort where you are vacationing. Onsite guests are the "real" WDW guests, and offsite guests are visitors with day passes -- like the difference between staying at a beach resort in the Caribbean and visitors who come in on cruise ships and purchase a day pass to use some of the facilities. It doesn't make the offsite visitors any less than or worse than true WDW guests, but it only makes sense that they don't have access to all of the amenities of the resort you're paying an arm and a leg to stay at.

So the onsite perception is that we are better than everyone else? When you decide to go on a DW vacation and decide where to stay no one is hiding any of the detail. If you book the GF you know what you are paying and getting upfront. If you consciously choose to stay there knowing that then that was your choice. Don't then complain that you should be getting more.(not saying you just generalizing) Also if you have the ability to drop $600 or more per night on a hotel room you are probably ok with what you are getting and not looking for theme park perks.

The guests looking for more theme park perks are value and moderate and I don't think Disney is going to give them the perks they feel they deserve.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:21 AM   #164
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... I do have control over it. No one is forced to use any kind of fast pass + or - the rides are all there without it and a good time can be had without using the fast pass system at all.

When anyone buys tickets to a theme park they're paying for admission. Not a guarantee of fast passes or anything similar, they bought admission. If they toy with me getting into the parks I might have an issue with it, but as long as they offer what they sold (admission) then I don't see it as abhorrent an act as some posters seem to.

What parts of the vacation are you not in control of?
Its the uncertainty of it all. They keep changing the rules and it is affecting many people who don't have control over it. Look most people go to an amusement park to ride rides. I don't know for sure what is going to happen with the new system but it seems like from the testing phase this is going to be hindered.

Lets say you are not a part of the fastpass+ you show up at the park and the regular fastpass for your favorite ride are gone, or for later than you are going to be in the park and the standby line is 1hr+. Well I guess you have to get in the standby line. Its going to limit how many rides you get to ride.

If you go or have gone several times , or if you just like to pay money to walk around a theme park and take in the sights its not as big a deal as to the family that scrimped and saved to go and this may be the only chance they get to go.

Look they dropped the epcot tier on everyone from out of left field.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:21 AM   #165
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So the onsite perception is that we are better than everyone else? When you decide to go on a DW vacation and decide where to stay no one is hiding any of the detail. If you book the GF you know what you are paying and getting upfront. If you consciously choose to stay there knowing that then that was your choice. Don't then complain that you should be getting more.(not saying you just generalizing) Also if you have the ability to drop $600 or more per night on a hotel room you are probably ok with what you are getting and not looking for theme park perks.

The guests looking for more theme park perks are value and moderate and I don't think Disney is going to give them the perks they feel they deserve.
I don't think it's a perception of being better than anyone else. I think it's that it doesn't feel unfair to most onsite guests when they get park-related perks others don't get (like EMH -- and possibly a better FP+ experience), because onsite guests (and I am pretty much always in this category, as a DVC member) tend to view a WDW visit as an entire immersive experience, rather than mentally separating hotel stay from park stay. If I'm a 24/7 guest at this resort, it only seems natural that the resort gives me certain perks over people who are visiting just for the day.
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