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Old 11-01-2013, 08:55 AM   #31
lockedoutlogic
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And to add...

The majority of Disney buses do and have run for a decade on compressed natural gas... Not diesel.

They typically aren't waiting in line next to the Hess station for a fillup
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:02 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Tonka's Skipper View Post

There is actually 2 projects. The 1first was high speed train with the government involved and that plan is dead.

The 2nd is from Miami to Orlando/MCO., via PC. It is a private group. The plans are layed out and the last I read they are in the permit and right of ways stage.

I have not seen lately, but then again I have not looked.

AKK
I can only imagine what a logistical nightmare that would be for a private group... Unless they could invoke eminent domain. Even thought Florida is still "sparten" in development, seems like it would be tough to do.

And then once the train gets to MCO? Are they gonna hook up to wdw (which they would have to For viability) and get Disney to go along without near total control? That ain't happening.

And private enterprises typically look to make money...which means now you would be looking to collect fees from passengers when they are used to Disney's low investment, free to customer magical express service...

Lots of problems with this.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:03 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seashoreCM View Post
The Orlando to Tampa high speed rail project (now dead) was a public project with a major private partner. The latter was Disney. One of Disney's stipulations was that the trains run nonstop between MCO and WDW. The state wanted at least one stop in between, in the Idrive area.

Partly because of that impasse, the project died.

Had such a project been completed, "Magical Express" would probably still have been created, but running between the WDW stop (in the I-4/192 interchange vicinity) and the resorts.

Trains would have run probably no more often then once every 30 minutes with 1 hour and even 2 hour headways during midday and evening hours. Plus the wait approximating today's DME waits connecting at the WDW station. We might note that waiting more than 45 minutes for the DME bus to ffill up is an aberration.

I doubt that pod or RUF or PRT fixed-guideway transit systems will progress beyond the novelty stage. Their problem is capacity. One track can carry only so many vehicles and each station can load only so many vehicles, and with fewer than 15 passengers per vehicle the total number of passengers per hour per track (lane) is very limited.


I disagree, if you look at the new systems they are amazing. Yes with 1 track or bed, some run on tires), the pods would be limited, but the idea is you load the pod (with up to 20 now) and you go on a multiply tracks main line and then as you reach turn offs the pods go to the different destinations. the number of pods and capacity greatly increases.

By the way, why so much interest in new monorail lines when Disney can't keep the monorails it has running reliably?

Last year the great monorail breakdown and *refub year* Disney did a great amount of renewing and maintenance that the Iger bean counters had held back on.
this year the system has been operating much better. they do need to replace the trains though!. That is over due!

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Old 11-01-2013, 09:05 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
I can only imagine what a logistical nightmare that would be for a private group... Unless they could invoke eminent domain. Even thought Florida is still "sparten" in development, seems like it would be tough to do.

And then once the train gets to MCO? Are they gonna hook up to wdw (which they would have to For viability) and get Disney to go along without near total control? That ain't happening.

And private enterprises typically look to make money...which means now you would be looking to collect fees from passengers when they are used to Disney's low investment, free to customer magical express service...

Lots of problems with this.

My friend, I totally agree, it seems a rough project to get built and operating and making money!

AKK
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:13 AM   #35
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Of course , if they continued to Tampa and up the coast to New Orleans and connect with the Amtrak system, west and north it may be a more lucrative line!


just thinking out loud here.......(that usually gets me in trouble)

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Old 11-01-2013, 04:28 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
And to add...

The majority of Disney buses do and have run for a decade on compressed natural gas... Not diesel.

They typically aren't waiting in line next to the Hess station for a fillup
I work for a shuttle bus company and just yesterday we got another big shipment of propane tanks for our shuttle buses so yes the diesel issue is not that big of a deal.

A bigger deal and something I bring up in every "Why don't they expand the monorail, it would pay for itself?" threads is that now you have all your eggs on on a fixed track, i.e. if a train breaks down the line shuts down and whats the back up, buses.
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Old 11-01-2013, 07:32 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
And to add...

The majority of Disney buses do and have run for a decade on compressed natural gas... Not diesel.

They typically aren't waiting in line next to the Hess station for a fillup
just to add, DME are NOT Disney buses, they are Mears a 3rd party company, they are not owned by Disney as a DME driver told us once the buses have large enough fuel tanks to last the day so they are not needed to be filled every so often.

Otherwise Disney owned uses are fueled at a central Hess station, i.e. the on bu the MK parking lot, they have a shop of sorts right there , with buses being fueled and washed.
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:18 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Miked0292 View Post
just to add, DME are NOT Disney buses, they are Mears a 3rd party company, they are not owned by Disney as a DME driver told us once the buses have large enough fuel tanks to last the day so they are not needed to be filled every so often.

Otherwise Disney owned uses are fueled at a central Hess station, i.e. the on bu the MK parking lot, they have a shop of sorts right there , with buses being fueled and washed.
Isn't Mears also the contractor to operate the on-site buses too? Mears pretty much owns all transportation that runs on rubber tires in Orlando.

People forget that even though the "designs" for monorail trainsets, etc. exist, it does NOT mean they are cheap to make. Those designs are 25 years old now. It can be difficult to get the electronics, etc. now. And these are not commodity designs - a contractor would need to take on building them, without being able to capitalize on mass production savings - they are one-off productions. Full new trainsets will be expensive, period. They did build Peach, but some of the parts came from the wrecked ends of Purple and Pink, and Disney never said how much they paid for it.

In addition, monorails remain an inflexible system. If there is a problem on a line, the line is pretty much shut down until it is resolved. You can't bypass blocks as there are no switches to do so. Switches for monorails are more cumbersome than normal rail.

If they want to do some sort of rail system, you are more likely to see light rail...commodity trainsets, proven standard technology, etc. If an "automated personal transport" system ever gets off the ground anywhere, you might see it at WDW at some point.

But given they already have the bus infrastructure, which is extremely flexible and easily expandable, I don't think you'll see ANYTHING but buses in at least 20 years, if ever. I think you are more likely to see the monorail go away, frankly. Not that anyone wants that.
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:25 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doconeill View Post

Isn't Mears also the contractor to operate the on-site buses too? Mears pretty much owns all transportation that runs on rubber tires in Orlando.

People forget that even though the "designs" for monorail trainsets, etc. exist, it does NOT mean they are cheap to make. Those designs are 25 years old now. It can be difficult to get the electronics, etc. now. And these are not commodity designs - a contractor would need to take on building them, without being able to capitalize on mass production savings - they are one-off productions. Full new trainsets will be expensive, period. They did build Peach, but some of the parts came from the wrecked ends of Purple and Pink, and Disney never said how much they paid for it.

In addition, monorails remain an inflexible system. If there is a problem on a line, the line is pretty much shut down until it is resolved. You can't bypass blocks as there are no switches to do so. Switches for monorails are more cumbersome than normal rail.

If they want to do some sort of rail system, you are more likely to see light rail...commodity trainsets, proven standard technology, etc. If an "automated personal transport" system ever gets off the ground anywhere, you might see it at WDW at some point.

But given they already have the bus infrastructure, which is extremely flexible and easily expandable, I don't think you'll see ANYTHING but buses in at least 20 years, if ever. I think you are more likely to see the monorail go away, frankly. Not that anyone wants that.
The on property buses are run by wdw... They have not outsourced everything... Yet.

And bombardier manufactured the trains... I believe. And as I have "heard" from an acquaintance who works there...it would be costly to work on non-standard/ outdated designs...
As the wdw "highway in the sky" is.

They could, as always, probably have a new set of trains gift wrapped and sent to the roundhouse by Christmas... If they wanted. But that affects the stock price and the bonus packages.
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:32 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
And bombardier manufactured the trains... I believe. And as I have "heard" from an acquaintance who works there...it would be costly to work on non-standard/ outdated designs...
As the wdw "highway in the sky" is.
Yes, Bombardier (one of the few trainset manufacturers left in North America) was the original builder of the Mark VI trainsets for what I understand was about $3.5 million a piece - but that was on a contract for 12 trainsets. They also built Peach, but I'll bet that it wasn't for $3.5 million - or even adjusted for the inflation of 25 years, but at a significant premium, unless they re-used A LOT of Pink/Purple. But the undamaged halves were already used to produce Teal.
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:52 PM   #41
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I think the "combo" train was and still is in Incredibly poor taste...
Not because it was a repaint and duct tape job on something that had a fatality...though that was bad...

Those trains are a symbol of the operation... And of a incredibly lucrative segment of the operation...of a filthy rich corporation...
That is kissing the butt of the Chinese government...and spend 3 times as much money as the trains would cost to push through every bad idea for a movie in the hopes of selling junk at walmart...
And they just can't swing it to serve $100 tickets and $450 rooms.

It's pathetic. When that accident happened... The new trains should have been put into production right then.
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:52 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by doconeill View Post
Isn't Mears also the contractor to operate the on-site buses too? Mears pretty much owns all transportation that runs on rubber tires in Orlando.
I believe during heavy times of the year Xmas/New Years or other possible times you will see a few Mears buses, but that could be from Disney not having enough drivers , or the hours of some drivers have been met for the day, as per DOT. Thus calling in Mears buses/coaches, to pick up the slack.

The second part has been answered as above.
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Old 11-02-2013, 06:33 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
And to add...

The majority of Disney buses do and have run for a decade on compressed natural gas... Not diesel.

They typically aren't waiting in line next to the Hess station for a fillup




Of course in the last few months Natural gas is going up and its expected to continue.!

It could at some point end up just a expensive as diesel.

Am I correct natural gas mileage is less as well?

AKK
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Old 11-02-2013, 10:34 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Tonka's Skipper View Post

Of course in the last few months Natural gas is going up and its expected to continue.!

It could at some point end up just a expensive as diesel.

Am I correct natural gas mileage is less as well?

AKK
Oh I hear you...

That politicians BS about natural gas being cheap is bull. Energy companies price gouge at levels never before seen, blame hedgers and speculators... And price fix with immunity...

I live in the north... Gas is ridiculous and electric is bait far behind
Lived in Florida, gas was dirt cheap and electric was through the roof.

Gee, wonder why.

If we start using far more gas than oil, then had will be ridiculous and oil will fall.

It's economics... But more than that victimizing the consumer
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:06 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
Oh I hear you...

That politicians BS about natural gas being cheap is bull. Energy companies price gouge at levels never before seen, blame hedgers and speculators... And price fix with immunity...

I live in the north... Gas is ridiculous and electric is bait far behind
Lived in Florida, gas was dirt cheap and electric was through the roof.

Gee, wonder why.

If we start using far more gas than oil, then had will be ridiculous and oil will fall.

It's economics... But more than that victimizing the consumer



I don't know what as going on my friend, but we are agreeing a lot lately!
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