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Old 10-30-2013, 11:41 PM   #31
tjkraz

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Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
I'd like to know who is truly excited about this thing? I don't mean "tolerate"...or "benefit of the doubt" - I fall Into those categories...
I mean "truly excited"
I am truly excited about it. From my perspective, the two worst aspects of FastPass have always been:

1) A theme park visit structured around dashes from one FP machine to the next
2) The "take it our leave it" approach to dishing out FP return times

FP+ addresses both of those items. Ride times are secured weeks, days or minutes before arriving at the park--or after entering the park--and they are ride times of my own choosing. Now I can tour the park in a logical manner rather than dashing from land-to-land collecting FP tickets.

I'm not a watch/wristband guy so you won't see me sporting it as a fashion accessory. But the convenience is obvious. And the possibilities for integrating RFID tech seem limitless.

Go check out the theme parks board and witness the excitement that receiving a box of MagicBands is generating for people with WDW hotel reservations.

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Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
EMH doesn't generate revenue to justify the costs (never really has)...and the machines are pointless if they want advance data on rides... Which they do and always have craved like junkies.
The ability to know what's gonna happen before the ball is snapped all but ensures victory... That's what Disney wants.
Guaranteed financial success.
In a vacuum, I can see where EMH may not represent a park's most profitable operating hours. However, it's one of the dwindling number of reasons to motivate guests to pay $400 per night for a room that's worth $150.

If Disney were to eliminate EMH, they would unquestionably lose SOME hotel business. And less hotel business means fewer people immersed in the "magic", dining exclusively at Disney venues, drinking Disney cocktails, shopping at Disney boutiques, renting Disney water mice, etc.

The pressure WDW has felt from Harry Potter / USF is debatable. But I think we can agree that pressure is greater whenever a guest is pushed off-site.

So the real question isn't whether or not EMH is profitable. It's what Disney stands to lose via hotel/dining/shopping/recreation revenue when guests decide to stay a couple miles up the road because there's less value in Disney's inflated hotel prices.
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:41 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkraz View Post
I am truly excited about it. From my perspective, the two worst aspects of FastPass have always been:

1) A theme park visit structured around dashes from one FP machine to the next
2) The "take it our leave it" approach to dishing out FP return times

FP+ addresses both of those items. Ride times are secured weeks, days or minutes before arriving at the park--or after entering the park--and they are ride times of my own choosing. Now I can tour the park in a logical manner rather than dashing from land-to-land collecting FP tickets.
I agree with this. I know it's surprising to many posters here, but I'm EXCITED about the new system. Granted, I don't have any plans to visit the park in the next few months, but I'm excited for its actual rollout.

As tjkraz said, there really is only one viable strategy for park planning - hit the park that's having EMH at rope drop, run to one of the attractions that will have the longest lines, grab some fastpasses, hit the ride on standby while you're there, head to the next line, grab another set of fastpasses, etc.

Yeah, if you're hitting Epcot for EMH, you have YOUR CHOICE of whether you want to run to TT or run to Soarin'. A choice of TWO rides! With FP+, you can schedule FP for both of them, and then hit the park whenever you want. It's already MORE flexible than an Epcot touring plan. And if/when Disney adds more options, it will only get better.

Right now, you have the ILLUSION of choice. Sure, you can choose to wait until late morning, hit the gift shops first, or whatever, but that's not the BEST choice if you want to avoid lines. If you want to avoid lines, there are very few plans that make sense. You can currently choose a different plan that will lead to longer wait times if you want, but you'll be able to do that with FP+ too.
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Old 10-31-2013, 09:38 AM   #33
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I guess I'd put us in the 'cautiously excited' category.

We came to love Disney while FP was fully in play, so we've never done it any other way. That said, the FP+ option is getting us excited about the possibility of touring Disney in a new way. We're already considering a camping trip in 2015 that would have us there for nearly two weeks. In the past, we never would have done a summer trip, and we never would have gone for that long. With FP+, however, we can get up in the morning while it's cool to do some second-tier rides that don't get long until later in the day, spend the afternoons bowling, at movies, at the pool, at water parks, etc..., then return for the evening with FP+ in place for some major rides while it is cooling down (getting in 3 major attractions plus some smaller ones in the evening).

I'm disappointed that we likely will be limited to 3 per day (we've often used 5-6 between two parks in a day), but we'll find ways to make it work and will spend less time running from place to place to get FP's on the other end of a park. I'm not 100% sold, but I see some real potential!
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:24 PM   #34
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The 60 day reservation for FP+ is the big problem. If it winds up like the dining reservation where I will need to be up at 12AM to reserve a TSMM FP 60 days before my trip it will be a complete failure in my eyes. Will they eventually require a CC and charge you $10 for every ride you don't show up for?
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:55 PM   #35
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The 60 day reservation for FP+ is the big problem. If it winds up like the dining reservation where I will need to be up at 12AM to reserve a TSMM FP 60 days before my trip it will be a complete failure in my eyes. Will they eventually require a CC and charge you $10 for every ride you don't show up for?
I posted something very similar in another thread. I am kind of worried it will turn out like that!

The 60 day reservation is my least favorite thing about FP+. My 2nd least favorite is the current limit of 3 FP+, but this could change so I'm not going to get my knickers in a twist about it yet.
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Old 10-31-2013, 04:36 PM   #36
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I could see the 60 days advance booking of FP+ being problematic. That would be annoying for sure - we generally made our FP+ on the website in the mornings, and then adjusted as needed on the fly via the app (with the exception of the first day, when neither the site nor the app were working). I really liked that, honestly. More than once we were able to change a time or change an attraction if we knew we weren't going to make one of the FP times. I definitely don't want to do that 60 days in advance. I remember on the podcast they were guessing that they would likely reserve SOME space for "same day" and some for advance. I hope that is the case.
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Old 10-31-2013, 04:41 PM   #37
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OMG your post made me laugh so hard - especially the top level line! I don't think I would pay for lights lighting up, a fountain or such "extra magic", but I'm sure some people would.
When I heard about the "new" talking Mickey at MK, my first thought was: "this is the kind of "Extra Magic" that I bet we're going to have to pay more for". I think Disney knows how to market that kind of extra magic stuff especially to kids and parents. Half of the fun of going to WDW with your kids is seeing them light up when they meet a character they love or go on a ride that they are in awe of. And it's going to be hard not to want those things for your kids, when you (and they) see others able to experience. My guess is....that's where they are gonna get us!
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Old 10-31-2013, 10:30 PM   #38
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Wherever Disney goes with the Magic Bands, just think if you had the job of trying to make all of the guest happy. No matter what you come up with its wrong.
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Old 10-31-2013, 10:55 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Marvindude View Post
Wherever Disney goes with the Magic Bands, just think if you had the job of trying to make all of the guest happy. No matter what you come up with its wrong.
The point?

If its "poor Disney...we should all be grateful"... I think thought took a left turn somewhere
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Old 10-31-2013, 11:22 PM   #40
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My theory is that, at some point in the future, the standby lines as we know them will no longer exist for the biggest attractions. There will be a certain number of spots for the ride allocated to FP+ and, once the standby line reaches a certain point, people will present their bands at the attraction entrance to get a time at which they should return to the standby line.

The standby line would be kept long enough to provide a continuous supply of guests for boarding, but instead of someone physically waiting in line for 60-90 minutes or more, they will only be in the standby line for 20-30 minutes and will be free to browse shops, grab a snack, or enjoy a minor attraction in the area while they wait for their return time. For example, instead of standing in a 90 minute line for Test Track, someone could spend an hour or so browsing through Mouse Gear or Innoventions, or getting something to eat, before getting into the line.

This is similar to the test done at RNRC a couple of years ago (when standby guests were given a boarding group number and allowed to wait in an area behind the attraction) and what is now being done at Dumbo. It would help achieve Disney's goal of having people free to spend money instead of being held captive in line.

In essence, for major attractions, you'd be replacing the old FP/standby system with a reserved FP/standby FP system. It would be like a restaurant giving guests a beeper to notify them when a table is ready for them.
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Old 11-01-2013, 01:01 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
The point?

If its "poor Disney...we should all be grateful"... I think thought took a left turn somewhere
I hardly think that was what Marvin was getting at. I think his point was "You can't please all the people all the time."

(He can correct me if I'm wrong, however.)
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Old 11-01-2013, 08:31 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by tjkraz View Post
I am truly excited about it. From my perspective, the two worst aspects of FastPass have always been:

1) A theme park visit structured around dashes from one FP machine to the next
2) The "take it our leave it" approach to dishing out FP return times

FP+ addresses both of those items. Ride times are secured weeks, days or minutes before arriving at the park--or after entering the park--and they are ride times of my own choosing. Now I can tour the park in a logical manner rather than dashing from land-to-land collecting FP tickets.

I'm not a watch/wristband guy so you won't see me sporting it as a fashion accessory. But the convenience is obvious. And the possibilities for integrating RFID tech seem limitless.

Go check out the theme parks board and witness the excitement that receiving a box of MagicBands is generating for people with WDW hotel reservations.



In a vacuum, I can see where EMH may not represent a park's most profitable operating hours. However, it's one of the dwindling number of reasons to motivate guests to pay $400 per night for a room that's worth $150.

If Disney were to eliminate EMH, they would unquestionably lose SOME hotel business. And less hotel business means fewer people immersed in the "magic", dining exclusively at Disney venues, drinking Disney cocktails, shopping at Disney boutiques, renting Disney water mice, etc.

The pressure WDW has felt from Harry Potter / USF is debatable. But I think we can agree that pressure is greater whenever a guest is pushed off-site.

So the real question isn't whether or not EMH is profitable. It's what Disney stands to lose via hotel/dining/shopping/recreation revenue when guests decide to stay a couple miles up the road because there's less value in Disney's inflated hotel prices.




Everyone is assuming that once this is totally implemented that they will be able to get the time they want for each fastpass. That may be true now(during limited testing) but will it be true when many more guests have access to it. If you don't book @ 60 days out its going to be slim pickings as far as optimum times.
The parks are only open for so long and rides can only support so many riders per hour so good times will fill up fast, especially if they are also going to hold some back for same day fastpass.
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Old 11-01-2013, 08:44 AM   #43
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My theory is that, at some point in the future, the standby lines as we know them will no longer exist for the biggest attractions. There will be a certain number of spots for the ride allocated to FP+ and, once the standby line reaches a certain point, people will present their bands at the attraction entrance to get a time at which they should return to the standby line.

The standby line would be kept long enough to provide a continuous supply of guests for boarding, but instead of someone physically waiting in line for 60-90 minutes or more, they will only be in the standby line for 20-30 minutes and will be free to browse shops, grab a snack, or enjoy a minor attraction in the area while they wait for their return time. For example, instead of standing in a 90 minute line for Test Track, someone could spend an hour or so browsing through Mouse Gear or Innoventions, or getting something to eat, before getting into the line.

This is similar to the test done at RNRC a couple of years ago (when standby guests were given a boarding group number and allowed to wait in an area behind the attraction) and what is now being done at Dumbo. It would help achieve Disney's goal of having people free to spend money instead of being held captive in line.

In essence, for major attractions, you'd be replacing the old FP/standby system with a reserved FP/standby FP system. It would be like a restaurant giving guests a beeper to notify them when a table is ready for them.
This is an interesting theory that has been passed around, but I think it presents a real crowd control problem. I have argued that an element of this is normalizing wait times. In the old system, the recurrent visitors would spend a lot less time in line than the 1-timers (we know how to maximize the system). The 1-timers, however, are a more ripe group for shopping. I think part of this is to level the disparity in this a little.

That said, the lines play an important role in crowd control. Imagine Christmas week crowds in the middle of the day at MK - now imagine what it would be like if all of the people in lines at the rides were out in the streets as well. This would pose a major crowd control issue for Disney. While it may not need to be 2 hours, I'm not sure they could handle the crowd issues of eliminating waits.
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Old 11-01-2013, 08:47 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by quikah View Post
The 60 day reservation for FP+ is the big problem. If it winds up like the dining reservation where I will need to be up at 12AM to reserve a TSMM FP 60 days before my trip it will be a complete failure in my eyes. Will they eventually require a CC and charge you $10 for every ride you don't show up for?
No, of course not.

The reason for the $10 meal charge is warranted by the fact that restaurants lose money every time a table sits empty. And there's guest dissatisfaction when ADRs are not available.

Restaurants can only host a couple hundred parties per meal, per day. Every empty table eats into their margins.

When FP no-shows occur, it simply creates capacity for other guests...which most would view as a positive outcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wisblue View Post
My theory is that, at some point in the future, the standby lines as we know them will no longer exist for the biggest attractions. There will be a certain number of spots for the ride allocated to FP+ and, once the standby line reaches a certain point, people will present their bands at the attraction entrance to get a time at which they should return to the standby line.

The standby line would be kept long enough to provide a continuous supply of guests for boarding, but instead of someone physically waiting in line for 60-90 minutes or more, they will only be in the standby line for 20-30 minutes and will be free to browse shops, grab a snack, or enjoy a minor attraction in the area while they wait for their return time. For example, instead of standing in a 90 minute line for Test Track, someone could spend an hour or so browsing through Mouse Gear or Innoventions, or getting something to eat, before getting into the line.

This is similar to the test done at RNRC a couple of years ago (when standby guests were given a boarding group number and allowed to wait in an area behind the attraction) and what is now being done at Dumbo. It would help achieve Disney's goal of having people free to spend money instead of being held captive in line.

In essence, for major attractions, you'd be replacing the old FP/standby system with a reserved FP/standby FP system. It would be like a restaurant giving guests a beeper to notify them when a table is ready for them.
Yeah, but have you ever been to a restaurant with a beeper system when they are running 45 minutes behind on seatings? Usually there are people stacked miserably in the entrance way.

The Disney parks would face a similar problem. And that's why I don't think this is likely to happen. One of the familiar refrains you'll hear from frequent Disney guests is "it just keeps getting busier and busier!" In reality, park attendance hasn't increased all that much in recent years.

But what has apparently changed is the use of FastPass. Even before FP+, Disney kept pushing the limits of the legacy FP system, making more and more ride times available to guests. People like FP so this could be viewed as a good thing. But the net result is more and more people clogging the public walkways of each park.

If you shut down the Standby lines at Space Mountain, Splash, BTMR, Peter Pan and others, suddenly you've got 5000 more people filling the park walkways at all times...even on a slow day. On a busy day, it could be 10,000 guests. That just isn't workable.

It's also one of the reasons Disney invested in interactive enhancements to many attraction queues. Attractions like Haunted Mansion, BTMR, Test Track, Soarin, Space Mtn, Pooh and others added elements to help keep guests engaged during those waits.

One of the original concepts behind FP+ was that guests probably would utilizing the Standby queues more (given the limit of 3 FPs per day). However the lines would move faster (fewer FP "line cutters") and the wait would be more entertaining.

Conceptually it may seem like a great idea to do something other than just stand in a line. But realistically, most of the Disney parks NEED people in those lines. The queues serve a very important role in crowd control.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:10 AM   #45
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This is an interesting theory that has been passed around, but I think it presents a real crowd control problem. I have argued that an element of this is normalizing wait times. In the old system, the recurrent visitors would spend a lot less time in line than the 1-timers (we know how to maximize the system). The 1-timers, however, are a more ripe group for shopping. I think part of this is to level the disparity in this a little.

That said, the lines play an important role in crowd control. Imagine Christmas week crowds in the middle of the day at MK - now imagine what it would be like if all of the people in lines at the rides were out in the streets as well. This would pose a major crowd control issue for Disney. While it may not need to be 2 hours, I'm not sure they could handle the crowd issues of eliminating waits.
Bingo...said brilliantly

Especially a about the "ripeness" for those horrid giftshops.

I don't really tolerate lines...nor am i flashing the visa for that tired old junk.

Merchandise sales is at the root of this whole thing (and cutting employees)

... I'll keep saying this till somebody believes me
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