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Old 10-19-2013, 08:46 AM   #781
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There are issues that are a person's personal responsibility. If you can't get around it is your issue to deal with. It is a giant theme park. If you can't navigate it then you need to pay for the tools to do so.

You wouldn't expect NYC to pay for a mobility device so that you could sight see.
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Old 10-19-2013, 08:53 AM   #782
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Disney saying to rent a mobility aid for mobility issues is not new. At least as far back as 2010 when dh started having back issues they suggested he rent a wheel chair or ecv. We ended up explaining why that wouldn't work and eventually using stroller as a wheelchair or in Dh's case a walker was the right solution for us.
Also Disney doesn't have to provide a personal aid (which is what this is considered). They have to make the parks accessible to the extent required by the Ada and state and local laws. Anything you personally need to navigate such parks (wheelchairs, canes, crutches, walkers, people to push you) are your responsibility. If you go frequently look at purchasing what you need so you don't have to rent every time.
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Old 10-19-2013, 09:10 AM   #783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKRUD View Post
Please forgive me if this has been asked/answered before. I haven't yet figured out how to search this site as thoroughly as I'd like. Let me preface that I don't need a DASC, and never had a GAC, but it's just a curiosity about the bottom Disney Dollar.

It's my understanding that nearly everyone is now being asked to rent a wheelchair or ECV. How is that an accommodation for a disability? For annual passholders, trips to Disney are basically free (if you travel up for the day, pack a lunch, and leave at dinnertime) once you've paid for the AP. This forced rental business seems like a pocket-liner.

What about those with stamina/mobility issues who cannot, or do not want to, shell out $70 a pop?
What about those with body configuration issues, for whom a standard wheelchair would be inappropriate?
What people visiting alone or with children who could not reasonably be expected to push them? Will a CM pusher be provided?

Is this one of those "tweaks"?
There is no way my mom could walk eight hours in the park, so we rent her an ECV. I have never even considered asking for a GAC for her. She doesn't need one. Her problems are mobility, balance, and endurance and an ECV handles that. It's just one of the expenses we have to count into the budget. FYI: she is an annual passholder and will get three or four trips out of this AP, so will have to rent an ECV multiple times this year. Due to heat issues she will also not be able to stay in the parks all day. Again WDW is not responsible and should not be expected to give her front of the line pass, just so she can get through the rides quicker. An ECV provides her with what she needs and makes lines accessible for her. That is all the law requires WDW do. They are not required and shouldn't be expected to do anything else for her. She has been though alot in her 80 years and has alot of health problems, but WDW does not owe her a pass to skip the lines.

WDW's answer for mobility problems has always been to rent an ECV or wheelchair. Some people have just gotten lucky and finagled a GAC to cut their wait time. That has never been the purpose of the GAC, so WDW had to address the issue. Too many people were wanting to avoid the standby lines, so used whatever handicap they had (and even some made up ones) to get the GAC that allowed them to use the fast pass lines.

I think it's funny that for so many years, people who were familiar and used the GAC regularly said the GAC did not give front of the line access and frequently made their waits longer are now changing their tunes saying that in fact they did get to enter through the fastpass lines, were able to finish the parks in just a few hours, and got repeat rides anytime they wanted, and now they absolutely must have that accommodation because it is what their kids are used to. I just can't wrap my mind around the fact that they think it's OK for typical kids to have to wait longer, just so their kids can cut in front of them and ride the rides quicker and repeatedly. They seem to think it's their right and everyone with typical kids should be fine with it. I'm not trying to be mean and unsympathetic, but it just doesn't seem right to make other kids waits longer, just so their kid can have their perfect vacation with no waits, no crowds, repeat rides, etc. I can see why WDW had to change the GAC system. This is coming from a grandmother who has seven grandkids, three of whom are considered handicapped (one with ADHD and OCD, one with autism, and one with Zellweger's syndrome (blind, deaf, mentally and physically delayed, with lots of liver and feeding problems). My grand daughter that is autistic is fixated on the Little Mermaid movie. She will watch it all day over and over and over and have a melt down when it's cut off. Should she get to spend a day at WDW riding the Little Mermaid over and over with no waits, while other kids (including her cousins) have to wait in a long line to ride it just once? No. The old system was not fair and not equal. It had to be changed. It's not about which person has the bigger handicap, rougher life, etc. It's not fair that my youngest grand daughter is blind, deaf, has feeding and liver problems, has to have PT and OT several times a week, spends alot of her life at Children's Medical Center, and still has a good chance of not living until her fifth birthday and will probably never walk, but the world doesn't owe her anything either. Everyone who enters Disney's gates deserve the perfect vacation and catering to one group at the expense of another's is just wrong. Typical guests should not have to wait longer just so handicapped guests can cut in front of them and do the parks in half the time. WDW is trying to make sure all wait the same amount of time.

Last edited by aubriee; 10-19-2013 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 10-19-2013, 10:15 AM   #784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKRUD View Post
Please forgive me if this has been asked/answered before. I haven't yet figured out how to search this site as thoroughly as I'd like. Let me preface that I don't need a DASC, and never had a GAC, but it's just a curiosity about the bottom Disney Dollar.

It's my understanding that nearly everyone is now being asked to rent a wheelchair or ECV. How is that an accommodation for a disability? For annual passholders, trips to Disney are basically free (if you travel up for the day, pack a lunch, and leave at dinnertime) once you've paid for the AP. This forced rental business seems like a pocket-liner.

What about those with stamina/mobility issues who cannot, or do not want to, shell out $70 a pop?
What about those with body configuration issues, for whom a standard wheelchair would be inappropriate?
What people visiting alone or with children who could not reasonably be expected to push them? Will a CM pusher be provided?

Is this one of those "tweaks"?
Disney's answer for guests who say they have stamina or endurance need that prevent them from standing or waiting in line has always been suggesting the guest consider a wheelchair or ECV. That is nothing new; it's been part of what they suggest since the 1990s.

There is no requirement that WDW provide wheelchairs (or ECVs) even for rent, much less for free. Providing someone (that WDW pays for) to push one is not reasonable accommodation and there is no requirement that they provide someone to push a wheelchair for a guest.
People are used to seeing 'shopping cart ECVs' in stored and might be expecting them other places, but the stores are providing them as a courtesy for guests.
Guests really need to think about and provide for their own needs as much as possible.

So, what options does a guest have if they feel they can walk the 5-9 miles a day in a park, but can't walk/stand in line?
  • They can rent a wheelchair or ECV in the park
    Wheelchairs: $12/day rental (no deposit) OR $10/day Length of Stay rental

    ECVs: $50/day and $20 key deposit that you will get back when the key is returned, so you pay $70 and get $20 of that back with the key return.
  • They can rent an ECV or wheelchair from an offsite rental company (they are less expensive than renting in the parks. There is more information in post 2 of the disABILITIES FAQs thread.
  • They can borrow or rent one from home and bring it with them.
  • They can use a different type of mobility device, such as a rollator that slows them to walk or sit. They can be bought for under $100 at most Pharmacies, Walmart, etc.
  • They can explain at each attraction that they are not able to stand in line and would like to borrow an attraction wheelchair while at that attraction.
  • They can use Fastpass, planning websites and apps to help them plan their day.
  • They can go to Guest Relations and request a DAS card. The suggestion would be to use a wheelchair or ECV, so they would have to explain their needs and why a mobility device doesn't meet their needs.

Even if they get a DAS card, They still would have to deal with the attractions which involve standing for all guests unless they have a mobility device (mostly shows, but also those that load in batches - there is a list on page 2 of the disABILITIES FAQs thread).
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Old 10-19-2013, 10:31 AM   #785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreaA View Post
I have been wondering about this as well. How "convenient" for Disney that they are now suggesting that a lot more people get wheelchairs or scooters which they oh-so-conveniently have for rent right there. Why should those who don't really need them have to shell out extra money to use them? The oft-used reasoning that "there's more walking in between rides than in line" is really quite ridiculous. If a person can do the park in 4 hrs instead of 8 hrs then that is 4 fewer hrs on their feet, period, and obviously less time in the park will lead to fewer stamina issues. And yes, even the new DAS would result in a shorter day and more resting if the alternative is getting FPs that could be hours in the future instead of just 45min, for example.
Stamina and endurance are not a disability. If DAS was given for everyone with that issue (and it practically was) then those with toddlers, pregnant women, or anyone over 80 years old would get a DAS card. That's just not what it's for. If you can be somewhere for 4 hours of time you can do 4 hours worth of things. If someone can't walk very far or very long in a place where walking isn't a giant factor the obvious solution is to help them with their walking issues... A mobility device.
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Old 10-19-2013, 10:56 AM   #786
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Let me just say in no way is ecv or wheelchair rentals for Disney and cash cow. They don't have enough to turn that much of a profit plus you can rent them for cheaper off site. They never say you have to rent a Disney ecv or wheelchair for stamina they just suggest you rent a ecv or wheelchair you have the choice to where you want to rent. If a ecv or wheelchair make it possible for you to enjoy the park why would it be a bad thing to suggest it. I understand people think Disney making money off them but their not at the end of the day they be lucky to break even with the labor it takes to rent them and maintain them.
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Old 10-19-2013, 11:04 AM   #787
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As far as income from rentals, I think the DAS is going to hurt Disney. Supposedly people have been renting them just to get a GAC. The DAS just isn't that attractive to someone who doesn't need it. As far as being fair there is nothing in the world that is fair to everyone. I believe that WDW is trying their best. There will be glitches such as confused cast members and guest but it will eventually be worked out.
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Old 10-19-2013, 11:23 AM   #788
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Does anyone know yet what they write return times on if you haven't got a DAS card for rides where you can't line up with wheelchairs etc like Great Thunder Mountain at WDW?
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Old 10-19-2013, 11:30 AM   #789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paula Sedley-Burke View Post
Does anyone know yet what they write return times on if you haven't got a DAS card for rides where you can't line up with wheelchairs etc like Great Thunder Mountain at WDW?
It a card that is a little bigger then fast pass

This is a pic of the one for tommorow land speed way it will say the attraction name on it.


https://mobile.twitter.com/WDWNT/med...66026459389953
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Old 10-19-2013, 11:36 AM   #790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aubriee View Post
There is no way my mom could walk eight hours in the park, so we rent her an ECV. I have never even considered asking for a GAC for her. She doesn't need one. Her problems are mobility, balance, and endurance and an ECV handles that. It's just one of the expenses we have to count into the budget. FYI: she is an annual passholder and will get three or four trips out of this AP, so will have to rent an ECV multiple times this year. Due to heat issues she will also not be able to stay in the parks all day. Again WDW is not responsible and should not be expected to give her front of the line pass, just so she can get through the rides quicker. An ECV provides her with what she needs and makes lines accessible for her. That is all the law requires WDW do. They are not required and shouldn't be expected to do anything else for her. She has been though alot in her 80 years and has alot of health problems, but WDW does not owe her a pass to skip the lines.

WDW's answer for mobility problems has always been to rent an ECV or wheelchair. Some people have just gotten lucky and finagled a GAC to cut their wait time. That has never been the purpose of the GAC, so WDW had to address the issue. Too many people were wanting to avoid the standby lines, so used whatever handicap they had (and even some made up ones) to get the GAC that allowed them to use the fast pass lines.

I think it's funny that for so many years, people who were familiar and used the GAC regularly said the GAC did not give front of the line access and frequently made their waits longer are now changing their tunes saying that in fact they did get to enter through the fastpass lines, were able to finish the parks in just a few hours, and got repeat rides anytime they wanted, and now they absolutely must have that accommodation because it is what their kids are used to. I just can't wrap my mind around the fact that they think it's OK for typical kids to have to wait longer, just so their kids can cut in front of them and ride the rides quicker and repeatedly. They seem to think it's their right and everyone with typical kids should be fine with it. I'm not trying to be mean and unsympathetic, but it just doesn't seem right to make other kids waits longer, just so their kid can have their perfect vacation with no waits, no crowds, repeat rides, etc. I can see why WDW had to change the GAC system. This is coming from a grandmother who has seven grandkids, three of whom are considered handicapped (one with ADHD and OCD, one with autism, and one with Zellweger's syndrome (blind, deaf, mentally and physically delayed, with lots of liver and feeding problems). My grand daughter that is autistic is fixated on the Little Mermaid movie. She will watch it all day over and over and over and have a melt down when it's cut off. Should she get to spend a day at WDW riding the Little Mermaid over and over with no waits, while other kids (including her cousins) have to wait in a long line to ride it just once? No. The old system was not fair and not equal. It had to be changed. It's not about which person has the bigger handicap, rougher life, etc. It's not fair that my youngest grand daughter is blind, deaf, has feeding and liver problems, has to have PT and OT several times a week, spends alot of her life at Children's Medical Center, and still has a good chance of not living until her fifth birthday and will probably never walk, but the world doesn't owe her anything either. Everyone who enters Disney's gates deserve the perfect vacation and catering to one group at the expense of another's is just wrong. Typical guests should not have to wait longer just so handicapped guests can cut in front of them and do the parks in half the time. WDW is trying to make sure all wait the same amount of time.
Well said!
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Old 10-19-2013, 11:40 AM   #791
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Originally Posted by alizesmom View Post
As far as income from rentals, I think the DAS is going to hurt Disney. Supposedly people have been renting them just to get a GAC. The DAS just isn't that attractive to someone who doesn't need it.
True. Plus there's the extra man power that's been involved in developing and implementing the new system.
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:26 PM   #792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aubriee View Post
There is no way my mom could walk eight hours in the park, so we rent her an ECV. I have never even considered asking for a GAC for her. She doesn't need one. Her problems are mobility, balance, and endurance and an ECV handles that. It's just one of the expenses we have to count into the budget. FYI: she is an annual passholder and will get three or four trips out of this AP, so will have to rent an ECV multiple times this year. Due to heat issues she will also not be able to stay in the parks all day. Again WDW is not responsible and should not be expected to give her front of the line pass, just so she can get through the rides quicker. An ECV provides her with what she needs and makes lines accessible for her. That is all the law requires WDW do. They are not required and shouldn't be expected to do anything else for her. She has been though alot in her 80 years and has alot of health problems, but WDW does not owe her a pass to skip the lines.

WDW's answer for mobility problems has always been to rent an ECV or wheelchair. Some people have just gotten lucky and finagled a GAC to cut their wait time. That has never been the purpose of the GAC, so WDW had to address the issue. Too many people were wanting to avoid the standby lines, so used whatever handicap they had (and even some made up ones) to get the GAC that allowed them to use the fast pass lines.

I think it's funny that for so many years, people who were familiar and used the GAC regularly said the GAC did not give front of the line access and frequently made their waits longer are now changing their tunes saying that in fact they did get to enter through the fastpass lines, were able to finish the parks in just a few hours, and got repeat rides anytime they wanted, and now they absolutely must have that accommodation because it is what their kids are used to. I just can't wrap my mind around the fact that they think it's OK for typical kids to have to wait longer, just so their kids can cut in front of them and ride the rides quicker and repeatedly. They seem to think it's their right and everyone with typical kids should be fine with it. I'm not trying to be mean and unsympathetic, but it just doesn't seem right to make other kids waits longer, just so their kid can have their perfect vacation with no waits, no crowds, repeat rides, etc. I can see why WDW had to change the GAC system. This is coming from a grandmother who has seven grandkids, three of whom are considered handicapped (one with ADHD and OCD, one with autism, and one with Zellweger's syndrome (blind, deaf, mentally and physically delayed, with lots of liver and feeding problems). My grand daughter that is autistic is fixated on the Little Mermaid movie. She will watch it all day over and over and over and have a melt down when it's cut off. Should she get to spend a day at WDW riding the Little Mermaid over and over with no waits, while other kids (including her cousins) have to wait in a long line to ride it just once? No. The old system was not fair and not equal. It had to be changed. It's not about which person has the bigger handicap, rougher life, etc. It's not fair that my youngest grand daughter is blind, deaf, has feeding and liver problems, has to have PT and OT several times a week, spends alot of her life at Children's Medical Center, and still has a good chance of not living until her fifth birthday and will probably never walk, but the world doesn't owe her anything either. Everyone who enters Disney's gates deserve the perfect vacation and catering to one group at the expense of another's is just wrong. Typical guests should not have to wait longer just so handicapped guests can cut in front of them and do the parks in half the time. WDW is trying to make sure all wait the same amount of time.
Excellent post!!!!!!!
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:27 PM   #793
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Concerned about May trip. My husband has visible disability and I would gladly show it and bring a doctors note. It's no secret. He has an ileostomy bag= no colon and alot of small intestine missing which means it fills really really fast. Long waits are bad news. No one wants a bag of poop ( sorry but true) to explode out in a public spot. Old GAC card would have been perfect and legit. Food and liquids go thru at lightning speed and he gets dehydrated in no time. I am truly concerned about our trip. Multiple medical issues here. Not autism. That on top of blood clots and fatigue. He looks perfect minus the bag under his shirt. How is this going to help our family make our trip enjoyable? He NEVER wants to travel but has decided he wants to see his kids enjoy Disney. So we are making it happen. But he needs the assistance. Anyone????
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:33 PM   #794
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Concerned about May trip. My husband has visible disability and I would gladly show it and bring a doctors note. It's no secret. He has an ileostomy bag= no colon and alot of small intestine missing which means it fills really really fast. Long waits are bad news. No one wants a bag of poop ( sorry but true) to explode out in a public spot. Old GAC card would have been perfect and legit. Food and liquids go thru at lightning speed and he gets dehydrated in no time. I am truly concerned about our trip. Multiple medical issues here. Not autism. That on top of blood clots and fatigue. He looks perfect minus the bag under his shirt. How is this going to help our family make our trip enjoyable? He NEVER wants to travel but has decided he wants to see his kids enjoy Disney. So we are making it happen. But he needs the assistance. Anyone????
Hopefully he would be issued a das. Go to the kiosk and get a wait time. He could wait anywhere he chooses. When its time to ride if he's having an issue you can use your pass anytime after the return time written on the card. Rinse and repeat!
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:45 PM   #795
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[*]They can explain at each attraction that they are not able to stand in line and would like to borrow an attraction wheelchair while at that attraction.
Is this an option at most attractions?

For someone who can walk, but not stand for long periods of time it sounds like a good option, especially since not every ride has a long wait. You could just push it in lines and sit in it during the standing only portions.
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