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Old 10-12-2013, 02:52 AM   #181
DPCummerbund
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Originally Posted by Shaden View Post
Not making fun of you, just pointing out your absolutely contradictory positions...

People don't pay for a monorail resort to have a 90% CHANCE of having the monorail open, they pay to have the monorail, period.
This is FACTUALLY INCORRECT. People CANNOT pay to have the "monorail, period" because it is not ALWAYS WORKING, period. This is NOT the first time that the monorail has been closed. It closes several times a year. If guests' expectation is that the monorail is guaranteed to be working while they're at WDW, then they are WRONG, because it is not always working. They are expecting something (a "perfect" monorail experience) that Disney has NEVER given. EVER.

BTW, the Epcot monorail was closed yesterday. "Technical issues": http://www.wdwmagic.com/transportati...cal-issues.htm

You'll notice that there's no mention of Disney compensating anybody for the lack of a monorail. Instead, they're adding extra buses. Pretty much like they're doing for the resort line.

I've never stayed at the Poly, but it's the one resort I'd most like to stay at sometime. With the DVC coming to the Poly, I'd buy there if I could afford it, and the monorail is ONE of the reasons. I'd pay MORE to stay at the Poly than at WL (my other favorite resorts) BECAUSE of the monorail - even though it doesn't always work. One of the reasons I like the Poly (as others have said) is that you can walk to the TTC & catch the Resort, Express, or Epcot monorails from there, or take the ferry to MK. So, if one (or more) of the monorails is down, you have other transportation options. If you really think about it, I'm paying extra for BOTH the monorail AND its backup transportation! Weird? Perhaps. But it's simply a fact.

The monorail is great, but it doesn't always work. I'm sorry you cannot understand this, but I feel that I've explained it every way that I can. If you think Disney is going to pay you when the monorail is down... well, as one of my colleagues always says, "Get used to disappointment."
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Old 10-12-2013, 05:00 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by Shaden View Post
Not making fun of you, just pointing out your absolutely contradictory positions. Its classic Disney apologist, something I had just been discussing on this thread.

People don't pay for a monorail resort to have a 90% CHANCE of having the monorail open, they pay to have the monorail, period.
What people think they are paying for, and expect that they are paying for, and get on soap-boxes demanding that they are paying for, does not always reflect what they are actually paying for.

Like it or not, booking a room at the Poly is just that - a Room at the Poly. You have not booked a room on a monorail, or a bus, or a boat, or even in the RV you have in the parking lot. The monorail is, whatever everyone else may wish it was, merely one of a series of amenities that the hotel offers. Same goes for swimming pools, restaurants, etc.

"Monorail resort" is a location description - like "Epcot Resort" - not a guarantee of service.

Would I personally be p---ed off if I arrived and found the monorail wasn't running due to maintenance work at the time I happened to be there? Sure, but it's just one of those unfortunate things.

We stayed at the Waldorf Astoria in New York a couple of years ago, and one lobby area was closed for renovation work and the whole hotel frontage had scaffolding over it so we had to use the rear entrance. Was I a little disappointed in our timing? Yep. Did I stand and rant at the front desk that I wanted compensation? Nope.


My only real criticism of Disney here is their lack of proper advanced communication to their guests. While they obviously seem to think that they have satisfactorily resolved the problem in advance by adding extra buses and boats, it seems crazy that they do not appear to have realised what the fan reaction was likely to be - fans don't see the monorail as just one of a series of transportation options.

Sure, they are not obliged to inform people of every amenity that won't be available (after all, it's rare than SOMETHING isn't being repaired, somewhere - and the possibilities are covered in the small print anyway) but it would have been good Guest Service.

Given that Disney have been trying so hard to data-mine and discover everything about us - including email addresses - for marketing purposes over the last few years, it seems odd that they wouldn't use that information for something that guests would actually find useful.

The opportunity to change resorts in advance if riding the monorail is a "deal breaker" for anyone would have gone a long way in helping to diffuse this situation.

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Old 10-12-2013, 05:07 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by DPCummerbund View Post
This is FACTUALLY INCORRECT. People CANNOT pay to have the "monorail, period" because it is not ALWAYS WORKING, period. This is NOT the first time that the monorail has been closed. It closes several times a year. If guests' expectation is that the monorail is guaranteed to be working while they're at WDW, then they are WRONG, because it is not always working. They are expecting something (a "perfect" monorail experience) that Disney has NEVER given. EVER. BTW, the Epcot monorail was closed yesterday. "Technical issues": http://www.wdwmagic.com/transportati...cal-issues.htm You'll notice that there's no mention of Disney compensating anybody for the lack of a monorail. Instead, they're adding extra buses. Pretty much like they're doing for the resort line. I've never stayed at the Poly, but it's the one resort I'd most like to stay at sometime. With the DVC coming to the Poly, I'd buy there if I could afford it, and the monorail is ONE of the reasons. I'd pay MORE to stay at the Poly than at WL (my other favorite resorts) BECAUSE of the monorail - even though it doesn't always work. One of the reasons I like the Poly (as others have said) is that you can walk to the TTC & catch the Resort, Express, or Epcot monorails from there, or take the ferry to MK. So, if one (or more) of the monorails is down, you have other transportation options. If you really think about it, I'm paying extra for BOTH the monorail AND its backup transportation! Weird? Perhaps. But it's simply a fact. The monorail is great, but it doesn't always work. I'm sorry you cannot understand this, but I feel that I've explained it every way that I can. If you think Disney is going to pay you when the monorail is down... well, as one of my colleagues always says, "Get used to disappointment."
I absolutely understand that unexpected maintenance happens and that Disney must react to correct issues. I understand that Disney is probably not going to compensate. I got that. What many of us are trying to explain to you is that Disney was obligated to inform guests that an amenity that they advertise is going to be limited. Now, you might feel that the monorail is not part of the resort perks, so you would just shrug it off, but I can assure you that my husband would not. On our last trip we stated at the beach club, and he hated it. He said monorail line or nothing next time, so this issue would be a deal breaker for him.


We stayed at the BC for SAB. That was the only reason we chose that resort. Not for easy access to Epcot and DHS. No matter any other amenities, we chose to pay in excess of $600 per night because my granddaughter would love that pool. If SAB was closed for a substantial timeframe every day of or stay, I would expect to be notified. The Clown pool as a substitute would not cut the mustard. Guests deserve to be informed that something that they are paying for is not going to be available, and it was possible for Disney to communicate the problem. They chose not to because they did not want to allow for guests to make changes.

I understand that Disney is not going to offer compensation, but if I was not given the opportunity to decide for myself that the resort would have the same value with the curtailed monorail service, I would expect some recompense. And I bet that Disney is compensating in one way or another those people who are very upset because while they may not " need" to honor guest expectations, they should.
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Old 10-12-2013, 05:35 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by Shaden View Post
Not making fun of you, just pointing out your absolutely contradictory positions. Its classic Disney apologist, something I had just been discussing on this thread.

The issue isn't about the price of Disney, or the value of the parks. We are talking about the resorts in particular. People don't pay for a monorail resort to have a 90% CHANCE of having the monorail open, they pay to have the monorail, period. Some people pay for other reasons, the beach for instance.

The reason why its so contradictory, and needed to be pointed out, is that you are over here talking about how there is no guarantee of the monorail, that Disney doesn't owe it to you, etc etc. and therefore there is no need to compensate you. Except, over there, you suggested what makes it worth the extra money ... was ... the monorail !!! Come on, that's pretty hilarious, and a little hypocritical.

Notice when you were trying to argue for the value of a monorail resort vs others you didn't say "isn't it worth the extra money for a 90% chance at having a monorail up and running" YOU included the use of the monorail as part of the value you get for paying the premium price. Then over here take the exact opposite position.
We stay at monorail resorts for the monorail, but I certainly don't expect them to be running perfect 100% of the time. I guess I just don't really see what is so hilarious or contradictory.
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Old 10-12-2013, 08:04 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by andrewilley View Post
"Monorail resort" is a location description - like "Epcot Resort" - not a guarantee of service.


My only real criticism of Disney here is their lack of proper advanced communication to their guests. While they obviously seem to think that they have satisfactorily resolved the problem in advance by adding extra buses and boats, it seems crazy that they do not appear to have realised what the fan reaction was likely to be - fans don't see the monorail as just one of a series of transportation options.

Sure, they are not obliged to inform people of every amenity that won't be available (after all, it's rare than SOMETHING isn't being repaired, somewhere - and the possibilities are covered in the small print anyway) but it would have been good Guest Service.

Given that Disney have been trying so hard to data-mine and discover everything about us - including email addresses - for marketing purposes over the last few years, it seems odd that they wouldn't use that information for something that guests would actually find useful.

The opportunity to change resorts in advance if riding the monorail is a "deal breaker" for anyone would have gone a long way in helping to diffuse this situation.

Andre
Exactly. No one would argue that the monorail operating all day supersedes worker safety. Most people understand that there will be disruptions in any service that a resort offers, and that they may be unforeseen. I just do not understand why in this case, contacting guests was not an option. As I have posted earlier, Disney certainly has managed to contact me for a multitude of reasons, and so it would have been possible for them to provide advance notice in this case.
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Old 10-12-2013, 08:30 AM   #186
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Going to BLT CR I think you will arrive faster if you walk.
Taking the monorail you will have to go up the ramps to the monorail, wait for the monorail, ride either a short ride directly to BLT/Cr of make 3 stops on the way, depending on coming back or going. . Unload, then walk to your room or MK.

I am considering staying at BLT so I can walk my Grandchildren to MK.

Sorry for original poster as this would be a let down. I think things will work out once they get there. Maybe they will get some extra fast passes.
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Old 10-12-2013, 08:55 AM   #187
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On schedule???

the article at the link in the first post said the dates were starting October 6th for 2 weeks. Does anyone know if this is on schedule? Did it start on October 6th? Is it looking good to resume on the 21?

Thanks!
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Old 10-12-2013, 09:53 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by andrewilley View Post
..........The monorail is, whatever everyone else may wish it was, merely one of a series of amenities that the hotel offers. Same goes for swimming pools, restaurants, etc.
Currently, the WDW website has this to say about the Poly. I thought it was interesting that they felt it was important to point out that a portion of the beach would be closed but there is no mention at all about the monorail being closed during a good portion of the day for several weeks:


"Beginning September 9, 2013, access to the east portion of the beach near the Transportation and Ticket Centers well as Sunset Point will be unavailable due to a scheduled refurbishment. However, all other amenities will not be affected."
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Old 10-12-2013, 10:03 AM   #189
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Disney provides complimentary transportation. That means they're throwing it in for free. It's not guaranteed. Take a look at this link and see how many times they use the word complimentary, https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/pl...ransportation/. Now, I know nothing at WDW is free. The free mugs with the dining plan aren't free, free parking at your resort isn't free, free dining isn't free. You're paying for it one way or another. But Disney covers their butt by not guaranteeing anything. They're are masters at this.

So when you book a room at CR, GF, or Poly you are just booking a room at a Disney Resort and nothing else. You're not booking transportation.

BTW, this thread is hilarious.

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Old 10-12-2013, 04:11 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewilley View Post
What people think they are paying for, and expect that they are paying for, and get on soap-boxes demanding that they are paying for, does not always reflect what they are actually paying for.

Like it or not, booking a room at the Poly is just that - a Room at the Poly. You have not booked a room on a monorail, or a bus, or a boat, or even in the RV you have in the parking lot. The monorail is, whatever everyone else may wish it was, merely one of a series of amenities that the hotel offers. Same goes for swimming pools, restaurants, etc.

"Monorail resort" is a location description - like "Epcot Resort" - not a guarantee of service.

Would I personally be p---ed off if I arrived and found the monorail wasn't running due to maintenance work at the time I happened to be there? Sure, but it's just one of those unfortunate things.

We stayed at the Waldorf Astoria in New York a couple of years ago, and one lobby area was closed for renovation work and the whole hotel frontage had scaffolding over it so we had to use the rear entrance. Was I a little disappointed in our timing? Yep. Did I stand and rant at the front desk that I wanted compensation? Nope.


My only real criticism of Disney here is their lack of proper advanced communication to their guests. While they obviously seem to think that they have satisfactorily resolved the problem in advance by adding extra buses and boats, it seems crazy that they do not appear to have realised what the fan reaction was likely to be - fans don't see the monorail as just one of a series of transportation options.

Sure, they are not obliged to inform people of every amenity that won't be available (after all, it's rare than SOMETHING isn't being repaired, somewhere - and the possibilities are covered in the small print anyway) but it would have been good Guest Service.

Given that Disney have been trying so hard to data-mine and discover everything about us - including email addresses - for marketing purposes over the last few years, it seems odd that they wouldn't use that information for something that guests would actually find useful.

The opportunity to change resorts in advance if riding the monorail is a "deal breaker" for anyone would have gone a long way in helping to diffuse this situation.

Andre
I completely agree with you.

Small resort changes or constructions are almost constantly going on, and these things probably can't even be forecasted that far out. "Minor construction" that doesn't alter your view or access to the resort's amenities would also fall into this category. I'm not certain that the closure of a resort's restaurants, health club, arcades, or other amenities necessarily warrant a phone call.

However, I think Disney ought to communicate at least these three things ahead of time:
1) MAJOR resort construction / remodeling (severely affecting the guests' access to amenities)
2) Changes to transportation (closure of walkways to parks, monorails, or boats)
3) Pool closures.

I think those three things are pretty major, and I think most people would agree that those three things might be reasonably expected to affect a guest's choice of resorts.

Does Disney actually let guests know about these things? I don't know, but else where on this site there's a list of resort-related closures: http://www.wdwinfo.com/wdwinfo/rehab.htm

The most recent version of this page is dated October 7, and the monorail started closing October 6. Guests reported that the first time they heard about the closure was when announcements were slipped under their doors.
So, it's safe to say that the monorail closure wasn't announced ahead of time.

Interestingly enough, though, some things appear to be announced well ahead of time. For example, the Poly's Neverland Club is going to close for three months starting in January.

Apparently, Disney thinks that guests can adjust to transportation issues quite rapidly. They know that guests who walk to the monorail station only to find out that it's closed will be upset, so they wanted to notify them before they left their rooms.

Alternately, people need to know about the Neverland Club & make childcare arrangements well before they arrive.

Disney did announce that the Hidden Springs pool at WL will be closed. I'm not sure how much advance warning they gave, or if they contacted guests personally, but they did announce it. I think Tikiman said that the Poly pool will be closed in January for resurfacing, and the slide/volcano will be renovated, but they haven't announced that.


So, Disney does have a rhyme and reason for what they announce and when. Not everyone will agree with it - I can't say I do. But I think it's incorrect to say that Disney "dropped the ball" or imply that they forgot to inform guests about the monorail closure. It's more accurate to say that when it comes to transportation, Disney's policy is to provide alternate access to the parks rather than advance warning. If you're planning a trip to WDW, it would behoove you to expect changes and be flexible, rather than have unrealistic expectations and be angry. If you disagree with that policy, a phone call or e-mail to Disney ahead of time, asking them to change the policy, might help them to change their mind & let them know how important this is to you.
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Old 10-12-2013, 04:37 PM   #191
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We were there Oct 6 - the resort monorail was ONLY going to Contemporary and MK, and the express monorail wasn't very express. There was a huge line for both monorail and the ferry at TTC. We waited at least 40 minutes for the ferry. It was crazy.

Is there a reason why the monorail can't run during construction of GF villas? Do the villas have a separate Monorail station?
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Old 10-12-2013, 05:44 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by WDWChloe View Post
We were there Oct 6 - the resort monorail was ONLY going to Contemporary and MK, and the express monorail wasn't very express. There was a huge line for both monorail and the ferry at TTC. We waited at least 40 minutes for the ferry. It was crazy.

Is there a reason why the monorail can't run during construction of GF villas? Do the villas have a separate Monorail station?
What I heard was they are building a covered walkway beneath the monorail beams. It is dangerous to the workers to have construction equipment so close to the beams (electricity). The villas will use the GF station.

The villas are opening 10/23, so I'm sure it will be done by then.
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:41 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by WDWChloe View Post
We were there Oct 6 - the resort monorail was ONLY going to Contemporary and MK, and the express monorail wasn't very express. There was a huge line for both monorail and the ferry at TTC. We waited at least 40 minutes for the ferry. It was crazy.

Is there a reason why the monorail can't run during construction of GF villas? Do the villas have a separate Monorail station?
Just curious, was the resort monorail going back and forth between the MK and CR, or making the full loop abut only stoping at the CR and MK? And what about the Express monorail. Was it making a full loop?
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Old 10-13-2013, 07:03 PM   #194
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just to put things in perspective a little bit- circa 2000 I took the backstage tour of the railroad. It would have been in operation about 30 years at that point. They were very proud of the fact that it runs like a top. I forget exactly how they put it, but they said something along the lines that they've never missed a scheduled run. Meaning that unless they planned it they never stopped operation or even ran with less trains than planned.

While they probably wish the monorails were as reliable and they do at times have unforeseen issues. But this was planned for several days.

In that case it's a business decision when they PLAN to shut it down during the the day- it's just a way to save money. They didn't want to pay the overtime required to get the work done at night instead of in the middle of the day, plain and simple. That's their right (the monorail is NOT guaranteed) but when you skimp at your customers expense they have the same right to complain about it.

Anyone who's ever worked a construction job for a period of time has experience working oddball hours doing something at a time where it will not make as mush of a disruption.

Anywho, this all basically boils down to is Disney meeting their customers expectations or not. People expect certain things. They expect not to have unpopped kernels in their Disney popcorn. They expect that CM's will have smiles or at least not be surly (well unless at the hunted mansion). They expect that both sides of pirates will be open if there's an hour wait. They expect to see characters in the parks. They expect that basically they'll have a great time at WDW. None of that is guaranteed but if i get a popcorn and it's full of unpopped kernels I'm going back the stand and asking for a fresh one. The CM can decide if my request is reasonable or not. And I can decide if I think his/her response is reasonable or not. None of that is unreasonable.
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Old 10-13-2013, 08:24 PM   #195
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Just curious, was the resort monorail going back and forth between the MK and CR, or making the full loop abut only stoping at the CR and MK? And what about the Express monorail. Was it making a full loop?
It just goes back and forth on roughly 7 minute intervals
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