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Old 10-08-2013, 01:14 AM   #91
Aladora
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuet888 View Post
I realize it hasn't been implanted yet.

It does NOT seem like an evolving program to me, especially with people telling me it's here it's staying and get used to it.

Granted I'm not a fortune teller about the lines but I am using my knowledge of what we have went through in the past to get things do things and that's BEFORE this system is in effect and EVERYONE has to go to the same place makes it all the more worse.

Same thing with the kiosks.

It is difficult for me to say give it a chance when I already know what does and doesn't work for my son. Sure let's go all the way down there (getting my son excited in the process) and when we get there it's a nightmare my son has several meltdowns but I'll put him through all that just for me to confirm what I already know about my son, he can't do this. Forgive me for being "ranty" but I'm the only one who can when it comes to my son because he can't do it for himself.
The reason I called it an evolving program is that ever since the first hint of the new system was posted here, there have been constant updates to what people think and claim to know about how it is to be implemented. Just because it is here to stay does not mean it has not and will not continue to change and be worked on.

Some of the changes so far:

First, there were going to be kiosks in WDW and DL/DCA and you cannot get a return time at the attraction.

Then there were not going to be kiosks in WDW and you could get a return time at the attraction.

Then there were going to be kiosks in WDW but you could also get a return time at the attraction.

First you could only get a DAS for 1 day.

Then you could get it for up to 3 days if you were staying onsite.

Then you could get it for the length of your stay if you could prove you were staying for that length of time but AP holders could only get it for 1 day.

Then AP holders could get it for up to 3 days, then 5 days then 2 weeks.

First the DAS holder had to be at the kiosk to request a return time.

Then then DAS golder did not have to be at the kiosk to request a return time.

I could go on, but I hope you get my point about it evolving and that we just simply do not know what to expect on day 1 of the new system. We do not know what to expect on day 30 of the new system, nor on day 180.

And besides, I never said you should drag your son down and see how fast he melts down, what I said was that we should all wait and see how the program is actually implemented before we all fly off our collective handle. That was the wait and see, let's wait and see how Disneyland and Disney World actually handle this new system in reality as opposed to how we all fear they are going to handle it.

And then, at the end of the day if the new system absolutely will not work for you and your son then yes, by all means try and get a refund for the unused portion of your annual passes.

Of course, you should be an advocate for your son but preferential treatment is not something that should be expected or demanded. And really, what the old GAC was giving us was preferential treatment. The new DAS is giving us what we have always claimed to need, an alternate way to wait. We will now be able to wait in an area or manner that gives us equal access to attractions without giving us faster entrance. And if you can't see that, then I really don't have anything else I can say because no matter how much it might pain us to admit it, the old system was not equal access, it was better.
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Old 10-08-2013, 06:38 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuet888 View Post
I realize this may have gotten taken out of context but on the boards people were pointing out that Disney has solved nothing because there are still several ways to abuse the system, this led to an argument by a couple of people how and name one and after an argument the person named only one way but said there were several other way (but didn't go into details) they were not encouraging doing this in any sort of way and this was only said for this one guy to prove his point during an argument. That's all.
I think the proof thing is bull I think the very disabled people that created that law shot themselves in the foot because look at what it is causing. If you have to show proof of disability for something as serious as SSI or other things then why not show it for Disneylnad.
Disneyland boasts about being the biggest resort in the world and the CM's have said that if they were requiring proof they would have to hire a doctor to make judgements about the GAC cards, ya know what? Then hire one. If you are the biggest resort you have the money do it.
As has been said a few times, although there have been recent stories about abuse, the change has been in the works for quite a while and is more to do with the system being overwhelmed by people using it properly (using it in the manner it have evolved into) than to get rid of the abusers.

So, you complain about possibly having to wait 20 minutes to get a pass, but you'd be okay with the hours (or days) it would take if they hired a doctor to make judgments about the cards? No way a doctor can look at someone and tell how disabled they are. Think about how many months it takes for the SSI proof to be made.

I'm also confused about your comparison of SSI and a GAC. I have no problem with providing as much proof as necessary to get our version of the SSI (though none of the people I travel to WDW with would qualify), but I'm not going to go through all those hoops just to tour WDW/DL. Your comment says it for you - the SSI is something serious, the DAS/GAS is not.
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Old 10-08-2013, 03:01 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Aladora View Post
The reason I called it an evolving program is that ever since the first hint of the new system was posted here, there have been constant updates to what people think and claim to know about how it is to be implemented. Just because it is here to stay does not mean it has not and will not continue to change and be worked on.

Some of the changes so far:

First, there were going to be kiosks in WDW and DL/DCA and you cannot get a return time at the attraction.

Then there were not going to be kiosks in WDW and you could get a return time at the attraction.

Then there were going to be kiosks in WDW but you could also get a return time at the attraction.

First you could only get a DAS for 1 day.

Then you could get it for up to 3 days if you were staying onsite.

Then you could get it for the length of your stay if you could prove you were staying for that length of time but AP holders could only get it for 1 day.

Then AP holders could get it for up to 3 days, then 5 days then 2 weeks.

First the DAS holder had to be at the kiosk to request a return time.

Then then DAS golder did not have to be at the kiosk to request a return time.

I could go on, but I hope you get my point about it evolving and that we just simply do not know what to expect on day 1 of the new system. We do not know what to expect on day 30 of the new system, nor on day 180.

And besides, I never said you should drag your son down and see how fast he melts down, what I said was that we should all wait and see how the program is actually implemented before we all fly off our collective handle. That was the wait and see, let's wait and see how Disneyland and Disney World actually handle this new system in reality as opposed to how we all fear they are going to handle it.

And then, at the end of the day if the new system absolutely will not work for you and your son then yes, by all means try and get a refund for the unused portion of your annual passes.

Of course, you should be an advocate for your son but preferential treatment is not something that should be expected or demanded. And really, what the old GAC was giving us was preferential treatment. The new DAS is giving us what we have always claimed to need, an alternate way to wait. We will now be able to wait in an area or manner that gives us equal access to attractions without giving us faster entrance. And if you can't see that, then I really don't have anything else I can say because no matter how much it might pain us to admit it, the old system was not equal access, it was better.
So very well put, thank you.
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:22 PM   #94
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Let's please remember to be civil and keep the thread on topic, so that the mods don't have to close the thread. It is supposed to bet here to discuss the changes and learn how they affect us, not to attack one another.
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:16 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuet888 View Post
I think the proof thing is bull I think the very disabled people that created that law shot themselves in the foot because look at what it is causing. If you have to show proof of disability for something as serious as SSI or other things then why not show it for Disneylnad.
As has been explained many times in this forum for years, the reason Disney cannot require proof is that the DAS is designed to facilitate EQUAL access. Things that are SPECIAL access, such as disabled parking, SSDI, etc - those are not things the general public has access to.

Disneyland IS something the general public has access to, therefore, no proof can be required. I can give a whole list of reasons why proof cannot be required, but most of them come down to this - The law was not written for Disney - it was written for everywhere! And I am NOT carrying proof with me everywhere I go stating I really do need my wheelchair. And managers cannot require proof at Target when you go to buy groceries that your child really is autistic, and not just badly behaved, to allow you into the store. There are a million scenarios.

Anyway - yes, people will come up with ways to abuse the system, but most will lose interest when they do not get instant access.
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:33 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuet888 View Post
I realize it hasn't been implanted yet.

It does NOT seem like an evolving program to me, especially with people telling me it's here it's staying and get used to it.

Disney isn't solving anything.
Two things about the above quoted post-

One, it is an evolving system, as I stated in an earlier post. A Guest Relations manager said that they have changed parts of the system several times over the last 10 days.

Yes, the DAS system is here (tomorrow) and is here to stay. They will NOT go back to the GAC system, but that does not mean the DAS rules that go out Day One will stay the same forever. Of course they will learn as time goes on, and alter the system in small ways.



Two, Disney is solving a great many things, they are just not solving it in a way you prefer for your family.


And now a third, unrelated topic...
Three, I have seen a great many things going around about how maybe in the future Disney will allow two DAS return times, etc. Such speculation may make us feel better, but PLEASE remember it is speculation.

Also, there has been speculation that kids who do not understand waiting or cannot wait due to autism will get faster access. I want to make it clear that Disney has absolutely NO intention on having different "levels" of DAS, especially one based on diagnosis. I can give three quick reasons for that:
  • One, I have ADHD and sensory processing problems and I have been told that may, according to some doctors put me on the spectrum. Therefore I qualify. They cannot pick out one diagnosis without picking out others "like" it.
  • Two, how do you think the GAC system broke? People found out what gave them the "best" access and then went to GR and said they had that!
  • Three, well, my friend she cannot stand or sit upright (that's right, wheelchair does not help at all) due to a rare condition she only has because of another rare condition, for more than 2-3 hours, and only about 1 in the heat. That is "worse" than autism, right?

Of course I do not think we can rank diagnoses, and my above statement is simply an example of how Disney is not going to pick one sub-group to get different or "better" DAS service.

Disney may well adapt the DAS system in the future, to allow for more Return Times at once during more crowded times, or allow for one "E" ticket wait, and another "not as popular" ride wait time. There are many options they are looking at for the future.

Right now, however, we have the system we have. And we must actually use that system, try it, and if it does not work for our family, then write to Disney about it. Disney is NOT going to change the system by tomorrow - they are more interested in hearing experiences, not pre-judgements.
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:44 PM   #97
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And, finally, a warning -

Please keep things civil. There have been personal attacks based on people not completely reading the posts of others. Even if you have completely read the post, there will be NO personal attacks of any kind. If you feel the post is inappropriate or damaging, please report it. I can promise you all Sue and I have been doing for the last 2 weeks with our free time is deal with this issue, and we will get to it.

If you have been attacked by someone, please do not reply to them on the thread. Please report the post, and we will deal with it. Even if you were the initial victim of an attack, if you attack the poster personally in return, warnings and points WILL be handed out to both parties.

Also, from this point on, no quotes from or links to other forums will be allowed. I have updated the first post, with the guidelines for this forum, to reflect this. I am also copying the rules here once more, as people seem to have forgotten some of them in the heated debate. I have bolded the new new addition, as well as one particular guideline that is important if this thread is to remain helpful to people with questions.

1) Follow the Disboards posting guidelines
No sarcasm, no personal attacks, no name-calling. In other words, play nice. As Thumper's mom said, "If you don't have something nice to say...don't say nothing at all."

2) Be respectful of others. Many people are afraid of the unknown and are feeling very vulnerable right now. People have different disabilities/needs and different comfort levels about their disabilities. Because this is a new & unfamiliar way of doing things, people are concerned.

3) No debates:
  • about whether Disney is right or wrong
  • about whether a change was needed
  • about asking for a doctor's letter or proof of disability
  • about any particular disability being worse/more disabled/truly disabled/more in need of accommodation.
4) No posting of links to blogs, other forums, quotes from other forums or petitions - We want this to be a helpful thread, not a list of people who are panicked and not willing to give the new program a try. If you want to share those, send them by Private Message or email to your friends. If you are unsure about whether such a quote or post from another source would be helpful to the thread, please send it to the moderators.

Thank you for your understanding of these rules.
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Old 10-08-2013, 06:38 PM   #98
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KPeveler, I would like to thank both you and SueM for doing all that you do.

This is definitely a topic that get become uncivilized very fast, so I can only imagine how hard it is for you guys to stay on top of all of this. But, it is nice to have a place to come and not worry about all of the bad stuff that many other places focus on, but rather get the facts about the system. Thanks to this board, I know largely what to expect and I knew what questions I needed to ask when I emailed Disney directly. Without that, I would be a lot more concerned about the new system. The information you have here, combined with the information I have received directly from Disney definitely makes me less concerned about the new system.

I'm not saying that I don't have any concerns, I do, but they are now fewer at least.
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Old 10-08-2013, 06:46 PM   #99
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"Many people are afraid of the unknown and are feeling very vulnerable right now."

Thank you for posting that KPeveler. I think that really defines what I am feeling right now. As I've said many times before I am the only one who knows what works and doesn't work for my child and I kind of feel like Disney came in and said here, this is what works for your child. I am feeling very vulnerable right now and I don't like feeling that way especially when it comes to my son as I am the only one who can stick up for him. So please understand that from my point of view. Please. In the meantime I am going to take a break from this thread as it is stressing me out in all honesty.
And thank you admins for taking care of that other problem.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:58 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aladora View Post
Of course, you should be an advocate for your son but preferential treatment is not something that should be expected or demanded. And really, what the old GAC was giving us was preferential treatment. The new DAS is giving us what we have always claimed to need, an alternate way to wait. We will now be able to wait in an area or manner that gives us equal access to attractions without giving us faster entrance. And if you can't see that, then I really don't have anything else I can say because no matter how much it might pain us to admit it, the old system was not equal access, it was better.
Amen! Good for you. I'm tired of reading all of the complaints (they are SO bad on facebook).
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:06 PM   #101
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And the complaints are worse in park...

I am recently back from the park and no one is giving out any information, unless you happen to have a good connection. One of these people with a connection told me today that Disneyland would be using Wheelchair Return Cards at select attractions in Disneyland Park only (of course, everything in DCA is accessible).

Apparently the goal of these cards is to eliminate the long wheelchair lines at non-mainstreamed lines. (Whether that happens remains to be seen).

This contradicts what I heard earlier this week, but that does not surprise me.

So! If you are going to DL tomorrow be ready for there to be Wheelchair Return Cards being given out at "select attractions" - I do not know which ones they are! I was not told this directly by Guest Relations, but I trust the person.

I am not sure what this means, who qualifies as needing a "Wheelchair Return Card" (some sort of visual cue I expect) - I will keep updating as this moves forward.
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:17 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KPeveler View Post
And the complaints are worse in park...

I am recently back from the park and no one is giving out any information, unless you happen to have a good connection. One of these people with a connection told me today that Disneyland would be using Wheelchair Return Cards at select attractions in Disneyland Park only (of course, everything in DCA is accessible).

Apparently the goal of these cards is to eliminate the long wheelchair lines at non-mainstreamed lines. (Whether that happens remains to be seen).

This contradicts what I heard earlier this week, but that does not surprise me.

So! If you are going to DL tomorrow be ready for there to be Wheelchair Return Cards being given out at "select attractions" - I do not know which ones they are! I was not told this directly by Guest Relations, but I trust the person.

I am not sure what this means, who qualifies as needing a "Wheelchair Return Card" (some sort of visual cue I expect) - I will keep updating as this moves forward.
I updated post one of this thread.

The wheelchair return cards you mention were actually in one of the earlier Disney releases. So, not new.

They were actually mentioned in information I had gotten about 2 weeks ago.
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:23 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SueM in MN View Post
I updated post one of this thread.

The wheelchair return cards you mention were actually in one of the earlier Disney releases. So, not new.

They were actually mentioned in information I had gotten about 2 weeks ago.
I had just had confirmation from multiple sources that DL was not doing the cards, but things must have still been in flux.

Doesn't really matter - they are happening, so I just wanted to confirm it, even if someone (even me) was told something different in the parks...
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:52 PM   #104
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A good couple of reminders:

Everything is going to be new for guests using the new program, but also for CMs, so please everyone be patient with CMs and other guests.

There are people (like the protesters that are apparently coming to DL) who are hoping the program fails and really not giving it a chance. I just hope no one gets hurt out of all this.

One final reminder, the first few days and weeks are going to be the hardest because everything is just getting settled. It probably won't be all worked out for a while. Anyone going in the near future should expect waits and some snafus - expecting everything to roll out completely smoothly would be kind of like going shopping on Black Friday and expecting the stores to be completely empty - it's just not going to happen.
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:59 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by SueM in MN View Post
Everything is going to be new for guests using the new program, but also for CMs, so please everyone be patient with CMs and other guests.
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