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Old 08-14-2013, 01:23 PM   #31
mjkacmom
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My kids have these drills, plus a few "real" lockdowns. It doesn't bother them in the least - just like fire drills. Back in the day, kids had to go under their desks for the bomb threat drills (and all of our schools still have bomb shelters).

Considering the dangerous conditions in other countries, our kids have it made.
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:30 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by DVCJones View Post
Teachers do not need a gun to keep children safer. Proper training and tools like bullet proof doors/ locks and exits would do a lot. Also training to use what is already in the classroom to protect yourself. Imagine what 20+ chairs, books, desks etc. flying in the direction of a shooter could do. You may get lucky and knock the gun out of their hand. Even better maybe knock them out or at the very least get some kids out of the room. It is all about creating opportunity and time to cut down casualties.
There are definitely any number of non-lethal options for fighting back. I would never want my child (or their teacher) to sit back and accept their fate, so to speak.

Get away if you can; fight back if you cannot.
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:36 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by DVCJones View Post
That 'lockdown' procedure is all well and good IF the threat is outside the building. However, that would be the wrong thing to do if the threat was IN the building.

There is a new school of thought (no pun intended) that the safest thing to do in the event of an active shooter is to first, GET OUT if you can. Hide/barricade if you can't get out and Lastly, fight back as a last resort. In short... Don't be a sitting duck and wait your turn to be shot.

Most of these tragic events are over in minutes. Usually when the police arrive the bad guy takes himself out. Teachers need to be trained in evacuation, and what to do if you can't. Things like creating time between you and the bad guy... By slowing the bad guy down, you lower the casualties. The sad truth though it that they are there to do damage. And they will. Teachers and administration need to know how to cut down the casualties. Even if it means... <gasp> taking the bad guy out!!!!

Oddly enough, at this moment, they are talking about this very thing on TV.....
A middle school teacher friend of mine showed me a form that she was given at a staff meeting on the first day of teacher work week ( week prior to students first day). Our schools have had lock down drills for years but this form was disturbing.

The form, called the Classroom Active Intruder Plan, requires her to list students, by name, that can assist during lock down drills by doing the following tasks: helping others stay calm, barricading the door and attacking the intruder.

I am angered as a parent and as a teacher.

Placing the expectation upon a child that it is their job to attack an intruder? Really? Gotta wonder how this is going to be introduced in the classroom, "Who wants to hand out papers? Who wants to attack a person with a gun? ".

Asking a teacher to designate which students will be the attacking force is so wrong. In addition to all the other expectations placed on teachers, these professionals are being instructed to decide which students to put directly in harm's way.

I have already called the superintendent's office to register my objections.
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:37 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by rwdavis2 View Post
Are any of you old enough to have done an air raid drill in school in the 60's?
Older - In the early 50s we had to go out in the hall and crouch against the wall in case a nuclear bomb hit.

This was only about 6-7 years after the Japanese bombings that we all saw pictures of over and over again.
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:08 PM   #35
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Yikes.
Why is training yikes?
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:10 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garada3 View Post
A middle school teacher friend of mine showed me a form that she was given at a staff meeting on the first day of teacher work week ( week prior to students first day). Our schools have had lock down drills for years but this form was disturbing.

The form, called the Classroom Active Intruder Plan, requires her to list students, by name, that can assist during lock down drills by doing the following tasks: helping others stay calm, barricading the door and attacking the intruder.

I am angered as a parent and as a teacher.

Placing the expectation upon a child that it is their job to attack an intruder? Really? Gotta wonder how this is going to be introduced in the classroom, "Who wants to hand out papers? Who wants to attack a person with a gun? ".

Asking a teacher to designate which students will be the attacking force is so wrong. In addition to all the other expectations placed on teachers, these professionals are being instructed to decide which students to put directly in harm's way.

I have already called the superintendent's office to register my objections.
Okay, fair enough. But, do you have a better plan you can submit?
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:10 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by DVCJones View Post
Teachers do not need a gun to keep children safer. Proper training and tools like bullet proof doors/ locks and exits would do a lot. Also training to use what is already in the classroom to protect yourself. Imagine what 20+ chairs, books, desks etc. flying in the direction of a shooter could do. You may get lucky and knock the gun out of their hand. Even better maybe knock them out or at the very least get some kids out of the room. It is all about creating opportunity and time to cut down casualties.

At what cost?

Do you know what a bullet proof door/window cost?

And what good do they do when the shooter is in the room?

Newtown was the exception and not the rule. The majority of school shootings are small in causalities and the shooter is a STUDENT.
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:16 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by garada3 View Post
A middle school teacher friend of mine showed me a form that she was given at a staff meeting on the first day of teacher work week ( week prior to students first day). Our schools have had lock down drills for years but this form was disturbing.

The form, called the Classroom Active Intruder Plan, requires her to list students, by name, that can assist during lock down drills by doing the following tasks: helping others stay calm, barricading the door and attacking the intruder.

I am angered as a parent and as a teacher.

Placing the expectation upon a child that it is their job to attack an intruder? Really? Gotta wonder how this is going to be introduced in the classroom, "Who wants to hand out papers? Who wants to attack a person with a gun? ".

Asking a teacher to designate which students will be the attacking force is so wrong. In addition to all the other expectations placed on teachers, these professionals are being instructed to decide which students to put directly in harm's way.

I have already called the superintendent's office to register my objections.
I agree this is bad... however teachers should think of some of these types of things... Like which students might be able to stay calm and which ones are strong enough to move things to barricade a door quickly. Also what you have in the room that would work well for attacks or for protection.

Example a question on what would happen was asked in one high school class I had. This was a chem class. Teachers response is the first thing she is doing is turning the gas off to the lab stations (so they dont' get shot and blow us all up) Then we would all get to the back with the chemical cabinent to hand out fun things to throw at intruders if they came in. It was behind a lab table so nicly protected if you stayed down, clear shot of the door if you stood and had a few nice acids and stuff in there...

Didn't surpise me that she one of a few teachers with a good response... she taught at a school once where a student pulled a gun in the middle of her class. This wasn't new for her. (Although in that case she just talked him down and got the gun as it was a student with issues and not a random guy that was already shooting)
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:17 PM   #39
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Sad, but another vote for this not being a new problem. I vividly remember a lock down at school when I was in fourth grade (1969?) An escaped convict ran across our playground while we were at recess. I spoke to him. Police cars were suddenly surrounding the playground. The teachers got us indoors as quickly as possible. I think having a plan in place would give the kids a little bit of a feeling of control, knowing what to do.
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:40 PM   #40
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Media Sensationalizing needs to stop first and formost .... these type of stories are only going to get worse if we keep putting these sick people on the cover of the rolling stone!!
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Old 08-14-2013, 03:01 PM   #41
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Last year when dd14 started high school: about a month into school, we get a robo call about a kid had a guy with a gun try to rob him in the bathroom. No lock down at all. He was a part time student and later turned himself in. The school had a lot of flack because they didn't lock down.

In elementary school, dd came hone and said they were put on lock down because of a student. Cops had to be called to get him, since we now live in a society where staff can't touch a kid. Then a letter was sent home in general that it was locked down for the students and FOR the student who went off the rails, wow how PC
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Old 08-14-2013, 03:12 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Gumbo4x4 View Post
Okay, fair enough. But, do you have a better plan you can submit?
The district uses the same type of lock down plans as described by other posters: doors locked, lights off, door windows covered etc. The designation of students for certain roles is new to the plan this year. I wonder if parents will be made aware their child has been selected or will a child be allowed to opt out of being expected to attack an intruder? Will those selected be provided with training?

Not sure there is a way to improve the plan, short of retrofitting schools as giant safe rooms.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kamik86 View Post
I agree this is bad... however teachers should think of some of these types of things... Like which students might be able to stay calm and which ones are strong enough to move things to barricade a door quickly. Also what you have in the room that would work well for attacks or for protection.

Example a question on what would happen was asked in one high school class I had. This was a chem class. Teachers response is the first thing she is doing is turning the gas off to the lab stations (so they dont' get shot and blow us all up) Then we would all get to the back with the chemical cabinent to hand out fun things to throw at intruders if they came in. It was behind a lab table so nicly protected if you stayed down, clear shot of the door if you stood and had a few nice acids and stuff in there...

Didn't surpise me that she one of a few teachers with a good response... she taught at a school once where a student pulled a gun in the middle of her class. This wasn't new for her. (Although in that case she just talked him down and got the gun as it was a student with issues and not a random guy that was already shooting)
I am a middle school teacher and I have thought of what I would do ( or what I hope I would find the courage to do) in my classroom in a crisis situation in addition to the established procedures. But trying to figure out which 12 year old should have to execute the plan along side the teacher is a burden that should not be placed on educators.
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Old 08-14-2013, 03:26 PM   #43
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Yes, we have needed to address it in our house when our then 7yo told us they had a drill on what to do "if a bad man with a gun came in the school".

I cried when he told me that he would hide in the closet so he would not get shot

He never once saw footage about the school shooting last December, but his big sister was at a mall and had to run from a gunman just 2 weeks prior to the school shooting.
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Old 08-14-2013, 03:55 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by garada3 View Post
The district uses the same type of lock down plans as described by other posters: doors locked, lights off, door windows covered etc. The designation of students for certain roles is new to the plan this year. I wonder if parents will be made aware their child has been selected or will a child be allowed to opt out of being expected to attack an intruder? Will those selected be provided with training?

Not sure there is a way to improve the plan, short of retrofitting schools as giant safe rooms.




I am a middle school teacher and I have thought of what I would do ( or what I hope I would find the courage to do) in my classroom in a crisis situation in addition to the established procedures. But trying to figure out which 12 year old should have to execute the plan along side the teacher is a burden that should not be placed on educators.
As opposed to the burden of living with yourself knowing a plan you thought to be too tough to implement could have saved some of your students?

The plan to me appears to be the next level to be implemented when all else fails. Seems pretty simple to me:

Teacher is away from the door, the task of locking it falls to the student closest to the door.

Door fails to hold, the task of rushing the attacker falls on the front row (using their desks as both shields and as weapons).

If you as the teacher are uncomfortable assigning that to specific students, you rotate your kids weekly to new seats. Row 1 moves to row 2, 2 to 3, back row to front.

As a parent of a 12-year-old going into middle school, I hate the idea of my child having to possibly defend her classmates against an attacker. Know what I hate even more? The idea that that task has been assigned to nobody.
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Old 08-14-2013, 04:06 PM   #45
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[QUOTE=ORMom2Four;49283806]Yes, we have needed to address it in our house when our then 7yo told us they had a drill on what to do "if a bad man with a gun came in the school".

I cried when he told me that he would hide in the closet so he would not get shot

He never once saw footage about the school shooting last December, but his big sister was at a mall and had to run from a gunman just 2 weeks prior to the school shooting.[

I know it was heart breaking to hear that come out of your child's mouth.
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