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Old 07-03-2013, 09:15 PM   #31
mom2mickeyfan
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Originally Posted by KatieCharlotte View Post
When they have bought toys, the quality was very poor.
We have found this also. We won't let our DS get toys from Disney anymore because they always break and after very little use. We get books, CDs, DVDs and shirts now.
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Old 07-04-2013, 11:01 AM   #32
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Please dont Flame Me But:

180 days out I make all ADR's for 10 day trip. now I make all FP+ that I am allowed (3 per day). Now I have arrived for my 10 day vacation???
First thing I have to take out my schedule, must be at this ride and that ride at certain times, must be at specific restaurant at specific time.
Tell me how is this a nice relaxing vacation taking the time to smell the roses as the expression goes.
Maybe I'm dumb, but have been to Disney every year for the last 20+ and have never made ADR's and never used fast pass.
You know what, I have a wonderful relaxing vacation just going with the flow.
I look at all the ambieance and enjoy relaxing in the parks.
Am I crazy or just plain smart?
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Old 07-04-2013, 11:44 AM   #33
Purplebaby1216
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Originally Posted by figment13 View Post
180 days out I make all ADR's for 10 day trip. now I make all FP+ that I am allowed (3 per day). Now I have arrived for my 10 day vacation???
First thing I have to take out my schedule, must be at this ride and that ride at certain times, must be at specific restaurant at specific time.
Tell me how is this a nice relaxing vacation taking the time to smell the roses as the expression goes.
Maybe I'm dumb, but have been to Disney every year for the last 20+ and have never made ADR's and never used fast pass.
You know what, I have a wonderful relaxing vacation just going with the flow.
I look at all the ambieance and enjoy relaxing in the parks.
Am I crazy or just plain smart?
Exactly! We are going for the first time ever next month with my two dd (one is 5 and one is 10), my husband, my father, and myself....the guys have made it very clear to me that they do NOT WANT me scheduling ADR's etc etc because they want to stop and eat when they want to and not have to be at a certain park at a certain time etc etc. I did schedule ONE ADR and that was so the girls could have breakfast with the princesses at Cinderella's table half way through our trip. Other then that, we will probably take advantage of fp while in the parks but not by prescheduling everything in advancce.
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Old 07-04-2013, 01:46 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by figment13 View Post
180 days out I make all ADR's for 10 day trip. now I make all FP+ that I am allowed (3 per day). Now I have arrived for my 10 day vacation???
First thing I have to take out my schedule, must be at this ride and that ride at certain times, must be at specific restaurant at specific time.
Tell me how is this a nice relaxing vacation taking the time to smell the roses as the expression goes.
Maybe I'm dumb, but have been to Disney every year for the last 20+ and have never made ADR's and never used fast pass.
You know what, I have a wonderful relaxing vacation just going with the flow.
I look at all the ambieance and enjoy relaxing in the parks.
Am I crazy or just plain smart?
It sort of depends on your faith in Disney to leave enough ride capacity to get a decent number of standby folks through the line every hour. What works on one trip won't work on the next trip if Disney decides to issue more and more fastpasses, making that standby line go slower and slower. There has been a lot of speculation and anecdotal reports that this is exactly what Disney has been doing over the past year.
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Old 07-04-2013, 01:51 PM   #35
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This whole debate (fastpass, no fastpass, FP+) and how to "solve" the wait problem can all be boiled down to simple facts

Magic Kingdom has current capacity of XXXXX rides per hour
(I believe I read that X is 20,000 on easywdw.com our maybe yourfirstvisit.net, but the specific number doesn't matter for this explanation).

If there are 20,000 people in the park then each person will get 1 ride per hour. If there are 40,000 people in the park each person will get 1 ride every two hours. If there are 10,000 people each person gets 2 rides per hour (you get the point).

Now, some attractions (Space Mountain, Peter Pan) are "better" than others (Tiki Room, Hall of Presidents). So some people choose to have fewer rides in a day but at "better" rides. So maybe if there are 20,000 people which means 1 ride per hour per guest some people choose to ride Peter Pan once every other hour and the people who go to Country Bears can also see Hall of Presidents, Stiches Great Escape, and Carousel of Progress in that two hours where the first person only saw Peter Pan.

This is all a supply (# of rides all attractions are capable of pumping out per hour) vs demand (# of people in the park) issue.

FP, FP+, no FP doesn't change this equation. The only thing that will give the average guest more rides per day is greater capacity.

Let's suppose there are 20,000 people with 20,000 capacity. Over 8 hours a guest can ride 8 attractions. Each attraction takes 10 minutes. So that means the guest spends 80 minutes riding and 560 minutes doing X. Disney's idea with FP and FP+ is that X will become "browsing in stores or eating in restaurants". In reality X has become "wait in lines at other rides and try to squeeze 10 rides over 8 hours instead of 8 rides over 8 hours).

The only solution to Supply vs Demand is to increase supply or decrease demand. Until Disney increases the number of rides per hour the average wait per guest won't change. FP, FP+, do nothing to change this reality.

I personally think they should go back to the days before FP. I personally preferred it back then. Yes you always had to wait in a line for anything, but at least the lines were always moving forward. Now standby is horrible. You just stand there for 10 minutes, then you walk forward for 5 minutes, then stand for 10 minutes. Compare your standby wait experience at Big Thunder Mountain vs Pirates or Haunted Mansion. At Pirates or HM you are always moving. It's a much better feeling to be moving forward than to be standing still like you do at BTMRR or Peter Pan.



If I know I'm getting 1 ride per hour I'd prefer the "constantly moving forward" experience of No Fastpass vs the "sometimes I jump the line with my FP but other times I stand there in a horribly hot and uncomfortable line at Peter Pan watching all the FP people cut in front of me" experience.

Last edited by DVCcurious; 07-04-2013 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 07-04-2013, 01:58 PM   #36
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The only solution to Supply vs Demand is to increase supply or decrease demand. Until Disney increases the number of rides per hour the average wait per guest won't change. FP, FP+, do nothing to change this reality.
False.

In theory, all rides at all attractions could be pre-booked with FP or FP+ (i.e., no SB line at all). If that was done properly, then no one would wait more than 5 minutes for any ride. That's without changing "supply and demand," as you argue. It is done by more efficiently allocating people across rides via FP+, rather than via SB.

Now, in practice this might not work (it certainly wouldn't work perfectly, but nothing ever does). But your argument that it can't even work in theory isn't correct.

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Old 07-04-2013, 02:15 PM   #37
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Now, in practice this might not work (it certainly wouldn't work perfectly, but nothing ever does). But your argument that it can't even work in theory isn't correct.
The "virtual queue" theory doesn't translate well into reality. I'm not going too far out on a limb saying they will never, ever reach a point where all rides are pre-arranged, no matter how hard they might try to make that happen.

I don't believe it would work very well even if someone created a theme park from the ground up designed to have no lines, and only used virtual queues across every attraction.

There will always be plenty of people who refuse to be "efficiently allocated".
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:18 PM   #38
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Let's suppose there are 20,000 people with 20,000 capacity. Over 8 hours a guest can ride 8 attractions. Each attraction takes 10 minutes. So that means the guest spends 80 minutes riding and 560 minutes doing X.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:19 PM   #39
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The "virtual queue" theory doesn't translate well into reality. I'm not going too far out on a limb saying they will never, ever reach a point where all rides are pre-arranged, no matter how hard they might try to make that happen.

I don't believe it would work very well even if someone created a theme park from the ground up designed to have no lines, and only used virtual queues across every attraction.

There will always be plenty of people who refuse to be "efficiently allocated".
Maybe, but I think that you're being too pessimistic.

Restaurants have been using "virtual queues" (i.e. reservations) for a long time, and the system seems to work pretty well. There are plenty of popular restaurants where you can't get a table if you don't reserve a table weeks or months in advance. Why should rides be any different?
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:29 PM   #40
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Maybe, but I think that you're being too pessimistic.

Restaurants have been using "virtual queues" (i.e. reservations) for a long time, and the system seems to work pretty well. There are plenty of popular restaurants where you can't get a table if you don't reserve a table weeks or months in advance. Why should rides be any different?
Mainly because it's what people expect from an existing park experience.

I wouldn't mind seeing someone open a park that was all virtual lines, as long as there were actually enough activities/experiences while you were "waiting in line" to have fun in between "attractions". If it was the plan from the beginning, expectations are different.

I just don't believe they can efficiently transition an existing park with standby lines to one with no standby lines.
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:38 PM   #41
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Maybe, but I think that you're being too pessimistic.

Restaurants have been using "virtual queues" (i.e. reservations) for a long time, and the system seems to work pretty well. There are plenty of popular restaurants where you can't get a table if you don't reserve a table weeks or months in advance. Why should rides be any different?
One downside to having everything pre-booked is that since guests do have definite preferences about rides/attractions if no FP+ were available for when they wanted to go, they might just decide not to go to Disney and go somewhere else instead.
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:38 PM   #42
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Mainly because it's what people expect from an existing park experience.

I wouldn't mind seeing someone open a park that was all virtual lines, as long as there were actually enough activities/experiences while you were "waiting in line" to have fun in between "attractions". If it was the plan from the beginning, expectations are different.

I just don't believe they can efficiently transition an existing park with standby lines to one with no standby lines.
I think you're right. I wasn't arguing that it's going to happen; I was arguing that it could happen, and in particular I was taking issue with a bad argument made by a previous poster.

While I doubt that WDW will ever become a theme park where all attractions must be pre-booked, it doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility to imagine that some attractions will require pre-booking and have no SB queue (TSMM, Soarin', maybe Mine Train when it opens).

To extend my earlier analogy: every meal at CRT must be pre-booked (6 months in advance!), so why couldn't it be the case that every ride at TSMM must be pre-booked? There are plenty of other restaurants and plenty of other rides for guests who don't pre-book.
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:42 PM   #43
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I think you're right. I wasn't arguing that it's going to happen; I was arguing that it could happen, and in particular I was taking issue with a bad argument made by a previous poster.
I got it. :

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To extend my earlier analogy: every meal at CRT must be pre-booked (6 months in advance!), so why couldn't it be the case that every ride at TSMM must be pre-booked? There are plenty of other restaurants and plenty of other rides for guests who don't pre-book.
I could see it, but would you want to be the CM talking to the family that didn't pre-book TSMM?
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:45 PM   #44
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I could see it, but would you want to be the CM talking to the family that didn't pre-book TSMM?
Maybe it could be the same CM who currently talks to the families that didn't pre-book CRT?

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Old 07-04-2013, 02:56 PM   #45
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We don't normally plan trips 6months out, so I'm worried about the availability. You shouldn't have to book a RIDE at a THEME PARK that far out. I wonder if it means we will never ride TSM again. I won't stand in those lines.
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