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Old 06-21-2013, 08:01 PM   #31
theelfqueen
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And Walt would say "This is about money, ask Roy."
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Old 06-22-2013, 12:53 PM   #32
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Considering Walt allowed someone to sell women's bras on main street I think he'd be ok with a coffee joint
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Old 06-22-2013, 10:06 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by godolphin123 View Post
A piece of Main Street themeing bites the dust. Gimme a bakery over a coffee house any day. Starbucks is ok in a pinch but for those of us who like it straight up strong and black it's a mediocre cup.
Having lived in a town of 1,500 the coffee shop was the center of socializing and discussing the events of the day. We had to drive 20 miles to a town large enough for a bakery and then we went to the coffee shop to have a cup of coffee with it.

Starbucks is light years ahead of Nescafe instant that has had the WDW coffee concession for ~40 years. I can't wait to have a decent cup of coffee in the World.

Corporate tie-ins? Coca-Cola, Edy's, Kodak, McDonald's(at one time), etc. Heck most of it is a tie-in to Disney movies and merchandise.

Walt would have made it an Irish coffee.
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Old 06-23-2013, 08:24 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by MJMcBride View Post
Considering Walt allowed someone to sell women's bras on main street I think he'd be ok with a coffee joint
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Old 06-23-2013, 08:25 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Q-man View Post
Having lived in a town of 1,500 the coffee shop was the center of socializing and discussing the events of the day. We had to drive 20 miles to a town large enough for a bakery and then we went to the coffee shop to have a cup of coffee with it.

Starbucks is light years ahead of Nescafe instant that has had the WDW coffee concession for ~40 years. I can't wait to have a decent cup of coffee in the World.

Corporate tie-ins? Coca-Cola, Edy's, Kodak, McDonald's(at one time), etc. Heck most of it is a tie-in to Disney movies and merchandise.

Walt would have made it an Irish coffee.
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Old 06-23-2013, 08:30 AM   #36
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Where is the outrage over this?

http://disneyland.disney.go.com/disn...arnation-cafe/
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Old 06-23-2013, 08:58 AM   #37
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~I just want to address the Casey's Corner & Plaza Ice Cream that's constantly thrown around on these boards as some kind of justification for what was done to bakery. It isn't. I'm happy for those who are thrilled about Starbucks, but for me there was only one Main Street Bakery while Starbucks is comprised of over 21,000 worldwide and of that over 13,000 are USA locations.

~Anyway, using Casey's Corner and Plaza Ice Cream is like just like Liberty Tree Tavern -- it's still apples and oranges, actually LTT is the best of the three, at least "Tavern" is more specific. "Corner" is an ambiguous term that can easily encompass any variety of salable goods. They could sell Beats headphones here and no one would care.
This is all well and good, but I don't see the majority of people saying they're disappointed that a bakery was replaced with a coffee shop (though certainly those folks can be found). Mostly I'm seeing complaints that Disney is selling out by bringing a corporate brand to Main Street, USA. To those people I say:



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Old 06-23-2013, 01:09 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Q-man View Post
Having lived in a town of 1,500 the coffee shop was the center of socializing and discussing the events of the day. We had to drive 20 miles to a town large enough for a bakery and then we went to the coffee shop to have a cup of coffee with it.

Starbucks is light years ahead of Nescafe instant that has had the WDW coffee concession for ~40 years. I can't wait to have a decent cup of coffee in the World.

Corporate tie-ins? Coca-Cola, Edy's, Kodak, McDonald's(at one time), etc. Heck most of it is a tie-in to Disney movies and merchandise.

Walt would have made it an Irish coffee.
McDonalds is the big one I was thinking of as well... I'm surprised that comparison isn't mentioned more often.

The interesting thing about McDonalds though is that it shows that its not a one way street with Disney and out sourcing. When it no longer suits Disney they're happy to go it alone again like they did with McDonalds.
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Old 06-23-2013, 01:19 PM   #39
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Some folks just have a mysterious, unexplainable hate for Starbucks.

I talk to people who make a face when Starbucks is mentioned, they hate the place and everything it stands for, and in many cases they have never crossed the threshold of a Starbucks. These are the same people who continually talk about a cup of coffee there being "5 bucks, 6 bucks" and one one recent post on another thread somebody said Starbucks coffee is "8 bucks." I have never paid anywhere near those amounts for a S'bucks coffee.

Some of these people are the same ones who also have some inherent distaste for cell phones and the people that talk on them. "Look at that guy over there trying to impress everyone by talking on his cell phone", lolol.

And........Get that ball off my lawn.

Not sure what their general corporate reputation is like in America these days, but here in Britain they're generally seen as prime example of big bad corps for their shameless capitalism and pushing the legalities of our tax laws.

Avoiding to pay any corporation tax since 2009 despite sales of £400mil per year has done their reputation no favours at all.
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Old 06-23-2013, 01:22 PM   #40
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Not sure what their general corporate reputation is like in America these days, but here in Britain they're generally seen as prime example of big bad corps for their shameless capitalism and pushing the legalities of our tax laws.

Avoiding to pay any corporation tax since 2009 despite sales of £400mil per year has done their reputation no favours at all.
Here in the states, especially with people from where I'm currently living... that is celebrated rather than criticized...

And to tie this in with WDW in general... When WDW was being built and developed, Disney itself negotiated many one-sided things with the local government providing benefits without Disney needing to return any. New highway interchanges, special land use stuff, all that jazz. In fact, Disney is likely no better than Starbucks, Walmart, Exxon/Mobile, GE, BP, etc in this regard.
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Old 06-23-2013, 01:28 PM   #41
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I'm good with Starbucks. Now if Disney puts in a Wal-mart.......booooooo!
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Old 06-23-2013, 09:11 PM   #42
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Old 06-24-2013, 12:48 AM   #43
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I'm about 50/50 on the starbucks thing, the reason why I'm for it is because I love the coffee, I don't drink it often but it would be a great way to start the day at the park. What I dont like about it, and I could be wrong on this part, but I believe they replaced the bakery items with the typical Starbucks bakery items. I'm not a fan at all, we can get those items at the thousands of Starbucks around the world, why not mix the coffee with the old bakery items?
~This is a Starbucks, as you can see there are no Disney baked goods available before 11AM.


~Here is the leftover tray of Disney "treats" they throw on the bottom shelf. Eww.


~In all fairness, I don't frequent the bakery. I've only had one cupcake at Disney World in all my trips, it had white frosting and sprinkles. OMG, that cupcake was incredibly vile. I thought I was going to indulge in this decadent vanilla buttercream frosting but turns out it was "whipped cream." I have never tried another Disney cupcake again. I've never had a Disney "cinnamon roll" either so I don't know what I'm missing in that regard. I have had a Starbucks cinnamon roll, they're served cold and you have to request them to be warmed. I like the flavor and filling, the outer ring can be hard but the center is yummy.

~Starbucks has confirmed that this is a Starbucks store, and Disney chooses to promote this place as a "bakery" because they can. And, people will still call it a bakery -- like some people still refer to DHS as MGM. But, I really appreciate Starbucks message, they are very clear and concise about their company goals and what they're striving to achieve. I prefer their honest approach far better. Starbucks has so much respect for their consumer base, it's really hard to find fault with them.

~Anyway, guests who are looking for "bakery" goods should go to Fantasyland, and Disney says this on their website.

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Except, the point of the first article was that by "letting" Starbucks sponsor the bakery (and include Starbucks options) it was somehow going against the original intent of the parks by bringing in outside sponsorship. When, in truth, the outside sponsorship has existed since Disneyland opened and was one of the things Walt himself was very big on. Their question was "What would Walt do?" because they failed to research the history of the parks and instead decided to put out a misleading, ill-informed, incendiary, piece of trash article. (You can check out Yesterland.com as well as many other similar sites for numerous histories of sponsored attractions, shops, and restaurants.)

(In fact, there's a case to be made that DL would not have been built in the first place without it!)

The changes in shop style are separate. Would you (and others) be as up in arms if it simply went Main St. Bakery to Main St. Coffee House with similar, non-Starbucks changes? Perhaps, but I feel from reading many, many posts across these boards that most people have issues with Starbucks and not so much the change in venue-style (which, you even allude to with our location counts.)

Now, don't get me wrong, I sympathize with those who see their much-loved bakery shift over to more of a coffee-house location, but change happens and the result isn't always our favorite thing. The issue that I take...well...issue with, is harping on the name rather than the change and bringing it up as if it were a completely new thing while insinuating that Disney has some how "sold-out" and going far away from Walt's original vision*. That part, simply isn't true.

*(Note: "Far away from Walt's vision" in regards to bringing outside sponsors. I'll agree that there are several other cases where this may be applicable.)
~This is NOT my argument, at all. I would never argue about "sponsorship" in the parks. The bakery was replaced with a common coffee franchise. I don't see this as a "bakery" anymore. If you choose to, that's perfectly fine. It's just a difference in opinion.

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At least according to this article from two days ago:
It is quite clear from the layout of the new bakery that Disney are expecting it to be extremely busy, and based on this morning's opening they are right. The queue was at capacity on both sides, and the plentiful number of cast members were cranking out the drinks at a quick pace.
~The reviews I read described the place as empty in the afternoon. You could walk right up to the counter and order. That's not what I want to hear at all, I want this place packed in the morning while we head straight for the rides.

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Originally Posted by ThurlFan View Post
This is all well and good, but I don't see the majority of people saying they're disappointed that a bakery was replaced with a coffee shop (though certainly those folks can be found). Mostly I'm seeing complaints that Disney is selling out by bringing a corporate brand to Main Street, USA. To those people I say:



~Frankly, I haven't seen a single post about "sponsorship" in the parks, except from the posters who support the change and you are no exception.

~While I did not frequent the bakery, I was disappointed to see it succumb to a Starbucks. They could have put this place anywhere else and honestly the new Fantasyland would have been the perfect location for this venue or "anywhere" else. Like Tomorrowland with a Star Wars themed Starbucks, that could have been epic.

~I'm going to have to guess that the reason Disney didn't allow a Starbucks in Fantasyland is because the Starbucks drinks would upstage the LeFrou's Brew at Gaston's Tavern. It's the only logical reason I could think of, so the bakery was the consolation prize.
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Old 06-24-2013, 01:07 AM   #44
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~LOL. I like it and why should anyone be "outraged?" Anyway, it's a "cafe" so the menu and offerings are open to interpretation. The name works well for some reason -- Carnation Cafe has a nice ring to it -- maybe because "Carnation" is also the name of a flower, so the name can assume two different identities or meanings.

~Awww, there are even "carnations" that serve as centerpieces on the tables.
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Old 06-24-2013, 01:37 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by DRDISNEYMD View Post
~This is NOT my argument, at all. I would never argue about "sponsorship" in the parks. The bakery was replaced with a common coffee franchise. I don't see this as a "bakery" anymore. If you choose to, that's perfectly fine. It's just a difference in opinion.
There are 2 different disappointments with the Starbucks sponsorship.

1) "How can Disney invite this corporation in? That's so un-Disneylike!"
2) "My beloved [or maybe not quite beloved...but you get the gist] bakery is now primarily a coffee shop /sadface"

For #2 - I sympathize. For #1, those people are wrong. Simply, flat out, undeniably wrong. Apparently, I mistook your comments about the number of Starbucks locations as meaning you took issue with Starbucks itself, rather than it going to a coffee shop vs a bakery. If that's your stance, then I totally sympathize. I've had some of my favorite things changed to different formats too, and it always stinks.

(Personally, I haven't been there yet to decide on my own if it's a "bakery" or a "coffee house". I'll swing by in October though and report back! (Erm...well, I'll probably forget to report back...and since I don't drink coffee I'll probably skip the bakery/coffee house...so yeah. It sounded good when I first wrote it though!)

Quote:
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~Frankly, I haven't seen a single post about "sponsorship" in the parks, except from the posters who support the change and you are no exception.

~While I did not frequent the bakery, I was disappointed to see it succumb to a Starbucks. They could have put this place anywhere else and honestly the new Fantasyland would have been the perfect place this venue or "anywhere" else. Like Tomorrowland with a Star Wars themed Starbucks, that could have been epic.
The "Starbucks" issue though has been brought up, many times. Perhaps not directly in this thread, but in several threads elsewhere on the boards as well as in the first article linked in the OP. For some people (perhaps, not yourself, but others frequenting these boards) it IS the main thing rather than the type of venue. There has been a general, ignorant backlash against having Starbucks sponsor the venue since "Walt Disney World is a place of DREAMS not NAME BRANDS!!! KEEP DISNEY WORLD A DREAM NOT A SELLOUT!!!"

And perhaps, there's some disconnect with me here, since I'm not a coffee drinker. I don't associate coffee shop with Starbucks. So when people complain they put a Starbucks there, I assume they're keying off the brand rather than the type of venue (especially when they go and add in the number of Starbucks nation/world-wide into the argument .) Maybe it's more of a Kleenex vs. Facial Tissue type of thing for others that I just don't "get?"

(I still think the first article is very poorly written and hugely biased and slanted toward one side. A 10 minute Google search would have come up with better background than they presented. Plus, there's no guest viewpoint supporting or at least understanding the change, only the corporate spokespeople that they want to illustrate as "out of touch".)
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