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Old 05-29-2013, 11:45 AM   #76
Max Rebo
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Has any local or state government ever made an honest attempt to lure Disney to their area?

When it comes to economic development these days, state and local government are now creating huge incentive package to lure companies (usually large industrial projects.) As an example, the state of Arkansas recently approved a $125 million incentive package to lure a new steel mill to the state. (The company is also getting another $14.5 million from the local county, and another $2 million from a nearby city.)

While I have heard no evidence of this happening in relation to this recent rumor (of which I am highly skeptical), it's not hard for me to imagine a state like Texas looking to develop its local tourism industry, that would be willing to spend millions to lure a name-brand like Disney.

Several posters in this thread and elsewhere have made compelling arguments about why it wouldn't make business sense for Disney to expand its theme park empire in the United States. Generally, I have to say I agree with the arguments that have been made in those posts.

But I also wonder ... would it tip the scale any for the Disney company if they had a state or local government willing to kick upwards of $100 million into the project? And is there a state or local government eager enough to develop its tourism industry to be willing to make that kind of investment?
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:30 PM   #77
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Has any local or state government ever made an honest attempt to lure Disney to their area?
I don't know about local or state, but Dubai certainly made a heavy pitch back when they were building absolutely everything for everyone. Disney said no.

I don't think we will EVER see another "Florida Project/EPCOT/Walt Disney World" scale again. To do that, Disney got the Florida legislature to give them autonomy, setting up its own local government, etc. When there is nothing, it seems like a great deal at the time.

The current FL legislature doesn't seem to think it was a great deal now.

So I expect there is no way any state would allow Disney, or any other company, to get that sort of deal again.
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Old 05-29-2013, 05:22 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Max Rebo View Post
Several posters in this thread and elsewhere have made compelling arguments about why it wouldn't make business sense for Disney to expand its theme park empire in the United States. Generally, I have to say I agree with the arguments that have been made in those posts.
And I'd argue that they open a new US theme park about every 10 years to absorb the increasing population and the ever increasing demand they have created.

'55 Disneyland
'71 Magic Kingdom
'82 Epcot
'89 Hollywood Studios
'98 Animal Kingdom
'01 California Adventure

I grew up in Texas and have heard these rumors since the late 1970s. It was going to be in Austin on Lake Travis, then San Antonio which ended up being Sea World and Six Flags, etc, etc. I get the disbelief after so many years of rumors. But, all the Disney doesn't do business that way naysayers remind me of an Einstein quote that I'll paraphrase, "The thinking that got us here isn't the thinking that's going to get us beyond here."

I still contend a 3rd U.S. Magic Kingdom/Disneyland isn't that far fetched. I completely agree that you never replicate WDW to maintain that special draw to it. Disneyland Toyko(1983), Disneyland Paris(1992), Tokyo DisneySea(2001) and Disneyland Hong Kong(2005) don't seem to have stopped either Asian or European travel to WDW. Disneyland is out of room to expand and I'm pretty sure MK crowds is the number #1 complaint of WDW visitors. 17.1mil passed through the MK gates in 2011 vs 10.8mil at Epcot. Disneyland had 16.1mil visitors in 2011 to 6.3million for California Adventure.

As for cost, land and labor is still comparatively cheap around Houston. If they could afford to build in Tokyo, Paris, and Hong Kong then the cost of building in the Houston area is of little concern.

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Old 05-29-2013, 05:36 PM   #79
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And I'd argue that they open a new US theme park about every 10 years to absorb the increasing population and the ever increasing demand they have created.

'55 Disneyland
'71 Magic Kingdom
'82 Epcot
'89 Hollywood Studios
'98 Animal Kingdom
'01 California Adventure
Four of those six were on property already owned by the company, and not in a new location.

If increasing population/demand is the concern, then could still easily open a new park at WDW, possibly more, and there has been buzz about a third in CA.

Seems more likely they'd go that route than have to start from scratch somewhere else.
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Old 05-29-2013, 06:30 PM   #80
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Four of those six were on property already owned by the company, and not in a new location.

If increasing population/demand is the concern, then could still easily open a new park at WDW, possibly more, and there has been buzz about a third in CA.

Seems more likely they'd go that route than have to start from scratch somewhere else.
And I'd argue that only 1 was and they bought the property to build the other 4 up front due to the overwhelming success of Disneyland. At the very least they knew they were going to build Epcot in addition to MK and obviously had visions of more with how much land they bought. But, the property is likely the least of the expense. If they bought the alleged Waller tract in the last down turn it would have been $5-6K an acre. That $38 million on the top end. Implementing MyMagic+ is costing anywhere from $1.5 to 2 BILLION. That is 40 to 50 Waller tracts.

Two MKs at WDW and in Cali? MK's/DL demand is the issue. MK drew ~65% more guest visits than the much bigger Epcot in 2011 and MK was just shy of 90% more guest visits than either of HS and AK. DL drew 165% more guest visits than California Adventure did in 2011.

They'd have to start from scratch for 3rd park in Cali too as they are out of land at DL. I can assure you that doing so in Texas would be much cheaper than in Cali. But you could use my if they could afford to buy and build in Tokyo, Paris, and Hong Kong, or implement MyMagic+, then they can afford build again in Cali too. But that option seems way more competing with yourself than building in the exploding mega regional triangle of Houston, DFW, Austin/SA. that would put well over 20 million w/i a 6-7 hour drive. That is over 50% more people than the entire state of California had when DL opened in 1955.

Last edited by Q-man; 05-31-2013 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 05-29-2013, 07:06 PM   #81
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And I'm no expert at golf courses or how big they are, but I know the courses at WDW are very nice, maybe it would be a Disney golf course - similar to PGA style?
well in dallas they are bulding a pga tour for 2019
IRVING, Texas -- The HP Byron Nelson Championship has entered into an agreement with the PGA Tour and the Trinity Forest project that would move the event from Irving, its home the past 30 years, to Trinity Forest Golf Course starting in 2019, assuming everything goes forward as scheduled with the project.

Dallas is also building a Strip like Vegas soon aswell

im not sure about a Disney land but knowing the
Iger family its possible they will build in america in Texas you never know. and plus all the stuff thats coming to dallas you never no if it will come to either
DFW , San antonio or Houston .
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:46 PM   #82
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I wonder about this Texas plan because I feel that it would take profits away from both DL and WDW. I'm always up for a new Disney park. We'll have to wait and see.
i say since we have disney land and disney world i feel that if they build one more its best they call it Disney City and its so much land in texas i say why not name it that anything else over that wouldn't make much since
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Old 06-01-2013, 08:32 PM   #83
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Had a conversation with a friend in the development business about these rumors. I ask him if true why Waller and not the south side to be 50 miles farther south for fewer cold days?

His thoughts were-
- farther inland for hurricane protection
- in the Piney Woods which would save many many millions in construction cost from sandy soils and existing trees over the the ever expanding and contracting heavy clay soils of the Coastal Plains to the south of Houston.
- Only those in Houston and the much smaller populations coming from east and south of Houston would have to actually drive through Houston.
- Houston's wealthier suburbs are mostly on the west and north sides.
- Far enough out of town that Houston exurbia won't reach that area for 20 plus years

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Old 06-01-2013, 10:04 PM   #84
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As for cost, land and labor is still comparatively cheap around Houston. If they could afford to build in Tokyo, Paris, and Hong Kong then the cost of building in the Houston area is of little concern.
Cost of building in Hong Kong would have been extremely cheap. Very low labour costs and the HK government provided the land at no initial cost, owned 57% of the shares in the company running the resort, and injected $3.25 billion initial equity compared with Disney who initially put in $2.45 billion.

The other two resorts were cheaper to build, but longer ago.
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:50 PM   #85
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Dallas is also building a Strip like Vegas soon aswell
This caught my eye! What do you mean like Vegas- are we talking hotels, or casinos, or nightclubs?
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:04 PM   #86
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Now, in the past, I remember reading rumors about mini parks placed throughout the US. They would be too small to compete with the two major resorts, but attract people looking for something a little more local. If there was any truth in these rumors, it's possible they are looking for locations now.
Speaking of this I know for a fact disney has land in Tennessee close to the smokie mountains. About 30 mins away from where I-75 and I-40 cross.
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:12 AM   #87
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Speaking of this I know for a fact disney has land in Tennessee close to the smokie mountains. About 30 mins away from where I-75 and I-40 cross.
That I heard was for another off site DVC at one time like hilton head but who know if they will ever do tat because it's not a no snow destination.
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Old 06-02-2013, 07:14 PM   #88
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Unless it is a large project or at least what DL has to offer, I am having a hard time believing Disney would build an amusement type park attraction. I think if they did, they would need to combine a Magic Kingdom type park and add many of the thrill type rides from the other parks in order to compete with the many other thrill parks around such as Six Flags, Worlds of Fun, etc. It would need to be a DESTINATION site, where people from all over the country would wish to go, and not just something for the geographical area. This is contrary to what Disney has and continues to do. They prefer to provide the "Experience" with a mix or attractions for a variety of ages. I would think that style of park would have a hard time competing for the vacation or a day-outing dollar with other amusement parks.

Maybe a "Best of" park with Expedition Everest, RocknRoller coaster, tower of terror, splash mountain, space mountain, soarin', test track and so on?
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:32 AM   #89
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.... and injected $3.25 billion initial equity compared with Disney who initially put in $2.45 billion.

The other two resorts were cheaper to build, but longer ago.
That is to my point that the land is the least of the cost. If Disney did buy the rumored Waller tract it would have likely been under $40 mil. The 10 acre expansion of Fantasyland cost $425 mil. Building Aulani was $800 Million. The new cruise ship, Fantasy, cost $900 million.

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Old 06-03-2013, 08:39 AM   #90
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Unless it is a large project or at least what DL has to offer, I am having a hard time believing Disney would build an amusement type park attraction. I think if they did, they would need to combine a Magic Kingdom type park and add many of the thrill type rides from the other parks in order to compete with the many other thrill parks around such as Six Flags, Worlds of Fun, etc. It would need to be a DESTINATION site, where people from all over the country would wish to go, and not just something for the geographical area. This is contrary to what Disney has and continues to do. They prefer to provide the "Experience" with a mix or attractions for a variety of ages. I would think that style of park would have a hard time competing for the vacation or a day-outing dollar with other amusement parks.

Maybe a "Best of" park with Expedition Everest, RocknRoller coaster, tower of terror, splash mountain, space mountain, soarin', test track and so on?
Disneyland has done just fine completing with Magic Mountain, Knotts Berry Farms, and Sea World for decades for the very reason you mention; it is a theme park and they are amusement parks. But your suggestion is kind of what the Disney California Adventure Park addition to DL is. DL outdraws Disney California Adventure for guest visits by 165%.

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