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Old 05-25-2013, 10:47 PM   #976
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Originally Posted by PrincessArlena'sDad View Post
They don't expect this to improve the guest experience, and decided the data and resource management is worth any decrease in guest satisfaction. The bet is the Disney name can absorb the hit, and they won't lose a significant customer base.
This my theory also. This has nothing to do with improving anyone's experience. The effect may that some will have improving experiences, some will have worst experiences and some will never know the difference. None of these things are Disney's goals. It will just be what happens. I believe this mainly for the little bit of info Disney has released and the fact they have not tried to relieve the fears that MANY have expressed online. This could be done without painting themselves into a corner. Because as someone liked to point out, Disney can change the rules when they see fit. But they haven't and there has be no new news. There has to be some reason for that.
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Old 05-25-2013, 10:55 PM   #977
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Originally Posted by MichiganDVC View Post
Does anyone really think Disney is nervous about Universal?! A. They (Univ) can't really expand much more. B. Disney is an empire: toys, Mickey, movies, and the parks. Universal is a hodgepodge of unrelated movie rides and shows. I mean, if you asked for word association and you said the words "Disney World," what first things would come to mind? Mickey, castle, monorail, princess...
Now say "Universal Orlando:" Harry Potter.
That's it. I am not saying that people who go to Universal don't have anything else to go ther efore. I'm sure Universal fans could name 20 rides they love. I'm just saying as a brand, for someone who's thinking of traveling to the Orlando area and wants to go to the parks when they think Universal, what stands out? All they think of is Harry Potter. There's so much more in terms of brand the Disney offers it keeps people coming to their parks.

And either 2011, the Magic Kingdom alone had 17 million visitors. Universal Orlando and Islands of Adventure combined had 13 million visitors.

WDW total had 37 million visitors.

I really don't think that Universal and fear of Universal is driving anything the Disney does or is going to do.
Universal is building on Harry Potter and plans on building on more. There is Transformers and Despicable Me for example. It's true that they only have a little land left (there are a few parcels still available) but Disneyland seems to be doing quite well in spite of that same problem.

Also, it's true that Universal is a bit of a hodgepodge but so are the Disney parks. I think that Animal Kingdom is actually the park closest to a consistent theme.

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Regarding Universal vs Disney

And please note that I love both entities. I am not bogged down by the opinion that one can love one but not the other. I find this silly.

Universal:
For a long time, they tried to fill the 'thrill ride' crowd niche. This worked somewhat for them I belive. I have a family that includes 3 teenagers, and while they can appreciate Disney (Yes Michican DVC, I taught them well), right now Universal is their park of choice. But its only been their park of choice in the last 3 years, partly due to HP, partly due to thier age.

But I will say, if there was ANY franchise to hop on board, considering Star Wars, HP, Avatar whatever, I think HP is the big ticket. And Universal beat out Disney on this.

Universal is working with short term goals. They have a very marketable franchise that has everything a bean counter could want. (Ok, i have an active imagination, but I picture a bunch of 30 to 40 year old men in white button down shirts and ties dancing and screaming when Universal won Harry Potter. This franchise is SO marketable.)

Anyways, Universal has carved out thier own niche, but I have to say, they are becoming very wise. HP major attraction that is in IOA right now, is something almost everyone, from small kids 6&7 year olds, to people in their fifties, to grandparents can enjoy. The standby line, if you are into HP, is blow your mind. I could happily wait 45 minutes in the que, and be entertained by the detail. Detail that Disney use to be famous for. And the whole land is really about family. Hmmm. They served Disney notice with this, in my opinion.

Ioa Park attendance 2011 7.7 million, up 29% (ok, all of disney's 4 parks beat this number, but up 29%? thats amazing)
I dont think stats are out for 2012, but I it will be interesting to see.

Once Universal Florida has gringots, I wonder how far up the grid Uni will compare to Disney. And they are becoming a 'destination' that will take more then one night. Look out D

The fact is, they are catching up, a big part of the market share in Orlando.

Universal is for sure working with the 5 to 10 year mindframe. Disney is working with long term plans I would say 10 to 20. Who knows who is right, its a gamble.

But I will say that the HP brand is so simple to market. And as much as I love AVATAR, and I do, this will be very hard to market. Disney Imagineers, and James Cameron, and the bean counters have their work cut out for them. There is no 'kids' market niche that is easily foreseeable (there could be, but based on the first movie, what could they market to 5- 10 year olds. Compare that to HP I know what I would have chosen as a bean counter)

Also, and weirdly, I think you have to consider clothing, and Disney. I watched AVATAR the other day, and before I said in a thread, those aliens were 90% naked. After watching AVATAR again, I want to revise that statistic, and say, those aliens are 99 % naked, and I just dont know how Disney can play this easily. Unless they are all 'dressed' as the military or dream beings, its going to be hard to do.

I hope Disney has something that we dont know up their sleeve. I hope that they are 'refurbishing' both the mk parades and the HS parade, and the AK parade to be interactive with the magic band. I hope muppets and JC are going down to get some RFID technology that will add to the guests experience while participating in these attractions.

I have some hope that the imagineers have worked with the bean counters, and are planning to make so many of us happy, not just Disney bean counters.

That is my hope.
Unlike another poster I believe that Harry Potter will have staying power. Besides what kid doesn't like a castle and all involved with it?

Disney could counter with Star Wars. That is another franchise that I believe will have staying power. I'm not so sure about Avatar.

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Originally Posted by mom2mickeyfan View Post
Wasn't yesterday's kids, today's teens and tomorrow's parents?? Would it not be wise for Disney to find a way to keep these teens in love with Disney?? So that when they become parents in 10 to 15 years that can't wait to bring their children?? Is it really wise to write them off?? They will be the next set of parents and will be taking their children on vacation. What happens if they get a bad taste in their mouth by Disney's new system (but maybe they will love it) or finds so much more to love at Universal? We can all admit that Universal has more to draw in the teens. Isn't something us parents love to do is to share the things we loved with our children. Keeping teens wanting to come to Disney could benefit them for many years to come. Hook them young and KEEP them wanting to come back. Maybe just SOME of this money could have been spent to build something to make them beg their parents to take them to Disney. Why does Disney not seem to want the love of the teens? If anyone could build a thrill ride to beat some of Universal's thrill rides, it would be Disney. They would just need to commit to it!

BTW..I'm not a thrill ride person. Some at Disney are even too much for me! But I'm sure in a few more years I'm sure, if there isn't anything new, that my DS will want to go for some bigger thrills. I would rather just do Disney but will be heading to Universal when that time comes. I can see nothing in the little we know so far about the new system that would change that.

There just has to be something more. But why won't Disney let us know anything? These concerns we bring up aren't only being talked about here!
My teen talked me into going to Universal. He loved WDW but he kept asking why we never tried Universal. Why indeed. I finally relented and that was before the Harry Potter express. I was smitten myself and now I have the problem of having to visit two resorts.
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Old 05-25-2013, 11:00 PM   #978
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Originally Posted by bcrook View Post

That is my problem with it all. I am trying to find the silver lining in the fastpass+ cloud, but I am not seeing it. And I have spent a lot of time looking for it.
exactly how I feel about it too
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Old 05-25-2013, 11:01 PM   #979
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Originally Posted by Planogirl View Post

Unlike another poster I believe that Harry Potter will have staying power. Besides what kid doesn't like a castle and all involved with it?

Disney could counter with Star Wars. That is another franchise that I believe will have staying power. I'm not so sure about Avatar.


My teen talked me into going to Universal. He loved WDW but he kept asking why we never tried Universal. Why indeed. I finally relented and that was before the Harry Potter express. I was smitten myself and now I have the problem of having to visit two resorts.
I think Star Wars could have even more staying power than Harry Potter.
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Old 05-25-2013, 11:04 PM   #980
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Originally Posted by mom2mickeyfan View Post
I think Star Wars could have even more staying power than Harry Potter.
Possibly. I think that both will be around for the long term though. Avatar?
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Old 05-25-2013, 11:06 PM   #981
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This is from the Orlando Sentinel: It discusses the opening of Antarctica at Seaworld yesterday. It is relevant to this discussion. The article tackles some of the same themes. Disney's shrinking share of the Orlando market.

Article
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Old 05-25-2013, 11:10 PM   #982
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Originally Posted by mom2mickeyfan View Post
I think Star Wars could have even more staying power than Harry Potter.
And besides, isn't true staying power based how good a ride is?? It doesn't matter what a ride it based on if it isn't a good ride. Word of mouth gets around. A great thrill ride or 2 wouldn't need to be based on a great movie franchise to draw in the teens. Word of mouth (text, facebook) would give it the draw that I think any theme park would want!
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Old 05-25-2013, 11:16 PM   #983
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Originally Posted by mom2mickeyfan View Post
I think Star Wars could have even more staying power than Harry Potter.
Considering Star Wars is already 36 years old (from when Episode IV was originally released), and how popular it is with young kids even now, I think that franchise has already proven it has staying power.
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Old 05-25-2013, 11:21 PM   #984
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Originally Posted by Angel Ariel View Post

Considering Star Wars is already 36 years old (from when Episode IV was originally released), and how popular it is with young kids even now, I think that franchise has already proven it has staying power.
Yes. And with multiple movies back in the pipeline, it will likely only increase in "staying power". HP will likely have it too, though it will always be a younger sibling.
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Old 05-25-2013, 11:23 PM   #985
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Originally Posted by bcrook View Post
This is from the Orlando Sentinel: It discusses the opening of Antarctica at Seaworld yesterday. It is relevant to this discussion. The article tackles some of the same themes. Disney's shrinking share of the Orlando market.

Article
I'm personally not excited about Antarctica. It wouldn't motivate me to add a Seaworld day to our trip. My 4 year old may have different thoughts though.

I still find Disney's stubborn refusal to aggressively add attractions puzzling...and the choice of Avatar even more puzzling.
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Old 05-25-2013, 11:27 PM   #986
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Originally Posted by Doug7856 View Post
I'm personally not excited about Antarctica. It wouldn't motivate me to add a Seaworld day to our trip. My 4 year old may have different thoughts though.

I still find Disney's stubborn refusal to aggressively add attractions puzzling...and the choice of Avatar even more puzzling.
I will check Antarctica out in a few weeks. But, I don't expect it to be a game changer. But, the fact that SeaWorld is working hard at taking some of the pie is what I found interesting. I will also try Busch Gardens for the first time since the mid 80's. The 14 day pass is too good to pass up. I haven't been to SeaWorld Orlando since 1977. I think it has changed some.
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Old 05-26-2013, 12:33 AM   #987
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***Disclaimer***
I have been reading all of the FP+ posts since the news first hit. I rarely comment but I constantly lurk here on the DIS. I have no inside information. Everything that I am posting below is completely speculative.
****
I have a few thoughts that I want to add to this discussion:

1. No where has it been said that you can only get 3 FP+ per day. It's been stated that you can only PRE-BOOK 3, but nobody has said that you absolutely cannot get any more day of.
What I mean is this: What IF... You could pre-book your 3 (60 days out), and then "pick up" more on that day while you are at the park? With this theory, you would be able to use the MDE app on your device or a kiosk and grab 1 FP. This 1 FP would play by the same rules as the current system where you have an enforced return time and you cannot grab another FP until your window opens again. Theoretically, you could actually be holding 4 FP at a time. (3 pre-booked plus 1 day of)
Again, this is just speculation and perhaps wishful thinking...

2. Some were talking about Disney making a FP "coveted". Yes, this is definitely what I think Disney wants to do. I could then imagine them making it a package deal add on. Imagine them now selling something like "MYW plus Dining plus Thrills" for resort guests where you would get your base ticket, a dining plan, and then your "thrills" package which would include additional E-ticket FP+?!?!!

I know that I had a lot more thoughts while reading through all of these posts, but I just wanted to throw the first two out there for discussion... Perhaps I'll add some more of my thoughts later.
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Old 05-26-2013, 12:49 AM   #988
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Now that I posted a pessimist view above, here is an optimistic view.

Why guest experience (for us planners) will be improved:

No matter how this is implemented, there are two constants, ride capacity and attendance (for a given day). I still don't think this will make a significant impact on attendance.

Therefore, for a given ride, demand for fastpass won't change. Except for Toy Story, soaring, and test track, fastpasses last well into the evening on most days. So with the limit of one per attraction, allowing pre trip selection won't increase overall demand. There will be less available same day, but less demand for same day. They should last just as long into the evening.

What about B rides? Same principle applies. Demand for small world won't change. For every person who takes a small world fastpass, that's one less person in the stand by line. When you get into stand by, instead of 100 people in line in front of you, there will only be 30. The other 70 have fastpass. So while the line will move a lot slower, total wait will be the same as demand is the constant. Is stand by for the mountains a longer wait now than before fastpass even though the line moves slower now?

Now here is where us vets will see an advantage with fastpass +. While, now, all fastpasses have value to most, everyone is in competition for the same ones. But, with fastpass +, we will know which ones have little value. With those who don't know better using their limited number of fastpasses (there always was and always be some limit) on lights motor action, that will actually decrease competition for valued fastpasses. Valued fastpasses might actually last longer.

There is one thing that could mess this up. Is the block of people who don't use fastpasses because they think it costs extra or is for VIPs significant? And, if so, will enough of them use fastpass + to mess up everything I just wrote, which depended on constant demand for fastpasses?

I hope this at least gives the silver lining some here said they were looking for.
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Old 05-26-2013, 05:38 AM   #989
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That article on SeaWorld and its expansion was interesting. I was intrigued by the mention of things like butterbeer.

We all know on these boards people are mentioning the declining quality of park goods (I haven't been in four years, so I can't say anything on the matter.) If this is true, doesn't it seem like something Disney ought to tackle especially considering the marketable goods at Harry Potter at Universal?

If a kid comes home to his school saying "wow look what I got at universal!" and shows something like a harry potter wand, other kids are A) Going to want to go to Universal and B) Going to want to spend their money there.

What do people think?

And with regards to the posts above, that's my thinking. Best case, you can get same day fastpasses and doesn't affect standby times, worst case, sold out FP's and longer lines.

However, given that they are adding fastpass to these odd places that didn't have it before like LMA or counter service, I can't help but feel that somewhere the lines will end up being longer than they are now. They can't keep the standby line the same wait time everywhere, surely? That would take some hard managing from Disney.
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:48 AM   #990
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