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Old 05-24-2013, 11:30 PM   #766
doggydoc
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Originally Posted by Robo View Post
Something just doesn't feel right.
I agree ROBO it just doesn't make sense. Why the secrecy? What kind of glitches could cause such a delay after a significant portion of the system has already been successfully tested? And what amount of hubris does a company have to have to think, if rileygirl is correct, that they can direct and control so many people on ANY level much less to the degree required to have any real effect on wait times.

When I started community college, oh so many years ago, I had a very enlightening discussion with the Dean. The college was fairly new and he was the first Dean. He stated that one of his regrets was not being able to convince the planners to wait to put in sidewalks around the campus until well after completion. His reasoning was that you can't plan sidewalks and expect to be able to anticipate the students walking habits. He challenged me to look carefully next time I crossed campus. Sure enough there were paths worn through numerous landscaping areas, I actually found myself using them. The point is, it is far too difficult to anticipate or direct peoples actions. The best plan is to study their actions and place the "sidewalks" where they like to "walk". I really wish he had worked for Disney because from what I see they seem very intent on telling me where to "walk".
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:41 PM   #767
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Originally Posted by Rileygirl View Post
Angel Ariel, your point is valid. It may be that you have no interest in prebooking, and no interest in the mobile app, and no interest in using your device on vacation. And thats ok. Thats not wrong or bad. But I think when disney does its targeting and forcasting, they may think you are in the minority, and the rest are in the majority. Maybe.
Oh I probably would pre-book, specifically because my interest is in rides and because I'm a member here, I'll know about it and all that jazz. I was mostly responding to the (seeming) assertion that "all" Disney has to do is get someone to use the website or the app and they'll just automatically use FP+, almost like it would be really simple to get people (who don't currently need to) to use those things, and therefore even learn about FP+.

Making it a complete hypothetical...Guest A doesn't frequent any online Disney news/forums. They're staying off-site, and therefore purchasing tickets separately (not part of a package). Guest A wouldn't be using Disney's online check-in process, and won't be using Disney's Dining Plan (and possibly less likely to be using Disney's ADR system at all). So they have no real need to use Disney's website before their arrival.

How would someone like this learn about the 60 day pre-booking option? "All" they'd have to do is a little bit of research - but we already see that so many don't do that now. IMO, there's little that Disney is going to do to change people's innate habits/preferences.

I'm a planner by nature, so I personally probably would pre-book FP if I could - but I do also like to be spontaneous on vacation and leave the OCD tendencies aside when I can. I'm not sure I'm a fan of Disney pushing me back towards them.

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I also think though, that the competitive spirit that is in most of us, maybe woken by the challenge of scoring a great fp. Maybe Disney thinks that will over ride some peoples hesitation on prebooking. In fact, I kinda think that is how Disney hopes to make those off site people pre purchase their tickets in advance.
Do people really care about scoring a great FP? I mean..I want to ride the ride, but that's all...I don't really care if I got a FP for something that someone else didn't. The "challenge" for me at Disney is to have a great time with as short of waits as possible...if FP+ ends up increasing SB wait times while simultaneously limiting my access to FP, it's not going to end up in a happy guest.
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Old 05-25-2013, 12:17 AM   #768
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Originally Posted by doggydoc View Post
The point is, it is far too difficult to anticipate or direct peoples actions. The best plan is to study their actions and place the "sidewalks" where they like to "walk". I really wish he had worked for Disney because
from what I see they seem very intent on telling me where to "walk".
Yup.


.

Last edited by Robo; 05-25-2013 at 12:37 AM.
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Old 05-25-2013, 01:03 AM   #769
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Originally Posted by Robo View Post
Yup.


.
LOL I was going to reply to your answer and you changed it

but I agree, and if by chance that is Disney's plan to get first timers to the park, wouldn't this backfire on them by having that first timer have no interest in coming back? not to mention the loss of future first timers due to word of mouth from the unhappy former first timers?
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Old 05-25-2013, 06:32 AM   #770
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Originally Posted by doggydoc View Post
I agree ROBO it just doesn't make sense. Why the secrecy? What kind of glitches could cause such a delay after a significant portion of the system has already been successfully tested? And what amount of hubris does a company have to have to think, if rileygirl is correct, that they can direct and control so many people on ANY level much less to the degree required to have any real effect on wait times.

When I started community college, oh so many years ago, I had a very enlightening discussion with the Dean. The college was fairly new and he was the first Dean. He stated that one of his regrets was not being able to convince the planners to wait to put in sidewalks around the campus until well after completion. His reasoning was that you can't plan sidewalks and expect to be able to anticipate the students walking habits. He challenged me to look carefully next time I crossed campus. Sure enough there were paths worn through numerous landscaping areas, I actually found myself using them. The point is, it is far too difficult to anticipate or direct peoples actions. The best plan is to study their actions and place the "sidewalks" where they like to "walk". I really wish he had worked for Disney because from what I see they seem very intent on telling me where to "walk".
I've been browsing through this thread since it began, taking it all in, filtering the hypotheses. THIS is one of my favorite posts, and it makes so much sense! I mean, we don't really know what the final FP+ model will look like, but based on testing and speculation it seems as though they will most definitely be telling us where to walk.
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Old 05-25-2013, 07:48 AM   #771
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No offense to bcrook, he's done a great deal to further this discussion and pass out actual information, but his numbers are very speculative.

Unless I am a complete outlier there is going to HAVE to be more than 3 FP's per day to make me happy. If I am not an outlier, then a member of a minority I may be, but it is a VERY vocal minority that has been Disney cheerleaders for years. If the internet has taught us anything it is that a vocal minority can absolutely make a significant impact on a business.
. No offense taken! I understand, and I hope others do too that the math is based on best guesses and assumptions.

But to be fair to others, the numbers for the capacities of rides is an accumulation of many disboard contributors. Every ride was researched and a published capacity number was found. People pulled out articles and news releases and web sites to base each number.

I even asked people in the park during that "investigation" to count how many people were loaded on rides in a minute and extrapolated from there! .

It was fun. The biggest guesswork comes in estimating the ratio of fastpass to standby. That changes all the time I guess.

I obviously enjoy the conversation, and have had a lot of fun running through all the scenarios. To me this is a great thinking exercise.

To steal from Rileygirl, more to come. I want to address the Return of MichiganDVC.
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Old 05-25-2013, 07:56 AM   #772
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Originally Posted by eeyoresnr View Post
LOL I was going to reply to your answer and you changed it

but I agree, and if by chance that is Disney's plan to get first timers to the park, wouldn't this backfire on them by having that first timer have no interest in coming back? not to mention the loss of future first timers due to word of mouth from the unhappy former first timers?
Yes, that is exactly the problem if a main pillar of the Disney Billion Dollar Scheme is to "fool" guests into believing that having a locked-in FP to the the Tiki Room at 12:35-1:35PM on Monday is major improvement in Orlando guest experience.

Especially when a principal Disney goal of the past 50+ years has been:
"UNDER-Promise, OVER-Deliver."
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Old 05-25-2013, 08:12 AM   #773
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Originally Posted by MichiganDVC View Post
I can't articulate how much I disagree. What "first-time" guest has a clue about FP+? Actually, they probably know more than we do because while we're here speculating about 1,000 scenarios that COULD happen but probably never will, they are happily going about their lives...
I am used to the jokes and laughing when I say things like this upcoming information. But, it is true.

I am a science teacher and currently a librarian at a middle school. And I spend all day working with kids and classrooms trying to get people to ask questions, find answers, be involved in thoughtful conversation, ask what if, solve problems, identify weaknesses in systems, propose solutions, collect data in any way at your disposal, look at situations from multiple perspectives, find relevant articles about your topics, cite sources, keep a bibliography. To me that is engaging work.

This fastpass+ topic has been a good challenge for me and hundreds (thousands of others?). The first FP+ threads reached about 8000 posts in less than a month.

It has also been an amazing collaboration of ideas. I would really be stunned if Disney hasn't been following conversation (they would be foolish to pass on the feedback - it has been a free focus group).

MichiganDVC, I like your touring style. I have one of your previous posts permanently bookmarked. I understand what you are saying.

But my teenage kids really enjoy riding BTMRR 7 times and still riding jc, HM, and POTC. Everyone tours differently. The nine teenagers I brought to Disney last summer would not have appreciated being told "where to walk" (thanks doggydoc).
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Last edited by bcrook; 05-25-2013 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 05-25-2013, 08:29 AM   #774
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Originally Posted by Angel Ariel View Post
Oh I probably would pre-book, specifically because my interest is in rides and because I'm a member here, I'll know about it and all that jazz. I was mostly responding to the (seeming) assertion that "all" Disney has to do is get someone to use the website or the app and they'll just automatically use FP+, almost like it would be really simple to get people (who don't currently need to) to use those things, and therefore even learn about FP+.

Making it a complete hypothetical...Guest A doesn't frequent any online Disney news/forums. They're staying off-site, and therefore purchasing tickets separately (not part of a package). Guest A wouldn't be using Disney's online check-in process, and won't be using Disney's Dining Plan (and possibly less likely to be using Disney's ADR system at all). So they have no real need to use Disney's website before their arrival.

How would someone like this learn about the 60 day pre-booking option? "All" they'd have to do is a little bit of research - but we already see that so many don't do that now. IMO, there's little that Disney is going to do to change people's innate habits/preferences.

I'm a planner by nature, so I personally probably would pre-book FP if I could - but I do also like to be spontaneous on vacation and leave the OCD tendencies aside when I can. I'm not sure I'm a fan of Disney pushing me back towards them.



Do people really care about scoring a great FP? I mean..I want to ride the ride, but that's all...I don't really care if I got a FP for something that someone else didn't. The "challenge" for me at Disney is to have a great time with as short of waits as possible...if FP+ ends up increasing SB wait times while simultaneously limiting my access to FP, it's not going to end up in a happy guest.
I think your question is a good one. But if ADRs are any indication to this at all, I do believe there will be quite a bit of hype in getting fastpass+ for certain attractions and especially at certain times.

There are certain attractions that I simply cannot wait in standby line for: Peter Pan (maybe it will be better in a couple of years with an interactive queue - but it has to better than Pooh's queue), enchanted tales with belle, and space mountain. I can gut out BTMRR and sometimes Splash (I do that during parades or at closing). So if I log in 30 days out, get the times I want (evening? So I can hit DHS early and hop over to a late stay at MK), and I will feel like it is a score. Just like the thrill others get (not I) on getting the coveted 'Ohana reservation, or getting Crystal palace for breakfast before the park opens, or Cali grill at wishes time.

I am definitely not saying I like it, but if the rules change - it will be the only way to play. As much as I hate the idea, I know I will be purchasing my freaking tickets, linking them to my MDE (if it ever works), and pre booking rides at 60 days, I hope I never post "leaving in 60 days...I just got TSMM at 2:00 pm, Jedi academy for my nephew at 4:00 and snatched a Fantasmic seat." But, I might.
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Last edited by bcrook; 05-25-2013 at 09:06 AM.
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Old 05-25-2013, 08:36 AM   #775
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prebooking for CS? did I miss this somewhere? please tell me that was a joke...
Not a joke. They've tested it at Be Our Guest lunch a few times. How it will fit into the rest of the system is unknown.

Quote:
also, do we have to purchase the wristbands? if so, how much? are they good for more than one trip?
Resort guests and Annual Passholders are reported to get them for free. Others will supposedly be able to get them for a charge.

The battery for the transmitter will reportedly last 2-3 years. The transmitter is not required for most functions, however, so in theory they will last quite a while. No testing ability or replacement policy has been named.
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Old 05-25-2013, 08:43 AM   #776
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Originally Posted by Robo View Post
Yes, that is exactly the problem if a main pillar of the Disney Billion Dollar Scheme is to "fool" guests into believing that having a locked-in FP to the the Tiki Room at 12:35-1:35PM on Monday is major improvement in Orlando guest experience.

Especially when a principal Disney goal of the past 50+ years has been:
"UNDER-Promise, OVER-Deliver."
It has been said a hundred times or more, but what still steams me is the idea of Disney declining to engage in a theme park Arms race with Universal. I think everyone was expecting Disney to Roar back after Harry Potter, and get back into the innovation game. Crank up the Imagineering team. Spend 1.5 billion on new rides, new lands, and update in the parks.

But instead we get magicbands. We get to push a button on BTMRR to blow up something, we get our name to show up on its a small world, a talking sea gull, and the opportunity to spend more time buying things in stores with our bracelets.

We get cardboard cutouts in enchanted tales and a little mermaid ride with ancient technology and no water.

All the while an even better Harry Potter addition is being added across town, and Antarctica opened yesterday.

That is my problem with it all. I am trying to find the silver lining in the fastpass+ cloud, but I am not seeing it. And I have spent a lot of time looking for it.
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Old 05-25-2013, 08:46 AM   #777
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I But my teenage kids really enjoy riding BTMRR 7 times and still riding jc, HM, and POTC. Everyone tours differently. The nine teenagers I brought to Disney last summer would not have appreciated being told "where to walk" (thanks doggydoc).
I will go so far as to say I think this new system could cost them the few teenage patrons they get in the parks now. (And if the teens don't want to visit Disney, will the entire family continue to choose Disney as their exclusive vacation destination?) It could be the end of it for us, as my youngest is 12 and her fondest memory of our last trip was riding Tower of Terror 5 times in a row with the help of fastpass.

Yes, a few of them will be amused by the incorporation of their smart phones into the process. But that will be over the minute their headline ride is over and they are faced with standby as their only option to repeat it.
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Old 05-25-2013, 08:47 AM   #778
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Originally Posted by Robo View Post
Something just doesn't feel right.
Hmm Big Brother is now controlling even Disney.
As tempting as the offer sounds, and as cool as they look, I am still on the "no" side of purchasing this. Part of the fun is figuring out your touring plan, to me anyway. I mean why pay for something that with enough research and planning you can do for free?
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Old 05-25-2013, 08:47 AM   #779
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Old 05-25-2013, 08:52 AM   #780
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It has been said a hundred times or more, but what still steams me is the idea of Disney declining to engage in a theme park Arms race with Universal.
This is actually the most fascinating part of all of this. It really does appear that Disney believes they incorporation of magic bands can in some way absolve them of needing to answer Universal's RIDE expansion.

To me, the magic band is no different than having a rewards card at Walgreens. I have to use it to get the enticement, so I will. But I don't see it as any sort of value added benefit. After all, I used to get the sale prices without it, and didn't have to dig it out of my purse every time I made a purchase. And I know that it's really just there for them to gather up a bunch of free data about me and my shopping habits.

At least at Walgreens they still give me as many sale prices as they did before implementing the card.
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