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Old 05-24-2013, 02:19 PM   #691
doconeill


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Originally Posted by monorailrabbit View Post
Perhaps there would be a way that these FP+ options aren't actually ACTIVE in the system until your RFID tells the park you there? I hope that makes sense, lol.
The problem is, I could enter the park with just a few minutes before my FP+ expires, and still use it. They shouldn't give it away just because I haven't entered the park before some arbitrary time.

I'm thinking Disney is doing the same old betting that there will be unused FP+s, which will benefit the standby line...
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:22 PM   #692
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Originally Posted by doconeill View Post
Not sure why...they can order tickets and book packages just like anyone else as far as I know.




Magic Your Way is a particular class of ticket, and currently the most common one as it applies to most everyone. But there are a bunch of different classes of tickets that aren't MYW tickets - Annual Passes, YES, Conference, Ultimate (UK), etc...

The T&C doesn't specify anything about other classes of tickets currently. They do say that MYW ticket holders will get the 60 day window. Others could potentially get more or less. It remains to be seen.

The way it looks to be set up, all you will need is a valid ticket associated with your profile. It doesn't need to be a physical ticket in your hand. But if you purchased a physical ticket, there will (presumably, it doesn't exist yet) a way to enter the ticket ID into the web site to get it associated.

I'm predicting that those who have a package associated with their profiles will automatically have the ticket associated as well for the purposes of FP+. Those ordering tickets online for will-call pickup likewise.
Ah, ok, I forgot that they class the other tickets as different versions. I'm sure you'll get access with all of them, though there might be limits on AP usage of FP+.

And yes, even staying offsite I could order tickets direct from Disney and prebook fastpasses 60 days in advance. However, the UK price for tickets is ridiculous, equivalent to almost $400 each (and it includes water parks, which we don't need or want), and we have to save everything we can. Unless you can get US pricing in the UK, but I wouldn't have thought so. I wouldnt mind it if it was only a little more, but it's getting on for $400 more for our family of 4.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:29 PM   #693
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Very interesting thoughts and opinions here.

I hope that these changes improve, or at least maintain, our vacation experience. I fear, after returning from our recent 10 day stay, that it won't be the case. I felt less "magic" this trip from the CMs. The parks seemed overcrowded and stand by lines were quite long most if the time. I left feeling like, for the first time, our vacation was not worth what we spent on it. I hope that reports back, after this goes live, will change my perspective for the better. If not, there is a lot of DCL in my future.

A thought I just had...seems to me that the new system is geared toward the more casual Wdw guest, vs the seasoned pros. How will that change the numbers for those who have been dedicated to Wdw all these years. Will it affect the DVC bottom line? What about the AP profits?
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:40 PM   #694
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Originally Posted by mom2mickeyfan View Post
If only they could come up with a system that only those that are actually in the park could take up places in the FP lines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by monorailrabbit View Post
Perhaps there would be a way that these FP+ options aren't actually ACTIVE in the system until your RFID tells the park you there? I hope that makes sense, lol.
But if they aren't active at what point can Disney "assume" you will not be in the park for your FP+?? My theory is Disney would not be able to give your FP+ away until only a minute or 2 before it expires if you aren't in the park. This would help the SB line but it wouldn't help more people get FP+s for that ride.

What remains to be seen is how will Disney prevent someone like me with a 10 NE ticket and staying off-site from booking FP+s for a full week when I know full well that we will only be visiting for 3 days this year but at 60 days out, I may not fully know which parks I will be going to. So I book FP+s at HS for TSM for 3 different day just in case we decide to go to HS on one of those days instead of another.

Or an AP holder, which they have said will not be left out, from make FP+s at TSM for a holiday weekend on the off chance their family may be able to go to Disney.

Everytime someone figures something out, there is a different path to go down! There just seems to be so many different holes in the plan. I am glad it is people smarter than I trying to figure out this out. To me the current system didn't seem to have so many different things to go wrong.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:49 PM   #695
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Originally Posted by mom2mickeyfan View Post
But if they aren't active at what point can Disney "assume" you will not be in the park for your FP+?? My theory is Disney would not be able to give your FP+ away until only a minute or 2 before it expires if you aren't in the park. This would help the SB line but it wouldn't help more people get FP+s for that ride.

What remains to be seen is how will Disney prevent someone like me with a 10 NE ticket and staying off-site from booking FP+s for a full week when I know full well that we will only be visiting for 3 days this year but at 60 days out, I may not fully know which parks I will be going to. So I book FP+s at HS for TSM for 3 different day just in case we decide to go to HS on one of those days instead of another.

Or an AP holder, which they have said will not be left out, from make FP+s at TSM for a holiday weekend on the off chance their family may be able to go to Disney.

Everytime someone figures something out, there is a different path to go down! There just seems to be so many different holes in the plan. I am glad it is people smarter than I trying to figure out this out. To me the current system didn't seem to have so many different things to go wrong.
That's because it wasn't so complicated. Unfortunately, the more things you add to a system the more it becomes likely to run into a hiccup.

If companies like Sony can lose access to their site for hours and hours with all their money and the fact they are in the tech game themselves, I forsee some down time somewhere. No system is 100% foolproof, every IT system I can think of has had at least an hour of downtime.

No way will this be perfect 100% of the time. It's not possible when dealing with IT. There will always be glitches and bugs, till they get them fixed. How long that will take... who knows.

This is why I think they should really have been further along with testing by now. If they are thinking of doing the first major tests in summer months, I hope they have a damn good team running their website and app. No matter how you feel about the final result, they should be testing by now.

Can you imagine only starting any large scale tests in July and August? The system could collapse under the weight, and any bugs will be magnified over a quieter time. I mean, there is no real quiet time anymore, but at least try and test before the busiest times. It's like testing a new commuter plane for the first time by loading it with 300 passengers and seeing what happens.

We've had some really small scale tests, but nothing that would seem to give enough raw data to extrapolate the effects the full system might have.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:55 PM   #696
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Originally Posted by mom2mickeyfan View Post
But if they aren't active at what point can Disney "assume" you will not be in the park for your FP+?? My theory is Disney would not be able to give your FP+ away until only a minute or 2 before it expires if you aren't in the park. This would help the SB line but it wouldn't help more people get FP+s for that ride.
Speculating a little more wildly than usual here, but it seems that there would have to be an arbitrary time (e.g., 30 minutes prior to your FP+ reservation time) by which your ticket would have to be registered at the turnstile or else you lose your FP+. Then they can send out texts announcing that FP+s have just opened up for [insert attraction] and the first people to snag them with their smartphones can then take advantage of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2mickeyfan View Post
What remains to be seen is how will Disney prevent someone like me with a 10 NE ticket and staying off-site from booking FP+s for a full week when I know full well that we will only be visiting for 3 days this year but at 60 days out, I may not fully know which parks I will be going to. So I book FP+s at HS for TSM for 3 different day just in case we decide to go to HS on one of those days instead of another.
True. If I have a 10-day ticket, they don't know that I have no intention of using all 10 days on this visit. Especially if I were staying offsite. I wonder if it would raise red flags, though, if I am staying onsite for 4 nights. Of course, Disney still doesn't know if I'm doing a split stay (onsite and offsite), so I COULD still be planning to use all 10 days. They just have no way of knowing this.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:57 PM   #697
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I want to reply to everyone's comments, there are some great thoughts and questions out there! I dont multiquote usually, because I find it too hard to do, so I am going to make several quick posts. Hope that is ok. I am going to work backwards a bit, ie. most recent posts first, but there is some great stuff back a couple of pages that I also want to get to.

First
Mom2Mickeyfan, some great points here!

Lets talk about that NE ticket. A couple of months ago, there was a very strong rumour about the NE option going the way of the dodo bird. It was discussed very hotly. I dont think Disney has come out with the new ticket price and structure yet, but its coming soon.

I think your point of system abuse has already been considered by Disney, and this could be a contributing factor to the demise of the NE option (amoungst other things) if that happens.

Also, your point regarding the AP user: I think Disney IS concerned about this, hence the rule of 21 fp per quarter. It will limit that somewhat, but it in itself if very problematic for ap users who like to come for 2 or three weeks at a time, and only really have 1 weeks worth of fp. (unless this rule has been modified lately).

But, yes, lots of logistical problems for sure!
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Old 05-24-2013, 03:02 PM   #698
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Disneymagicgirl

An interesting comment regarding AP users and DVC people. I think Disney is VERY worried about the reception of this new system, because (I THINK) that it IS the Disney Vetran's experience that is going to go down, and the bell curve people's experience is going to go up

I also think that Disney was so concerned about this, that they presold a large number of heavily discounted AP's to DVCers in the fall of last year, for an excellent deal. Many took the bait. Now the new system is close to getting unveiled, and there are many who are nervous and unhappy about it. Good thing Disney sold them that non refundable ticket in oct- nov last year!
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Old 05-24-2013, 03:10 PM   #699
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MagicBob

My thinking is really in line with your thinking. I want to address your concern about EMH and whether FP+ perk will be percieved or of actual value.

I say both. To begin with, it will be of percieved value to the uneducated masses: Hey, HM fast pass at 9:30 am! Cool!

However, when everyone gets 'online' (well, if everyone gets online) then that 9:30am fast pass will be of huge value.

This is going to be both carrot and stick. Nasty standby lines from early in the morning til late at night, at least what we would consider nasty, which Im going to say 20 minutes or more.

So eventually, I think we will all covet our fast passes. That is my speculation on this matter.
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Old 05-24-2013, 03:11 PM   #700
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doggydoc

6 month short term forecast: life is good, transition will be awesome and you will be able to manipulate the system to have a great time

Mid term forecast: its going to be much harder to jump through the hoops and have the easy access to headliners.

Longterm forecast: life is going to suck.

To answer your question: Oh yes, disney will not even glance back at your business doggydoc. They just replaced you with 3,000 new clients who came to disney and had a good time because they were forced to. I dont think Disney will even shed a tear.
Most companies are not thinking long term - which is part of a much bigger problem - short sightedness. Most companies are looking for profits today and this is mostly because it is what is demanded due to shareholders. Shareholders want Disney to make money now - so Disney has to respond to these shareholders and show them how they are making money now.

Customer satisfaction as a whole is important because a happy customer comes back - educated or not. If a Customer comes back, or new Customers are encouraged, by whatever means needed, to spend the majority of their time in WDW - shareholders will be pleased because the company makes money. But it better not take 10 years. It needs to happen now...not cause I say so, but because most large companies worry about shareholders happiness....and shareholders are notoriously shortsighted.

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Old 05-24-2013, 03:23 PM   #701
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MagicBob

My thinking is really in line with your thinking. I want to address your concern about EMH and whether FP+ perk will be percieved or of actual value.

I say both. To begin with, it will be of percieved value to the uneducated masses: Hey, HM fast pass at 9:30 am! Cool!

However, when everyone gets 'online' (well, if everyone gets online) then that 9:30am fast pass will be of huge value.

This is going to be both carrot and stick. Nasty standby lines from early in the morning til late at night, at least what we would consider nasty, which Im going to say 20 minutes or more.

So eventually, I think we will all covet our fast passes. That is my speculation on this matter.
Your scenario is precisely what many of us are concerned about. We will covet those FP+s because they will be rare and without them we will be waiting a lot more than in the past.

For years, we have been able to FP a lot more than three rides. And many rides were only 10-15 minutes even without FP. If FP+ means that we can ONLY get three FPs in a day (meaning we will have to wait in standby lines a lot more than usual) AND those standby lines are LONGER than in the past to boot (since all of the guests who reserved FP+ for these rides that didn't used to be FP will cause standby to be longer), then I don't see how anyone's experience is going to improve.
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Old 05-24-2013, 03:24 PM   #702
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You are right! I do argue both seemingly opposing views! You caught me.

But I think this is the real brilliance of this whole scheme. Both offsite and onsite people will either THINK they are winners, or will react in the way that the Disney Bean counters have figured. On site people will have some advantage, and we will discuss how big later on. regarding off site, here are some thoughts.

First off-
Disney has to make the FP+ a coveted thing. Carrot and stick baby.When it is seen as necessary to have, in order to have a good disney vacation, 3 things will happen to the offsite guest.

1)Off Site Guests may choose to stay onsite if it means more or better FP+'s, sorta the way EMH was used to lure off site people onsite.
2)Offsite guests that have chosen to still stay off site will 'want' to prepurchase their theme park ticket at least 60 days in advance so they can closely compete with onsite guests for FP priviledges. (Something EMH did not provide, a competition to drive up the commodity) Once Disney has locked them into purchasing the tickets, they have locked them into visiting Disney for those number of days, ESPECIALLY if the non-expiring option goes capute. Also, disney gets their money 60 days in advance, nice interest.
3)Once Fast pass options are booked, its even less likely that off site guests will visit or do other things in Orlando, regardless of weather concerns, or whatever.

Will this lure more offsite guests to purchase Disney tickets? I dont know, and I dont think this really matters. I think what the bean counters are figuring on: it will force the off site guest that was planning to spend some days at the bif D do three things - contemplate staying on site, contemplate purchasing 60 days in advance, and then lock them into their plans 60 days before arrival. BRILLIANT FRIGGIN BEANCOUNTERS
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Old 05-24-2013, 03:35 PM   #703
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Hmm, MagicBob and White Rose

I agree with both statements. First off, my speculation is not good for the disney VET under this new system. It wont be as good in some aspects as what it has been, especially long term and if they get 80% or so on board. Long standby lines on the b attractions throughout the day is my biggest concern, and I have talked about it lots in other threads.

However, it will vastly improve the experience for the 70% (just random number guessing here) or regular disney vacation goers. It will be easy, it will be far more fun then they are having now, and it will be an overall positive experience for the vast majority. This is the customer satisfaction area.

Maybe not happy for us though. Or maybe we will figure out loop holes, or exceptions or whatever that we can still maximize our time, just do it differently then what we are doing now. Also, there is other aspects of this system that make be a positive impact on our disney vacation, that negates or equalizes the extra line waiting. How this system really effects us tomorrow or next trip, well, we wont know until we see it operate live.

Regarding long and short term Business. Disney is a lonnnnnnngggg term planner. This project has been in the works for at least a decade. Things have been changing at disney in the last 6 years to accommodate these changes, things like wifi in the parks, online dining ressies, ect.... they have a master plan. Yes, they want to see short term profits, and guess what? they have already started getting them. those RFID hotel key cards are the casino chips Disney has been salivating after. What would make them even happier? Casino chips for the off site people.

al
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Old 05-24-2013, 03:43 PM   #704
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However, it will vastly improve the experience for the 70% (just random number guessing here) or regular disney vacation goers. It will be easy, it will be far more fun then they are having now, and it will be an overall positive experience for the vast majority. This is the customer satisfaction area.
I'm not sure that it actually WILL improve the experience for that 70%. The longer standby lines will affect them just as they do the veteran guest. They may not have a frame of reference to know that things USED to be better (assuming that is the case). But it's still a gamble whether the average guest's PERCEPTION is that those three FP+s made their visit so much better. One of the biggest complaints that ANY guest has is long lines. If lines get even longer, won't that likely mean all guests will be unhappy? Will those three FP+s outweigh the negative experience of waiting in long lines, even for rides that are not as impressive as the headliners?
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:01 PM   #705
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