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Old 05-19-2013, 02:58 PM   #91
Nigel Channing
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You stop it by allowing only one person to go with the disabled guest. If there are more people in the party that want to ride with them then the disabled guest waits until the rest of the party goes through the regular line.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:51 PM   #92
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Recent talk of a massive Guest With Disabilities policies overhaul. Rumor is Disney plans to employ a USF style system.
Grab a cold drink and some popcorn, and find a comfy seat inside Guest Relations. The entertainment is coming.
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:42 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel Channing View Post
You stop it by allowing only one person to go with the disabled guest. If there are more people in the party that want to ride with them then the disabled guest waits until the rest of the party goes through the regular line.
Don't you think Disney had already tried that?

Do you have a person with a disability in your family? Do you want to be separated from them every time you want to access an attraction. If there are kids, it means you and your spouse NEVER get to be together, if you make the limit two. What kind of family vacation is that?

Tell you what, I will do this if you do this too. And every able-bodied family. Every able bodied family will decide which one or two of its members do not get to spend time with the family but must wait alone in a separate place, to hopefully be reunited with your party when it comes time to ride. Oh, you don't want to be separated? Because you don't "have" to? How do you think I feel?

What if it is a party of two. Since, by law, I as a disabled person must be allowed one companion, who is waiting in line for me? You cannot, by law, make me wait alone, so now what?

So, when my wife and I have a child, how does that work? I wait alone? What happens when I tell you I cannot wait alone - I need someone with me for health and safety reasons. So now my wife and minor child have to wait with me. Now I tell you that my wife and I have 3 minor children. I still cannot wait alone. Now 5 of us are sitting there. What about when there are 3 of us with disabilities in a group? Do each of us get a person? My wife and I plan to adopt children with disabilities. So do you want all of us to wait wherever this mythical place is we are waiting, with our likely 2-3 kids with disabilities? What if there is no able bodied member of the group?

Oh, and to make it an equal experience, you get to wait with me. With your one person.

And these are just the problems I came up with at 330 in the morning with no legal training.

If you had bothered to read ANY article refuting the garbage in the original post, then you would know that most lines in Disney are mainstreamed, meaning that people with disabilities wait with everyone else, just like you. Only at older rides, where it is not ADA compliant, do we sometimes access the ride differently.

See, you may see us getting on the ride through the exit, and see me already in my car on Buzz Lightyear as I move past the regular loading area.
What you obviously do not know is that I have already waited in the standby line for Buzz Lightyear, just like you, and then, when we get to the boarding area, I go through another door to wait in ANOTHER line. You see, only so many people with disabilities are allowed on the ride at a time for safety reasons (for most rides the number allowed is 2, maybe 3). So after I have waited "like everyone else" without having to separate my family, as you suggested, I get to wait AGAIN. So when you see a person already in a ride car at a ride like Buzz Lightyear, please know that I have already waited in line. Twice. Sometimes, I get to wait 3 times.

Oh yeah, and when I am traveling with someone else in a wheelchair, we usually cannot ride as a group or even as a family because of that limit. So someday, when my wife and I adopt a child in a wheelchair, I will have to put them on the ride with my wife and never ride with them. I will never get to see my child's face light up on a ride for many rides, because I am disabled too.

If you go to Disneyland ever, I invite you to tour the parks with me. It is obvious that you have not traveled with someone with a permanent disability, so perhaps this would be an enlightening experience for you.
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Old 05-20-2013, 06:23 AM   #94
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[QUOTE=Nigel Channing;48442287]You stop it by allowing only one person to go with the disabled guest. If there are more people in the party that want to ride with them then the disabled guest waits until the rest of the party goes through the regular line.[/QUOTEI

I absolutely couldn't agree more.
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Old 05-20-2013, 06:27 AM   #95
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[QUOTE=spidet1964;48447083]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel Channing View Post
You stop it by allowing only one person to go with the disabled guest. If there are more people in the party that want to ride with them then the disabled guest waits until the rest of the party goes through the regular line.[/QUOTEI

I absolutely couldn't agree more.
Read my post directly above to see why this does not work. And is illegal in many cases.
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:05 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KPeveler View Post
Don't you think Disney had already tried that?

Do you have a person with a disability in your family? Do you want to be separated from them every time you want to access an attraction. If there are kids, it means you and your spouse NEVER get to be together, if you make the limit two. What kind of family vacation is that?

Tell you what, I will do this if you do this too. And every able-bodied family. Every able bodied family will decide which one or two of its members do not get to spend time with the family but must wait alone in a separate place, to hopefully be reunited with your party when it comes time to ride. Oh, you don't want to be separated? Because you don't "have" to? How do you think I feel?

What if it is a party of two. Since, by law, I as a disabled person must be allowed one companion, who is waiting in line for me? You cannot, by law, make me wait alone, so now what?

So, when my wife and I have a child, how does that work? I wait alone? What happens when I tell you I cannot wait alone - I need someone with me for health and safety reasons. So now my wife and minor child have to wait with me. Now I tell you that my wife and I have 3 minor children. I still cannot wait alone. Now 5 of us are sitting there. What about when there are 3 of us with disabilities in a group? Do each of us get a person? My wife and I plan to adopt children with disabilities. So do you want all of us to wait wherever this mythical place is we are waiting, with our likely 2-3 kids with disabilities? What if there is no able bodied member of the group?

Oh, and to make it an equal experience, you get to wait with me. With your one person.

And these are just the problems I came up with at 330 in the morning with no legal training.

If you had bothered to read ANY article refuting the garbage in the original post, then you would know that most lines in Disney are mainstreamed, meaning that people with disabilities wait with everyone else, just like you. Only at older rides, where it is not ADA compliant, do we sometimes access the ride differently.

See, you may see us getting on the ride through the exit, and see me already in my car on Buzz Lightyear as I move past the regular loading area.
What you obviously do not know is that I have already waited in the standby line for Buzz Lightyear, just like you, and then, when we get to the boarding area, I go through another door to wait in ANOTHER line. You see, only so many people with disabilities are allowed on the ride at a time for safety reasons (for most rides the number allowed is 2, maybe 3). So after I have waited "like everyone else" without having to separate my family, as you suggested, I get to wait AGAIN. So when you see a person already in a ride car at a ride like Buzz Lightyear, please know that I have already waited in line. Twice. Sometimes, I get to wait 3 times.

Oh yeah, and when I am traveling with someone else in a wheelchair, we usually cannot ride as a group or even as a family because of that limit. So someday, when my wife and I adopt a child in a wheelchair, I will have to put them on the ride with my wife and never ride with them. I will never get to see my child's face light up on a ride for many rides, because I am disabled too.

If you go to Disneyland ever, I invite you to tour the parks with me. It is obvious that you have not traveled with someone with a permanent disability, so perhaps this would be an enlightening experience for you.

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Old 05-23-2013, 11:19 PM   #97
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[QUOTE=spidet1964;48447083]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel Channing View Post
You stop it by allowing only one person to go with the disabled guest. If there are more people in the party that want to ride with them then the disabled guest waits until the rest of the party goes through the regular line.[/QUOTEI

I absolutely couldn't agree more.
It amazes me how narrow minded and ignorant people can be when giving an opinion on a subject they themselves have no personal experience with or legal knowledge about.

You obviously are entitled to your opinions just as I am entitled to have a reaction to those comments.

I just wish that people like you would have to spend one day as a special needs individual or a family member of a special needs individual. Their world has so many more extreme daily challenges than a typical person experiences. I guarantee, if you experienced being in their shoes, you wouldn't respond in the way that you did.
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:40 PM   #98
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[QUOTE=bocaj1431;48485548]
Quote:
Originally Posted by spidet1964 View Post

It amazes me how narrow minded and ignorant people can be when giving an opinion on a subject they themselves have no personal experience with or legal knowledge about.

You obviously are entitled to your opinions just as I am entitled to have a reaction to those comments.

I just wish that people like you would have to spend one day as a special needs individual or a family member of a special needs individual. Their world has so many more extreme daily challenges than a typical person experiences. I guarantee, if you experienced being in their shoes, you wouldn't respond in the way that you did.
Agree. BTW, I never accept the "well, my uncle is in a wheelchair" unless you have toured Disney with that uncle, or live/work with him day to day. Simply knowing a person in a wheelchair is similar to me saying I know a person from India (which I do) and therefore I know all about Indian culture and the life Indian immigrants face in America (which obviously I do not).

Do people reading this thread know that there is a such thing as Disability Culture. Yes, we have our own culture, our own words and slang, clubs, sports leagues, even our own Olympics - both community Special Olympics and the Paralympics (if you do not know the difference between them, please educate yourself before commenting on how people with disabilities should be "handled" in Disney.)

What many of the people on this thread/board do not realize is that while you may encounter more people with disabilities in Disney than your average life (this is due to the accessibility and inclusive nature of Disney), we are still disabled when we get home. What you here refer to as "Disney policy" is, in fact, "Federal Law." The ADA and its Addendum Act passed in 1990 and 2010 (respectively) are about the country actually including us in daily life. And that even includes Disney.

Do you have any idea how long we have been discriminated against, both actively and passively, just in this country? Did you know that people with disabilities of all type were forcibly sterilized (which for males often involved full castration, not a vasectomy) while institutionalized? Did you know that happened until the 1980s in some states? And that it was not illegal?

Do you know what it is like to have strangers tell me that it is wrong/irresponsible/an offense against God/etc to have children, because I use a wheelchair?

Do you have strangers ask you every day "what is wrong with you?" (btw, there is nothing "wrong" with me, thank you)

Did you know there is a word for many people in this thread (I have not read every post, but I have read enough)? It is called "ableist." It is when a person is prejudiced against or discriminates against (those are two different things) those with disabilities. Just as racism was acceptable for so long, ableism is still acceptable in many ways.

No, we do not get "preferred treatment" at Disney, though to the uninformed, it may seem so. What we get is "equal access." Even if it seems like we "skipped the line" remember, we almost always waited in that line, then got to wait in separate one. And perhaps learn a little something about Disability Culture. Or at least the legal situation before commenting in ignorance.
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:24 AM   #99
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To add on to what Katy has described. I have multiple disabilities. Some of them clearly affect my life and abilities. However I am able to handle them with some medications and equipment.

I am willing to go out on a limb and state that over 50% of the people living in the United States have at least one disability which is correctable. If you don't believe me, throw away your glasses or contact lenses. Yes, imperfect vision is a disability.
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:36 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheshire Figment View Post
To add on to what Katy has described. I have multiple disabilities. Some of them clearly affect my life and abilities. However I am able to handle them with some medications and equipment.

I am willing to go out on a limb and state that over 50% of the people living in the United States have at least one disability which is correctable. If you don't believe me, throw away your glasses or contact lenses. Yes, imperfect vision is a disability.
Tell me about it...
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:42 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheshire Figment View Post
To add on to what Katy has described. I have multiple disabilities. Some of them clearly affect my life and abilities. However I am able to handle them with some medications and equipment.

I am willing to go out on a limb and state that over 50% of the people living in the United States have at least one disability which is correctable. If you don't believe me, throw away your glasses or contact lenses. Yes, imperfect vision is a disability.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:16 AM   #102
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By far one of the strongest posts I've read on the site altogether. This is why I'm in favor of better ADA access, not more restricted ADA access. It frustrates me to know that anyone who does not require the access is taking advantage of it. Less because I'm worried about what it means for "my place in line" and more because I think it's unfair to people who legitimately need the access who are waiting longer, or worse, who are being looked upon with frustration.

I'm glad that Disney has mainstreamed most of their lines. With all of the interactive elements they've been adding to the queues, I'd hate to think that someone would miss it because they have to be segregated into another line.

Everybody should be able to enjoy Disney to the fullest. Getting frustrated in line for any reason misses the point. You're on vacation in one of the happiest destinations available, be happy and let everyone else worry about themselves.

I make it a policy to adopt the Disney spirit while I'm there. It'd be great if everyone did. Be happy and leave everyone else to their own happiness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KPeveler View Post
Don't you think Disney had already tried that?

Do you have a person with a disability in your family? Do you want to be separated from them every time you want to access an attraction. If there are kids, it means you and your spouse NEVER get to be together, if you make the limit two. What kind of family vacation is that?

Tell you what, I will do this if you do this too. And every able-bodied family. Every able bodied family will decide which one or two of its members do not get to spend time with the family but must wait alone in a separate place, to hopefully be reunited with your party when it comes time to ride. Oh, you don't want to be separated? Because you don't "have" to? How do you think I feel?

What if it is a party of two. Since, by law, I as a disabled person must be allowed one companion, who is waiting in line for me? You cannot, by law, make me wait alone, so now what?

So, when my wife and I have a child, how does that work? I wait alone? What happens when I tell you I cannot wait alone - I need someone with me for health and safety reasons. So now my wife and minor child have to wait with me. Now I tell you that my wife and I have 3 minor children. I still cannot wait alone. Now 5 of us are sitting there. What about when there are 3 of us with disabilities in a group? Do each of us get a person? My wife and I plan to adopt children with disabilities. So do you want all of us to wait wherever this mythical place is we are waiting, with our likely 2-3 kids with disabilities? What if there is no able bodied member of the group?

Oh, and to make it an equal experience, you get to wait with me. With your one person.

And these are just the problems I came up with at 330 in the morning with no legal training.

If you had bothered to read ANY article refuting the garbage in the original post, then you would know that most lines in Disney are mainstreamed, meaning that people with disabilities wait with everyone else, just like you. Only at older rides, where it is not ADA compliant, do we sometimes access the ride differently.

See, you may see us getting on the ride through the exit, and see me already in my car on Buzz Lightyear as I move past the regular loading area.
What you obviously do not know is that I have already waited in the standby line for Buzz Lightyear, just like you, and then, when we get to the boarding area, I go through another door to wait in ANOTHER line. You see, only so many people with disabilities are allowed on the ride at a time for safety reasons (for most rides the number allowed is 2, maybe 3). So after I have waited "like everyone else" without having to separate my family, as you suggested, I get to wait AGAIN. So when you see a person already in a ride car at a ride like Buzz Lightyear, please know that I have already waited in line. Twice. Sometimes, I get to wait 3 times.

Oh yeah, and when I am traveling with someone else in a wheelchair, we usually cannot ride as a group or even as a family because of that limit. So someday, when my wife and I adopt a child in a wheelchair, I will have to put them on the ride with my wife and never ride with them. I will never get to see my child's face light up on a ride for many rides, because I am disabled too.

If you go to Disneyland ever, I invite you to tour the parks with me. It is obvious that you have not traveled with someone with a permanent disability, so perhaps this would be an enlightening experience for you.
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:29 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KPeveler View Post
Don't you think Disney had already tried that?

Do you have a person with a disability in your family? Do you want to be separated from them every time you want to access an attraction. If there are kids, it means you and your spouse NEVER get to be together, if you make the limit two. What kind of family vacation is that?

Tell you what, I will do this if you do this too. And every able-bodied family. Every able bodied family will decide which one or two of its members do not get to spend time with the family but must wait alone in a separate place, to hopefully be reunited with your party when it comes time to ride. Oh, you don't want to be separated? Because you don't "have" to? How do you think I feel?

What if it is a party of two. Since, by law, I as a disabled person must be allowed one companion, who is waiting in line for me? You cannot, by law, make me wait alone, so now what?

So, when my wife and I have a child, how does that work? I wait alone? What happens when I tell you I cannot wait alone - I need someone with me for health and safety reasons. So now my wife and minor child have to wait with me. Now I tell you that my wife and I have 3 minor children. I still cannot wait alone. Now 5 of us are sitting there. What about when there are 3 of us with disabilities in a group? Do each of us get a person? My wife and I plan to adopt children with disabilities. So do you want all of us to wait wherever this mythical place is we are waiting, with our likely 2-3 kids with disabilities? What if there is no able bodied member of the group?

Oh, and to make it an equal experience, you get to wait with me. With your one person.

And these are just the problems I came up with at 330 in the morning with no legal training.

If you had bothered to read ANY article refuting the garbage in the original post, then you would know that most lines in Disney are mainstreamed, meaning that people with disabilities wait with everyone else, just like you. Only at older rides, where it is not ADA compliant, do we sometimes access the ride differently.

See, you may see us getting on the ride through the exit, and see me already in my car on Buzz Lightyear as I move past the regular loading area.
What you obviously do not know is that I have already waited in the standby line for Buzz Lightyear, just like you, and then, when we get to the boarding area, I go through another door to wait in ANOTHER line. You see, only so many people with disabilities are allowed on the ride at a time for safety reasons (for most rides the number allowed is 2, maybe 3). So after I have waited "like everyone else" without having to separate my family, as you suggested, I get to wait AGAIN. So when you see a person already in a ride car at a ride like Buzz Lightyear, please know that I have already waited in line. Twice. Sometimes, I get to wait 3 times.

Oh yeah, and when I am traveling with someone else in a wheelchair, we usually cannot ride as a group or even as a family because of that limit. So someday, when my wife and I adopt a child in a wheelchair, I will have to put them on the ride with my wife and never ride with them. I will never get to see my child's face light up on a ride for many rides, because I am disabled too.

If you go to Disneyland ever, I invite you to tour the parks with me. It is obvious that you have not traveled with someone with a permanent disability, so perhaps this would be an enlightening experience for you.
Wow, I kind of feel sorry for Nigel after that, but I can't argue with any of the points you've made.

As I said before, I don't see what kind of significant advantage these "1% moms" really got for their $120/hour "tour guide". The statement about getting onto It's A Small World in a minute when other people where waiting in line for 2-1/2 hours is just laughable. Everyone who uses this website must have read that and had a giant red flag go up because neither part of that statement can be remotely true.

Either the woman who was qouted was lying or the author of the book the article got the information from was lying. That story is just fantasy.

I think those people who spent $120/hr probably got ripped off and were not even bright enough to realize it.
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Old 05-24-2013, 01:55 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by jimsanfilippo View Post
As I said before, I don't see what kind of significant advantage these "1% moms" really got for their $120/hour "tour guide". The statement about getting onto It's A Small World in a minute when other people where waiting in line for 2-1/2 hours is just laughable. Everyone who uses this website must have read that and had a giant red flag go up because neither part of that statement can be remotely true.
But I also read it and realized we're talking the Real Real Housewives of NYC here, and they are completely exaggerating things. They could still have gotten an advantage, just not as extreme as they claim.

As I've posted before, from my own experience, there _can_ be some advantages gained at some attractions (although at least once case has since been changed), and not at others - although even in those cases there can still be a perceived advantage (we waited a LONG time at TSM - but the people in the regular line see a short line, and have no idea how long we were in it.)

Unfortunately, fixing perception is the hardest thing to do. And this bad press, real or fake, just makes it worse.
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:08 AM   #105
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Today Show

Like many of you, I saw the inconsistencies in the original story, and thought it was "urban-legendy".

This report on the Today show is rather disturbing though.

http://www.today.com/news/undercover...nes-6C10131266
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