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Old 05-24-2013, 09:09 AM   #376
rhorsley
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Originally Posted by Majik View Post
Disney Fantasy??????
\

Sorry, My bad...we are traveling on the Fantasy next year and it's been on my brain...meant Dream
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:13 AM   #377
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I am getting something different from this. The way I read this statue, it regards required contact with DCF, not police. Now, granted, prior to this statue...if you suspect child abuse you were not required to call police. However, in this case the reporters were the grandmother and child. And DCL didn't have to suspect, they were told outright. The family reported to the only authorities they knew. Now, I suppose you could argue that guest services could have just told them they needed to call 911 from a ship's phone (can they do that?) But this would be the similar to saying a child from a foreign country, staying at a hotel, reports to the front desk with a family member to report alleged abuse from a hotel employee (now a report has been made to the only authority the family knows) and is told, OK the hotel will investigate it. That hotel representative needs to either 1. Call 911 him/herself or 2. Show the family how they can report the crime to the proper authorities themselves. It is not up to the hotel staff to solely investigate the validity of the girl's claim. Not in port at least.
Reporting a potential crime to security and allowing security to handle when to contact police is protocol in many places, including ships, my office, and the mall when I worked there. It's probably true at theme parks as well, not just Disney. Cops in my college town wouldn't respond without working in conjunction with campus security.

The law is different now, but technically at the time the report was treated procedurally like any other possible crime committed on board. A report of a theft, physical assault (fist fight), etc would all have been handled by notifying security and starting an investigation.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:32 AM   #378
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I love Disney! My husband flat out refuses to go on another Disney cruise (although I did get him to go recently because his brother and his family were going) because we have "done it enough!" But my girls and I love Disney and love cruising so DCL is a match made in heaven. We do have an interest in other lines (I loved my RCI cruise without the kids), but not hearing Disney music while walking down a hallway would just be weird. I love Disney and I trust(ed) Disney to take care of me and my family. I personally convinced 5 different families to cruise DCL with me.

That said, none of us who have posted are experts with extensive knowledge about how any of this works. Were the CMs required by local, state or Federal law to report immediately? Not sure. I really don't care what their requirements were. This was against a little girl who needed immediate attention who will probably never get help after the fact.

"Disney Cruise Line at first claimed last week it did report the crime while the ship was still in port on Aug. 5. Then, after being told by Local 6 and Port Canaveral police that was not true, the cruise line changed its account. Company officials then claimed employees did not know until the next day that a crime was committed. All they knew on Aug. 5, they claim, was that the child was made to feel “uncomfortable,” according to statements by the cruise line to both Local 6 and the Port Canaveral police." http://www.clickorlando.com/news/dis...z/-/index.html

I feel it should have been reported while in port, whether they were legally obligated to or not.
I feel they failed in their duty to their customers because they didn't.
I feel they took way too long in separating their employee from the passengers. It looks like they waited until after his first shift in the dining room, but I don't know he actually worked his shift as a fact, just that the timing suggests it.
I feel if the child had been a US citizen, they would have reported it right away. I feel this way for a variety of reasons.
I feel it wasn't reported right away because there was less of a chance that it would become public.
I feel they tried to cover it up from the public and continued to do so even after it started coming out.
I am happy that steps are continuing to be made by Florida law enforcement and attorneys to hold cruise lines accountable for reporting crimes.
I am NOT happy with DCL right now and I don't think they will make any public statements unless forced to do so.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:33 AM   #379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ash-n-brensmom View Post
Beyond the debate of what was wrong or handled inappropriately in this case...
I was just wondering if anyone on here has taken the time to write to DCL regarding their feelings on this incident?

DH and I are planning on taking our girls on The Dream in Oct. After reading this, I cannot say I don't have any reservations regarding DCL. Please, not trying to start a debate about how I love or don't love, trust or don't trust DCL any longer....

DH suggested I call DCL and talk to them about it...but I think a letter via email would be better because I wouldn't be speaking to a reservation's agent and I could keep a clear head and be succinct and precise.

That being said....has anyone else taken this route?

Would like to here how you worded your communication.
I've been following this thread since page one. There have been some very passionate posts on the topic, as one would hope and expect.

But I agree with this poster. If you feel the situation was handled incorrectly or you worry about your/your family's safety and well being on a future sailing, then do something about it. Contact Disney Cruise Line about their policies. Contact a legislator about protecting people in US ports. Talk to your family about how dangers exist, even on a Disney cruise.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:43 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by honeymo78 View Post

DCL legitimately may have believed the man would have been charged in the Bahamas and face punishment if convicted. And there is no guarantee that the outcome would have been any different (not being free) had he been arrested in the US. We like to think that criminals are properly punished here but reality is that there may have been no prosecution at all if the victim refused to cooperate, or he may have been able to plead to a lesser charge and ended up back in India anyway.
The decision as to what jurisdiction to report was not up to DCL. They delayed reporting it to any authority for almost a full day. It doesn't matter what DCL thought the Bahamas would do.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:55 AM   #381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honeymo78 View Post
Reporting a potential crime to security and allowing security to handle when to contact police is protocol in many places, including ships, my office, and the mall when I worked there. It's probably true at theme parks as well, not just Disney. Cops in my college town wouldn't respond without working in conjunction with campus security.

The law is different now, but technically at the time the report was treated procedurally like any other possible crime committed on board. A report of a theft, physical assault (fist fight), etc would all have been handled by notifying security and starting an investigation.
It has been my experience, that it is fine for one security team to work in tandem with another (in fact, it can expedite things) However, when private law enforcement fails to report a sexual misconduct crime against a minor to the police/CPS they are 1. breaking the law and 2. opening themselves up to a ton of lawsuits.

https://www.childwelfare.gov/systemw...utes/manda.pdf

Current through August 2012:
(page 17)
Florida
Professionals Required to Report
Ann. Stat. § 39.201
The following persons are mandated reporters:
• Physicians, osteopaths, medical examiners, chiropractors, nurses, or hospital personnel
• Other health or mental health professionals
• Practitioners who rely solely on spiritual means for healing
• Teachers or other school officials or personnel
• Social workers, daycare center workers, or other professional child care, foster care, residential, or institutional
workers
Law enforcement officers or judges (security personnel with arrest capabilities are considered "Law Enforcement.")
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:55 AM   #382
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Dcl

Quote:
Originally Posted by ash-n-brensmom View Post
Beyond the debate of what was wrong or handled inappropriately in this case...
I was just wondering if anyone on here has taken the time to write to DCL regarding their feelings on this incident?

DH and I are planning on taking our girls on The Dream in Oct. After reading this, I cannot say I don't have any reservations regarding DCL. Please, not trying to start a debate about how I love or don't love, trust or don't trust DCL any longer....

DH suggested I call DCL and talk to them about it...but I think a letter via email would be better because I wouldn't be speaking to a reservation's agent and I could keep a clear head and be succinct and precise.

That being said....has anyone else taken this route?

Would like to here how you worded your communication.
DCL has read very thing said hear. Its the only reason this still going on. HO if you are going to write, be sure to write every employer in the world that has employees that come in contact with chrildren. Since this activity has been going on since recorded history started good luck, all we can do is be vigligent of our chrildren and others as I am sure Dinsey is doing. We do not live in a perfect world.
Thank god for the Grandmother and her clear thinking about the effect on the child first. I know too many want this to be on Nacey Grace show and go on for ever but most do not think what is best for child.

PS have 11yr old Granddaughter been on Magic, and only rule family had was she could not return to statroom un attended.

I have been a Disney person from 1954, over the years have read and heard of many tragic stories about events at Disney Properities. Including the worst chrildren being killed.

So step back take a deep breath think about how many people are on Disney Properties each day. They are part of the world we live in nothing excludes them from these type of events no matter how hard they may try.
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:08 AM   #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhorsley View Post
It has been my experience, that it is fine for one security team to work in tandem with another (in fact, it can expedite things) However, when private law enforcement fails to report a sexual misconduct crime against a minor to the police/CPS they are 1. breaking the law and 2. opening themselves up to a ton of lawsuits.

https://www.childwelfare.gov/systemw...utes/manda.pdf

Current through August 2012:
(page 17)
Florida
Professionals Required to Report
Ann. Stat. § 39.201
The following persons are mandated reporters:
• Physicians, osteopaths, medical examiners, chiropractors, nurses, or hospital personnel
• Other health or mental health professionals
• Practitioners who rely solely on spiritual means for healing
• Teachers or other school officials or personnel
• Social workers, daycare center workers, or other professional child care, foster care, residential, or institutional
workers
Law enforcement officers or judges (security personnel with arrest capabilities are considered "Law Enforcement.")


They DID report it to law enforcement - in the Bahamas AND the US.
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:08 AM   #384
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Time Line

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wadekind View Post
The decision as to what jurisdiction to report was not up to DCL. They delayed reporting it to any authority for almost a full day. It doesn't matter what DCL thought the Bahamas would do.
So the individual was interviewed by security at 7:00 so you would have 4000 peoples vactions including the gril who was assulted ruined return ship to PC. First you need to get facts in order, Security did excellent job. The ship had sailed by the time they had the employee ID.
As a US tax payer Thank You Disney. Think about what PC Police said he would serve 25 years in us jail. Thats a couple of million dollars.
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:14 AM   #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhorsley View Post

It has been my experience, that it is fine for one security team to work in tandem with another (in fact, it can expedite things) However, when private law enforcement fails to report a sexual misconduct crime against a minor to the police/CPS they are 1. breaking the law and 2. opening themselves up to a ton of lawsuits.

https://www.childwelfare.gov/systemw...utes/manda.pdf

Current through August 2012:
(page 17)
Florida
Professionals Required to Report
Ann. Stat. § 39.201
The following persons are mandated reporters:
• Physicians, osteopaths, medical examiners, chiropractors, nurses, or hospital personnel
• Other health or mental health professionals
• Practitioners who rely solely on spiritual means for healing
• Teachers or other school officials or personnel
• Social workers, daycare center workers, or other professional child care, foster care, residential, or institutional
workers
• Law enforcement officers or judges (security personnel with arrest capabilities are considered "Law Enforcement.")
Are you sure Disney security has the power to arrest someone in the US or even anywhere? I think they can detain someone but detaining is not the same as arresting.
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:16 AM   #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beermam42 View Post
So the individual was interviewed by security at 7:00 so you would have 4000 peoples vactions including the gril who was assulted ruined return ship to PC. First you need to get facts in order, Security did excellent job. The ship had sailed by the time they had the employee ID.
As a US tax payer Thank You Disney. Think about what PC Police said he would serve 25 years in us jail. Thats a couple of million dollars.
Again, they actually had a positive identification at 4:48. They didn't bring him in for questioning until 7:50, 3 hours later.
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:20 AM   #387
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My problem is that Disney paid to remove the man from authorities. Ridiculous. They could have detained him in the Brig and handed him over to legal authorities for a proper investigation. They overstepped their boundaries and legal jurisdiction. Disney cannot be the sole judge of whether an accused should be deported or avoid prosecution. Shame on them.
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:30 AM   #388
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A lot of shade tree lawyers posting here and I include myself in that category. I was on the debate team in college and I tend to rely on facts and what is known. Much of what has been posted is pure speculation and assumption. Some of it may in fact turn out to be true but right now we don't know. What don't we know? Off the top of my head:

1. Did the child speak English? And yes, it matters!
2. What exactly did the perp confess doing?
3. Why was the tape altered?
4. Who tipped the reporter? Disgruntled employee?
5. What happened during the emergency drill right in the middle of the reporting?
6. Did the grandparents recant when DCL security said the were going to call law enforcement?
7. Is the child credible? (I say this as a parent of a special needs child who used to spin wild tales)
8. Why didn't the FL state attorney press charges aging DCL?
9. Why has this story not made national news?
10. What did the Captain know and when did he know it? He authorizes the ship to leave.
11. Did some wanna-be security officer decide to play Columbo and solve the crime before reporting to the Captain?
12. What does the law say about how quickly a crime must be reported?
13. Was there ever other incidents or reports on this CM?

There are many more unanswered questions. I choose to hold judgement until more facts are known and hold Disney innocent until proven guilty.
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:35 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by honeymo78 View Post
DCL legitimately may have believed the man would have been charged in the Bahamas and face punishment if convicted. And there is no guarantee that the outcome would have been any different (not being free) had he been arrested in the US. We like to think that criminals are properly punished here but reality is that there may have been no prosecution at all if the victim refused to cooperate, or he may have been able to plead to a lesser charge and ended up back in India anyway.
that's a load of garbage....we just had a major, major incident of child abuse at a prominent university by a former well known defensive coordinator of a national championship program that made huge headlines worldwide- Penn State...

as far as the victim refusing to cooperate- if they had any DNA plus a video that may be enough- i'm not a lawyer...

if Disney knew who the perpetrator was before they left US and let the Bahamanian authorities handle the situation, shame on Disney!!!
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:37 AM   #390
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I think it is great to let them know how you feel. I did on the phone. I also let some friends I know that work there what I think. They are in positions to pass on that info to people that may care. From comments I see (around the internet) people have been calling and asking about background checks, child care, the incident-so maybe they will take notice. Hopefully they are not just hoping for it to go away. Disney-let people (your fans) know you care and will report these types of things in the future if you are required by law to. If not it just causes doubts that they did ignore the law or tried to keep the grandmother quiet. Hopefully it was a just a bad mistake on their part. If so-state that!
can i ask what kind of response you received?? was it usual company line talking points?? or did they genuinely seem concerned or even fearful??
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